Does it Sound Like the Starter Relay is Failing?

[Werolin]

I have a '97 3rd Gen 4Runner, and occasionally (somewhat rare, and somewhat recently) I will turn the key and nothing happens, other than maybe a single click. I'll take the key out and try again and it turns over and starts. The problem appears to be happening a little more frequently... until today when it wouldn't start. I thought for sure that the starter motor was failing, or had failed. I gave it a whack with a hammer, and it still wouldn't turn over. So, I figured the starter motor died.

I watched my man Toyota Timmy the the Toolman's starter video to see what I was getting into, and man, that looks like a less than delightful job to replace the starter. So, I kept searching the threads here and through Google, and saw people mention the starter relay could be the culprit, with one guy mentioning using a jumper wire, so I thought I would check it out. Put my Fluke on pins 1 and 2 of the starter relay and had continuity. No other pin combination gave me anything. Then I clipped some alligator clip leads to 1 and 2, and then touched the battery terminals and the relay clicked, and now I had power on pins 3 and 5, as I should if the relay is working properly. I put it back in and nothing; I turn the key, get a click, but the starter motor doesn't turn. So, I made a little jumper wire and as soon as I touched the female end of pins 3 and 5 in the fuse box the starter motor turned. I put the key in the ignition and turned it and tried the wire again and the car started. I turned it off and put the starter relay back in and it started normally.

I ordered a new relay, and hope this resolves the issue. However, because it had been an intermittent thing where it wasn't starting I have to wonder if I'm just luckily in the "it works normally" phase of the intermittent thing, and maybe it's not the relay. I'll get the new relay on Friday, but wanted to ask the pros what you guys think?

Does my long-winded babble sound like it could be the starter relay? The relay seemed to test okay, but I'm pretty green at my testing procedures. Continuity on pins 1 and 2 on the relay, and then when given power it clicks and now I have power on pins 3 and 5, so I would think that the relay is working properly. Could I just be on the good side of the intermittent thing, or is there something else I can test or check? Thanks in advance for any tips, suggestions, or thoughts!

 

[heat]

Most commonly, solenoid contacts burn out.

 

[brillo_76]

If its not the starter or solenoid contacts . If everything else on the ignition system is checking out perfect. I replaced a starter once and my rig still intermittent no starting. In my instance, it was the ignition switch contacts on the back on the key. One where just warn just enough in the start position was hit and miss.

May not be your issue but I feel it's worth mentioning on a no start thread.

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[Bad Luck]

If you are getting a click when you turn the key to start, but the starter isn’t working then the starter relay is sending power to the starter, but the starter contacts are too worn to spin the starter over

 

[jgue467]

Yup as others said, Click no start, click start = starter contacts.

They're less than $20 for a kit, heck just flipping the two existing around might work...

 

[Werolin]

Thanks, heat! Being an intermittent problem I was afraid that maybe I'm just in the "it works normally" phase, and the relay isn't the culprit. I will look into replacing the solenoid contacts. This is exactly why I created this post. Thanks again!

 

[Werolin]

Right on, Brillo 76. I don't want to be satisfied with "it works now" when it has been intermittent. I'm probably going to go ahead and replace the solenoid contacts, as I'd hate to get stranded somewhere if I can't get it to start. I am still going to replace the starter relay, though. Thanks for the post!

 

[Werolin]

If you are getting a click when you turn the key to start, but the starter isn’t working then the starter relay is sending power to the starter, but the starter contacts are too worn to spin the starter over

Right on, thanks! I'm not entirely sure about the click, as it's not like the chattering click you get when you try to start a car with a partially dead battery. It does seem like I did hear a single click when I'd turn the key to the start position, that I'm not sure I'd be able to hear the relay contact make while sitting in the truck. I really am green at troubleshooting, but it seemed like the relay is functioning properly, as it would click when I'd apply power to pins 1 and 2, and after relay contact is closed (I assume closed) I get power on pins 3 and 5. Again, making me believe the relay is working, but maybe intermittently.

Every other time when the car wouldn't start (only happened 5 or so times), I'd remove the key and try again and it always started on the first retry. However yesterday it would not start after several attempts, even after removing and replacing the relay, and it wasn't until I put a jumper on pins 3 and 5 of the female part in the fuse box that it turned over. Coincidence? That's why I thought it might be the relay, and my testing was just faulty. That is also why I created this post, to see if I'm being overly optimistic that it's the starter relay. Thanks for you reply and info!

 

[Werolin]

Yup as others said, Click no start, click start = starter contacts.

They're less than $20 for a kit, heck just flipping the two existing around might work...

Thanks, jgue467! It looks like the contacts are the general consensus of what's wrong. I haven't looked into yet, but assume I'll have to pull the starter to replace the contacts, but that's still much cheaper than replacing the whole starter. I've done some big repairs on this 4Runner, like the timing belt, water pump, t-stat, tensioner pulley, and all that stuff, but something about getting this starter out looks like a pain in the ass. I saw one guy even remove the transmission dipstick, which I doubt I'll need to do. Thanks again for you reply!

 

[jgue467]

Thanks, jgue467! It looks like the contacts are the general consensus of what's wrong...

If you are mechanically inclined, it will not be difficult. I did it by removing the right wheel and accessed from there while laying down, 20-30 mins, nbd.

 

[Werolin]

I watched a video on replacing the starter contacts, and they guy turned the key to illustrate the "click" when he'd try to start it. It sounded like a split second of the starter trying to turn over. The click I heard, if I even heard a click, was more a relay making contact click, or something similar, but definitely not from the starter motor.

