Drive shaft noise or U joint noise (LEXUS 4/06 TSB page 18) aka Driveshaft thump/bump

[TeryT]

A follow-up and history on my earlier post:
I had informed the Case Manager that I have been in touch with TeryT and he was more than willing to talk to her to validate that our vehicles are same, the issue is same and his solution (replacement of drive-shaft) provided by Toyota is working so far. She did not pay much attention to it and now trying to state that the "issue" is not same.

In the beginning the DSPM (District Service Parts Manager) and the Case Manager had tried to have the following positions:

1) There is no TSB so there is nothing wrong
2) The issue with Lexus GX470 is entirely different
3) My vehicle and TeryT's vehicle is not the same

and finally...

4) The issue between my clunking and the issue seen by TeryT is different so that solution does not apply to my vehicle.

And here's my side for the record.

I contacted my dealership's service manager (Jon Jones - Right Toyota, Scottsdale AZ) to let him know that this 4Runner was the same as mine. I also stand willing to talk to anybody about this, to help clear up the apparent confusion on Toyota's end.

And for the record, my 2003 Sport V8 4x4 clunking problem was fixed by a driveshaft replacement by Right Toyota last year - at least the issue hasn't returned so far. This was done in conjunction with the Toyota regional person (Arizona), and was fully covered under my Toyota Platinum Extended Warranty.

Come on Toyota - GET OFF THE DIME ON THIS ONE!!!! :awais:

 

[jtateny]

Michael,

My advice to you is twofold. First, please try the "fix" that has worked for me and made my T4R ride a quiet, smooth, non-clunking event. Toyota corporate WILL approve them dropping your driveshaft, cleaning AND polishing it, followed by a careful reinstallation including synthetic lube by one of the better service techs who knows what they are doing. My noise and clunking disappeared and have not returned. What a joy after all of my other frustrations and failed normal lubes.

As I stated earlier, the service manager at the Toyota dealer I used learned that corporate first tried the more advanced chassis/driveline fix on the Lexus 470's and, despite an investment of considerable money, all of the "fixed" Lexus 470's are coming back by 20,000 miles with the clunk back in full force.

That being said, if you are going to use the Dispute Settlment Program, which may well be required prior to any other legal action, you must proceed being ultra prepared. I would think, at the very least, that this would entail you downloading copies of all the service bulletins related to the Lexus 470's. More than one of the individuals on this forum has posted the link to permit you to do that. Because the Lexus 470 is the identical engine, driveline and chassis this should help you establish that the parent Toyota is very well aware of the problem. Some of the individuals on this forum have even been successful in getting their dealers to install other driveshafts. If you contact them they might provide you with copies of their service writeups that detail the fixes that were tried. Second, you should do the research on this and every other forum dealing with the T4R and try to download every complaint of every member to help you establish that you are not alone. Several members of this forum have even provided the complaint numbers that were provided to them by Toyota when they filed their reports. In addition, you might explore if the Dispute Settlement Program permits you to discover the numbers and specifics of all other individuals who have filed complaints with Toyota. I would think you are entitled to that information and providing them with specific complaint numbers will prevent Toyota from trying to say your complaint is the first they have heard. If you ever get such information, please share it with the rest of us here because KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!

In regard to Toyota's position that the clunking is "not an issue" you might even make some contacts with various newspapers, as well as other publications that deal with cars and trucks, to see if any are interested in following your saga. If Toyota sees that there is a growing interest in the "issue" and their response to same, they just might be willing to make some additional accomodations in your case. If they do that you might just help the rest of us argue for any possible accomodations in our case.

Do try my suggestion in paragraph number 1 first. That will also help you in pursuing your Dispute Settlement Program as it shows you did everything reasonable that you possibly could. Keep us all informed of what you do and good luck.

 

[michael90630]

TeryT

Thanx for the update.

jtateny

Appreciate the detailed response and suggestions. I will follow your advise with regards to having the driveshaft serviced if Toyota is willing to do this. If they agree, there is nothing to loose. However I wanted to clarify what I understand from your suggestion that I try this route before bring it up with National Center for Dispute Settlement (NCDS) and maybe request the Case Manager to consider this option.

