The fuel economy on my stock SR5 has dropped over the past month or so... about 1 mpg. I think we're starting to see the winter blend of gas and that always means worse fuel economy.
Doug Thorley headers for 5TH Gens
- Thread starter harper7
- Start date
The fuel economy on my stock SR5 has dropped over the past month or so... about 1 mpg. I think we're starting to see the winter blend of gas and that always means worse fuel economy.
1traildriver
New member
Thanks for the info gents, unfortunately I gotta fill mine up every time it's empty too....But really, I bought them for both but just figured the power gain wouldn't be all that much. I have been thinking about the muffler issue and looks like I will probably go that route now. Based on all of my past vehicles with headers, I have never tried to used them with stock mufflers.
Just so there isn't any mistake here, I didn't buy the vehicle because of it's gas mileage. But, with gas at $3.10 here in my area, it gets costly to drive as much as I do (over 2000/month).
URD did say that the MAF calibrator and a good tune would "wake it up a good bit more."
Just so there isn't any mistake here, I didn't buy the vehicle because of it's gas mileage. But, with gas at $3.10 here in my area, it gets costly to drive as much as I do (over 2000/month).
URD did say that the MAF calibrator and a good tune would "wake it up a good bit more."
1traildriver
New member
OK so my check engine light has come on 3 times now since having the headers put on (twice this weekend). First time I just reset the ECU myself and second time I took it to the dealer. They said it is showing "low catalyst" and if it keeps coming on with the same code they will have to "replace the cats." I didn't tell them that I have headers and the front cats are now gone, so I will be giving URD a call this morning to see what they say about this issue. I hope maybe the O2 simulator I purchased from them needs to be replaced, I suspect that is the issue.....
I will post what URD tells me later today.
I will post what URD tells me later today.
azn-sensation
New member
Interesting. Keep us updated.^
1traildriver
New member
Ah, things are getting interesting with this issue.
I talked to URD and Gadget told me that he remembered the mechanic calling him about my truck and how to plug in the O2 simulator. Gadget said that the mechanic explained that he had plugged it into the wrong sensor location. So, Gadget told me that this is "most likely" the reason for the sim failing and it is probably burnt out due to being installed wrong. So, because of that, they will not warranty the part and I will have to buy a new one (which he offered at cost). This prompted me to call the shop and talk to them to get some info about the install. The mechanic claimed he never plugged it in and called URD to ask how to install it exactly. So he claims it could not be failing due to the installation. I then told him what URD told me and he said it is probably a bad part. Obviously I am stuck in the middle and will probably be left holding the bill for another part (the light has come on a 4th time now after being cleared again). The shop said they would call and talk to Gadget but when I called today they have not hooked up to talk about this issue.
I am not really happy about being stuck in the middle as the consumer and possibly having to pay for a replacement 2 weeks after having it installed.
I talked to URD and Gadget told me that he remembered the mechanic calling him about my truck and how to plug in the O2 simulator. Gadget said that the mechanic explained that he had plugged it into the wrong sensor location. So, Gadget told me that this is "most likely" the reason for the sim failing and it is probably burnt out due to being installed wrong. So, because of that, they will not warranty the part and I will have to buy a new one (which he offered at cost). This prompted me to call the shop and talk to them to get some info about the install. The mechanic claimed he never plugged it in and called URD to ask how to install it exactly. So he claims it could not be failing due to the installation. I then told him what URD told me and he said it is probably a bad part. Obviously I am stuck in the middle and will probably be left holding the bill for another part (the light has come on a 4th time now after being cleared again). The shop said they would call and talk to Gadget but when I called today they have not hooked up to talk about this issue.
I am not really happy about being stuck in the middle as the consumer and possibly having to pay for a replacement 2 weeks after having it installed.
mgrande
New member
I dont mean to come off like an ass but in the end its your truck and your responsibility so I would even bother blaming anybody, just fix it.
1traildriver
New member
Well, if it is a bad part then the company should stand behind their product and replace it.