Since the general consensus is the contacts, I will probably replace them, but just wanted to comment on the click sound I heard, versus what I saw on a video. What kind of click sound should I hear if the contacts are failing... if that's even describable? Not questioning any of your guys' comments, but I'm just trying to learn.

The truck has 275,498 miles on it, so it's definitely believable that the contacts could be getting tired, but again, just trying to learn. I really believe that I can fix almost anything with this 4Runner (with help from guys like you all), but I need to be told what to fix. So now I'm trying to work on my troubleshooting skills. I'll never be an auto mechanic by trade, but I really enjoy working on this 3rd Gen! Thanks again for all of the tips and suggestions! Keep 'em coming!

 

[spartacus]

Have you tried starting it by jumping the starter relay pins 3 and 5. The relay could be bad?

 

[Werolin]

Have you tried starting it by jumping the starter relay pins 3 and 5. The relay could be bad?

Yes, I know my initial post was a little long winded, but that was the test I did that made me believe it was the relay. The relay seemed to test okay, but it didn't turn over until I jumped 3 and 5. Hopefully that is it, but a lot of people think it's the contacts on the starter. We'll see if it happens again with the new start relay. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Jakeepoo3]

Yes, I know my initial post was a little long winded, but that was the test I did that made me believe it was the relay. The relay seemed to test okay, but it didn't turn over until I jumped 3 and 5. Hopefully that is it, but a lot of people think it's the contacts on the starter. We'll see if it happens again with the new start relay. Thanks for the reply!

A relay may click but that doesn't mean it's good. Put in another relay with the same prong layout and see what happens. If you haven't already tried that.

 

[Werolin]

A relay may click but that doesn't mean it's good. Put in another relay with the same prong layout and see what happens. If you haven't already tried that.

I tested the relay with a meter, and had continuity where I should, pins 1 and 2, and then connected some leads with alligator clips to the battery, the relay clicked as it should, and I now had power to pins 3 and 5. I didn't record the voltage I was getting, but figured that proved that it worked... at least I think. Even putting the relay back in after testing the car wouldn't start. It wasn't until I pulled the relay again and jumped 3 and 5 that I got it to turn over. Then, I stuck the old relay back in and it started fine. Whatever the culprit, it was intermittent, so I figured I'd start with the relay, and then replace the contacts if it happens again. It just seemed that it being the relay was too good to be true, which is why I started this thread.

 

[Bad Luck]

I tested the relay with a meter, and had continuity where I should, pins 1 and 2, and then connected some leads with alligator clips to the battery, the relay clicked as it should, and I now had power to pins 3 and 5. I didn't record the voltage I was getting, but figured that proved that it worked... at least I think. Even putting the relay back in after testing the car wouldn't start. It wasn't until I pulled the relay again and jumped 3 and 5 that I got it to turn over. Then, I stuck the old relay back in and it started fine. Whatever the culprit, it was intermittent, so I figured I'd start with the relay, and then replace the contacts if it happens again. It just seemed that it being the relay was too good to be true, which is why I started this thread.

99 percent of the time it’s starter contacts. 99 percent of the 99 percent of the time that it is starter contacts it’s intermittent. It’s very rarely the starter relay. Starter contacts are the most common reason a vehicle won’t start regardless of the brand which is why a lot of people replace the starter contacts (or starter) in the 2xxK mile range as preventative maintenance.

 

[brillo_76]

Yup very true. The contacts burn off. : ] It's rare to be other things.

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[Werolin]

99 percent of the time it’s starter contacts. 99 percent of the 99 percent of the time that it is starter contacts it’s intermittent. It’s very rarely the starter relay. Starter contacts are the most common reason a vehicle won’t start regardless of the brand which is why a lot of people replace the starter contacts (or starter) in the 2xxK mile range as preventative maintenance.

The starter contacts do seem to be the general consensus. With my rookie troubleshooting skills, I'm pretty certain the relay is working properly; or at least it was when I tested it. Because sticking the jumper in 3 and 5 was what got the engine to turn over I was hoping it was the relay, but as you mentioned, even if for only preventive reasons, I should be replacing the contacts anyway. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Jakeepoo3]

The starter contacts do seem to be the general consensus. With my rookie troubleshooting skills, I'm pretty certain the relay is working properly; or at least it was when I tested it. Because sticking the jumper in 3 and 5 was what got the engine to turn over I was hoping it was the relay, but as you mentioned, even if for only preventive reasons, I should be replacing the contacts anyway. Thanks for the reply!

You by bypassed the relay and she turns.. hmmm that's interesting

 

[Werolin]

You by bypassed the relay and she turns.. hmmm that's interesting

Yes, this non-start thing had only happened 3 or 4 times before, where I'd turn the key and nothing. I'd immediately take the key out and try again, and it would fire up then... until last week (or the week before), where every time I tried to start it it wouldn't turn over. So, reading some threads I tested the starter relay. It seemed to work, as I had continuity on pins 1 and 2, and no continuity on any other combination of 2 pins. Then I connected some test leads to pins 1 and 2, and the other end of the leads on the battery. Once I touched the leads on the battery I heard the relay click, and now putting my meter on pins 3 and 5 I had power. So I thought the relay is good. I put it back in and still couldn't get it to turn over. I took the relay out again and put a jumper on the receptacle for pins 3 and 5 and it immediately turned over. I pulled the jumper out and turned to ignition to the run position, stuck the jumper back in, and it started normally. Turned it off and put the relay back it and it continued to start normally, and has ever since. I did buy a new relay, but haven't installed it yet. I will, though. I will also replace the starter contacts, mostly as preventive, but also in case that is the source of the intermittent no start problem, which many here who know far more than me believe is my problem anyway.