Or did you suggest I bring up this option when I fill-in all the required forms when I invoke the arbitration process with NCDS?

Thanks.

 

[jtateny]

Michael,

Try the "fix" I suggested first. It is always better to pursue every avenue you can before invoking a claims process. This way you don't go way down the road and have them look at you with those big blue eyes and say in their most sincere voice "Did you try this?". And it just might work for you and prevent a lot of time and effort on your behalf.

 

[lindkenth]

I have had my 4 runner greased with different results. It has never completely gotten rid of the noise but once did take care of it for about 2 months. Would like a more permanent fix. I also have an issue with the tire pressure light going on with tempeture change.

 

[TechWrench]

I have had my 4 runner greased with different results. It has never completely gotten rid of the noise but once did take care of it for about 2 months. Would like a more permanent fix. I also have an issue with the tire pressure light going on with tempeture change.

Can't help with the driveshaft issue, mine does it in between lubrication periods, and I have decided to live with it. I know what it is, and don't feel it is dangerous or damaging, so I am not going to spend any more time worrying about it, my choice.

As for the tire pressure warning with temp changes, it is probably your spare causing the problem. all five wheels have sensors in them, and most people don't check the pressure in their spare. It is a PITA, but you have to keep the spare within the same PSI range as the four on the ground, or the sensor will complain.

 

[lindkenth]

Spare tire is hard to get to without taking it completely out which is a pain. Will check that pressure over the weekend. I did lube the u joint area yesterday and so far so good, no noise. I guess the service at the dealership sometimes do the work they claim to have done and sometimes they do not. If they greased the drive shaft like they said it would have been fixed long ago. Why doesn't Toyota fix this problem at the plant??

 

[Uneek]

Air the spare upto the maximum PSI on the sidewall, so you don't have deal with it as often. When you do need the spare, you can let the air out to the desired PSI. I keep mine at 45 PSI.

 

[russr]

08 driveshaft does samething

well my 2008 v8 is doing the same stuff. i call it a bump stop
when you take your foot off the gas you get a bump
called dealer they said its normal. so sadly to say they
have not made any running change on the assy. lines since
this concern has come about. i would think they would make
a change to at least try and curve the concern in on the 2008
mine started doing it at about 2500 miles and it only has 6500 on it now.
keep in mind im a service manager for a dodge dealer and
when we felt this item on are jeepsa nd trucks they came out with a t.s.b in about 6 months to fix it for the customers. the new driveshaft had a harmonic balancer looking thing built into it to keep it from winding up and it help to hide some of are rear end growl.
i would never think toyota would blow off there customers like that but then again being a dealer guy i see the american cars quality comming way up and they are helping the customers a lot more.

 

[blueleezard]

Follow-up report

All: since the driveshaft replacement last Feb, we've put about 3200 miles on the T4R. Coming up to oil & filter change time. I've done absolutely *nothing* to or with this vehicle except gas it up, check oil and transmission fluid levels, add windshield washer fluid, and check tire pressures. Oh, I cleaned a spot on the carpet and bought a cheap rug from Canadian Tire for the rear cargo area, not that any of this matters one bit regarding the driveshaft question.

The dreaded "clunk" has not re-appeared, and all feels and performs as tight as it did immediately after the replacement. The lift-gate cleaning mentioned on another thread appears to have had the desired permanent results also -- no further problems experienced.

Anyway, with the price of gas heading into the stratosphere and beyond, my wife now drives our T4R more than I do [she works a lot closer to home, so her commute is 1/10 of mine, thus consumption of fuel is greatly reduced when she takes over the T4R], so I'm back to driving the "sweaty Swede" most of the time [7.4 L/100KM vs. 12.2L / 100KM, stop-and-go conditions]. The Swede is lots of fun to drive, thank goodness. Bottom line on the T4R driveshaft fix: it seems to have worked just fine, for the time being. Obviously we're still monitoring closely.