That's got to be one of the most inane comment I've heard in a long time!
mgrande
New member
If you say so, but the longer he plays detective and tries to figure out who's fault it was, the longer the truck goes unfixed. Just by the part because you know no one will man up and admit to being at fault, and do it right this time by installing it yourself. That way there's no question.
1traildriver,
That sucks man, sorry to hear you are having so many problems.
Unfortunately today its very difficult to find anyone that really knows what they are doing when it comes to wrenching on cars or trucks.
I, luckily, am fortunate enough to have a knack for it and always do things myself for reasons just as this!
I am not surprised that it burnt the unit out, if that is truly the case, nor surprised that the mechanic that did it wont own up to his mistake. Coming from URD's side, why should they have to pay for someone else's mistake?
Just sucks you are stuck in the middle. I would just try to get it resolved and find a new shop to take it to....one that will be honest when they have made a mistake.
That sucks man, sorry to hear you are having so many problems.
Unfortunately today its very difficult to find anyone that really knows what they are doing when it comes to wrenching on cars or trucks.
I, luckily, am fortunate enough to have a knack for it and always do things myself for reasons just as this!
I am not surprised that it burnt the unit out, if that is truly the case, nor surprised that the mechanic that did it wont own up to his mistake. Coming from URD's side, why should they have to pay for someone else's mistake?
Just sucks you are stuck in the middle. I would just try to get it resolved and find a new shop to take it to....one that will be honest when they have made a mistake.
1traildriver
New member
BFLAN,
I hear ya man.....The shop is pretty decent as far as they are concerned here in my area. Not that I believe the mechanic but I can't prove he installed it wrong. I can also see URDs position on this deal but they told me that it is "most likely" why it is malfunctioning. That is not a 100% on the reason the sim is failing. When I asked URD if it was possibly a faulty unit sent to me I got laughed at and told "you didn't get a bad unit." (likely a faulty unit due to manufacturing? prob not - Possible? I say absolutely) Of course the mechanic just flat out denies plugging it into the wrong sensor.
I guess it all boils down to this: How dare I purchase a product from a reputable company and expect that it works....How dare I??? How dare I pay for a service and expect NOT to have my property ruined????? I guess I have some nerve!!!
In the end I will be paying for it and will not be using that shop ever again....
I hear ya man.....The shop is pretty decent as far as they are concerned here in my area. Not that I believe the mechanic but I can't prove he installed it wrong. I can also see URDs position on this deal but they told me that it is "most likely" why it is malfunctioning. That is not a 100% on the reason the sim is failing. When I asked URD if it was possibly a faulty unit sent to me I got laughed at and told "you didn't get a bad unit." (likely a faulty unit due to manufacturing? prob not - Possible? I say absolutely) Of course the mechanic just flat out denies plugging it into the wrong sensor.
I guess it all boils down to this: How dare I purchase a product from a reputable company and expect that it works....How dare I??? How dare I pay for a service and expect NOT to have my property ruined????? I guess I have some nerve!!!
In the end I will be paying for it and will not be using that shop ever again....
harper7
Senior Member
They do have it hooked up across the REAR two O2 sensors . Even though the front sensors are in the headers and the ones the SIM is simulating,the SIM hooks to one rear sensor and across the transmission housing to the other rear O2 sensor.
In Gadgets defense at URD,all the SIM is a plastic box with resistors,caps and diodes and other simple electrical components to simulate what electrical signal from the O2 sensors the ECU is looking for so it doesn't throw a CEL light. They are potted in the plastic box with epoxy and there are no moving parts. But if it's hooked up wrong and gets the wrong voltages ?!?!Or if the wires get too close to the hot exhaust?!
Here's a brief description of a SIM from another vehicle but they are all the same electrical principal..... http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/oxygen_sensor_simulator/
The problem I see with not installing headers myself is they are not technically emissions legal and I may have to put the stock headers back on to pass emissions. .It's easy for me once I've done a job once though as I know what special tools it takes to get to the bolts. Plus I used good copper anti-sieze so they won't rust as most exhaust parts do.