It strikes me that any dealer worth his or her salt and who is genuinely interested in maintaining good customer relations [and thus a consistent profit potential] ought to know by using half a brain from the gutter cleaner that supporting a T4R customer to replace the driveshaft will pay for any overall costs many times over with word of mouth encouragement of other customers and repeat business for just about every other service-related issue. It might be that a particular dealer is running so close to their profit margin that, in the short term, they figure they can't afford to support a customer with something like the driveshaft problem. Very unfortunate if that's the case -- should never be. Sounds like bad business management to me. Happy customers tend to keep coming back, spread the word, and then the money flows [duh!!]. The opposite is obviously true also.

So, it has never made sense to me in any way at all, from many of the stories told in this thread about recalcitrant dealers who give some of our brother owners a hard time and try to pass off the problem "up the ladder", that a dealer would be obstinate, resistant, argumentative, or unsupportive. Where's the profit in that kind of attitude? Let's assume here that the driveshaft replacement is actually a pretty good technical fix for the clunk problem -- sounds like we have some evidence that this is the case. So, if by chance it actually costs a dealer more to replace the driveshaft that their warranty reimbursement program provides, why wouldn't they get after Toyota Corporate in the very next nanosecond with even more energy to set it straight, rather than just leaving it us guys out in the weeds?? Sounds like HQ is frequently disconnected from the front lines -- a very bad thing business-wise.

If the driveshaft problem isn't reasonably addressed and maybe never solved [from the large scale perspective of all us owners out there], it just doesn't make long-term business sense at all. Ten years from now when we're all salivating to buy a completely electric 4Runner that uses no petroleum products *at all* and blows the socks off every offering from the competition, wouldn't Toyota want to build and then rely on the strong positive attitude of their long-term customers who know that the corporation will stand behind anyone who has a problem?? That it gets fixed right away, no questions asked??

Best wishes to all,

And cheers, too ... :cheers:

From a very wet and soggy Southern Alberta [is there an 800 number we can call to order up some Summer??],

Blueleezard

 

[blueleezard]

update etc.

All: a follow-on note from the previous one -- the rains of late Spring have stopped and Summer [so far; knock wood] has been excellent, overall. So, this is from the wonderful warm and sunny Province of Alberta as we move into mid-August. The weather here in the South is fantastic, but please don't tell anyone! My better half and I just completed a 1900KM round trip into central British Columbia and back with the T4R [nearly 1200 miles, most memorably over the Icefields highway in both directions, with the spectacular scenery (dusted with new snow) that we've enjoyed since the 1980s] -- however, global warming is definitely underway with the astounding melt from the glaciers!! Very sad. Anyway, back to good stuff -- zero problems with the T4R. No sign of the dreaded driveline "clunk", either. Average fuel mileage, cruising at about 120KPH give or take, turns out to be approx 11.3 litres per 100KM. Total cost in Canadian dollars? Almost exactly $250, round trip. In this day and age of absolutely nutty gas prices -- not bad, IMHO, given that there was something of a lead foot at work. During travel days at "peak times" from about 10:30AM to 4:30PM or thereabouts, when all the silver-haired tourists in their Runnamuckas tend to ponderously and tentatively navigate mountainous two-lane roads, the traffic was terrible -- good thing we know the route really well from years of experience, and where the [very short] passing lanes are coming up. So, we made good time and survived [and in fact enjoyed] yet another quick Summer trip on one of the most spectacular highways on the planet. Not the least important reason for this: the T4R was [and still is] completely flawless. What an absolute delight for this kind of trip. Best wishes and cheers to all,

Blueleezard

PS -- about three weeks ago, on a bright and sunny afternoon, had the T4R up to +160KPH [+100MPH] for a minute or so on a nearby very straight and level section of highway [with fantastic unobstructed visibility ahead and to the L and R for about five miles or thereabouts]. Never had this rig up to that speed before -- what a great experience. Totally stable, quiet, predictable, virtually no difference from the commute [except the speed, of course]. The damned thing could most definitely have pulled even faster -- lots of oomph left -- but I didn't want to push it. Very impressive regardless. And to think that the downhill assist, in low range, first gear, at the lightning speed of 3KPH, works like a charm. This vehicle is an absolutely perfect engineering marvel.

:cheers:

 

[00328]

Pics man......Pics!

 

[RickyCRX]

Good one... The speed limiter kicks in at 112mph... (Don't ask me how I know this).