Good Luck and I hope you get it all figured out.
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1traildriver
New member
Thanks for the info Harper. I will be sure to get it cleared up even if I end up just buying a new one. My first thought was that maybe it was touching the header or something hot under the truck that might have fried a wire. I got underneath and traced the sensor wires and didn't see anything that looked obviously wrong or burned.
I did order a Flowmaster 50 series SUV muffler to wake it up a little. At this point why try having a stealth machine? All my other vehicles have been fairly loud. Nice work with the sound deadening material on the other thread.
I did order a Flowmaster 50 series SUV muffler to wake it up a little. At this point why try having a stealth machine? All my other vehicles have been fairly loud. Nice work with the sound deadening material on the other thread.
How did you clear the ECU yourself in case I have a problem? Do you need anything special?
Thanks
1traildriver
New member
I had the dealership clear it out one time. The other 2 times I re-set the ECU by disconnecting the neg battery terminal for a few minutes. I'm not sure if this clears the code or stores it for later reading, but it re-sets the check engine light. After that the light would come on and go off as I drove around town and put on mileage. URD has agreed to test the unit, which originally they said was not an option, so I just removed it tonight and will throw it in the mail to Gadget tomorrow.
iDRiVaT4R
New member
I had Doug Thorley Headers installed on my 08 Tacoma, the Carb legal ones. Basically the difference with those as I'm sure is the same difference with these for the 5th Gen 4Runner is the Carb legal one has shorter tubes, and the stock catalytic converters need to be cut off the stock exhaust manifold and welded onto the new headers. Having the Cats installed makes them Carb legal.
The ones Harper has are the long tube Doug Thorley headers, They are not Carb legal because you cannot add the stock cats to them. They do create a bit more power and more torque though compared to the Carb legal ones. Depending on your muffler, youll even get a deeper tone I'm guessing. Only downfall as mentioned is for smog time or inspection time, unless you know someone on the inside, you'll have to reinstall the stock exhaust manifold back on. For us in California, our first smog is 7 years from the model year, then after that every two years I believe.
The ones Harper has are the long tube Doug Thorley headers, They are not Carb legal because you cannot add the stock cats to them. They do create a bit more power and more torque though compared to the Carb legal ones. Depending on your muffler, youll even get a deeper tone I'm guessing. Only downfall as mentioned is for smog time or inspection time, unless you know someone on the inside, you'll have to reinstall the stock exhaust manifold back on. For us in California, our first smog is 7 years from the model year, then after that every two years I believe.
1traildriver
New member
URD said the O2 sim is working fine, but they are going to send me a new one anyway. I'm wondering if there is a problem with the O2 sensors that are connected to the headers? I took my truck in to have a new muffler installed and was talking to the technician about it. He mentioned that sometimes headers mount the O2 sensor too far into the tube, causing it to read the levels too high. I don't know how accurate this info is, but it had me thinking since Gadget had told me there was nothing wrong with the O2 sim.
On another note, I had a Flowmaster 50 series SUV muffler installed and it sounds pretty good. Nice sound outside the vehicle but drones quite bad inside the truck. It actually sounds louder inside than outside of the truck. I think I am gonna try the sound deadening undercoating by the local Ziebart to see if that helps.
On another note, I had a Flowmaster 50 series SUV muffler installed and it sounds pretty good. Nice sound outside the vehicle but drones quite bad inside the truck. It actually sounds louder inside than outside of the truck. I think I am gonna try the sound deadening undercoating by the local Ziebart to see if that helps.
So finally installed my headers! Very happy with the results. Sounds a little more throaty now and I have seen my MPG go up about 1mpg. I also notice the increase in power. Nothing crazy, but you can tell its not working as hard maintaining speed, downshifts less, and is a little faster off the line.
I would recommend these to anyone. Its not a cure all but with every little engine mod, I am getting it back to where is was with the pizza cutters on
I would recommend these to anyone. Its not a cure all but with every little engine mod, I am getting it back to where is was with the pizza cutters on
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