Ricky

 

[blueleezard]

Hey 00328 ... no pics -- we didn't take any!! No need, as we've traveled the Icefields route so many times in the past 20+ years. The camera [now digital of course] is always handy in case something really unusual appears [or you really need it for evidence], but there are only so many bears or goats or elk you can snap in a lifetime. Like I said, we've been making the trip since the 1980s [and I drove it countless times back in the 1970s, before hitching up] ... anyway, there are tons of photos on Google that others have posted: just enter "Icefields highway" as your search term [you can try using Google Images, too]. If you've never been up here to see the mountains and scenery, you gotta do it. Especially in a T4R. We should move this conversation from "problems" into "travelogue"! ;-)

Cheers to all,

Blueleezard

 

[00328]

Hey 00328 ... no pics -- we didn't take any!! No need, as we've traveled the Icefields route so many times in the past 20+ years. The camera [now digital of course] is always handy in case something really unusual appears [or you really need it for evidence], but there are only so many bears or goats or elk you can snap in a lifetime. Like I said, we've been making the trip since the 1980s [and I drove it countless times back in the 1970s, before hitching up] ... anyway, there are tons of photos on Google that others have posted: just enter "Icefields highway" as your search term [you can try using Google Images, too]. If you've never been up here to see the mountains and scenery, you gotta do it. Especially in a T4R. We should move this conversation from "problems" into "travelogue"! ;-)

Cheers to all,

Blueleezard

Fair enough.
Also seen tons of animals and a fair amount of beautiful scenery, just wondering what the scenery up there looks like.
Guess I'll just have to make a trip. :

 

[blueleezard]

Hey 00328 -- exactly. Make the trip. It's worth it -- and it isn't very far, really, from Colorado. For about 8 years I used to live in what I then called the "TooFar North" [Northern British Columbia, about 55 miles from the Yukon border], then in Canmore, Alberta [in the heart of the Canadian Rockies, just a stone's throw from Banff -- a great experience for about 4 years], and now, just outside the Northwest of Calgary with the Rockies only 45 miles or so from my LR window -- I see them out there, every morning and evening, every day. Fantastic! My conclusion, having traveled many many times through Western Montana, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico -- the Canadian Rockies up here are truly unique. Geologically, they're here for different reasons than in the U.S. And you can tell just by being here -- they actually look different. I think the Rockies up here are more "majestic", if I can use the term, Aspen [from on high] included. There is no doubt that driving over Independence Pass is a special experience -- I was overwhelmed [and a bit short of breath when I "ran" up to the observation platform] -- but driving the Icefields Highway here in Alberta is a totally mind-blowing experience. Personally, I'd recommend doing it more than once, especially in different seasons if you can manage it. I don't think a "one time experience" is good enough. I've driven it when a solitary Park Warden is out there shoveling out a snowdrift in one lane to let vehicles through, when the wind is blowing so hard your vehicle shifts to 1st gear just to keep going, when the sun is so bright, the glaciers are so brilliant, and the sky is so blue you'd swear you're in heaven. And with traffic jams caused by tourists turning around to look at a damned bear on the two-lane making it so bad you'd think you were in the heart of Manhattan [I've driven there, too!]. Anyway, my advice to all on this list: have a look. Drive the Icefields Highway. Stay in Banff, and then just out of Jasper in the lodge of your choice. Good food, fantastic scenery, and without a doubt: the depths of the "wilds". Good stuff.

Cheers to all,

Blueleezard

 

[blueleezard]

speed limiters ...

Hey RickyCRX -- with the 2003 T4R Sport, never been up to the "limit" that you comment on. But it makes sense: the 1990 red T4R I owned [now so long ago] had a speedometer problem / glitch -- killed the engine when the "program" for max speed erroneously reached an arbitrary limit it confused with the "real world" [the engine died at 56 MPH!!]. I had the speedo replaced under warranty, back then; no problem thereafter. So, I suppose the "limit" to which you refer with the 2003 T4R is more or less the same, i.e., a programmed speed limit. Personally I have no difficulty with this: going 112 MPH is a bit too fast, IMHO. I'm very, very comfortable with overall performance and "limits". But, your point is well taken. Thanks for the feedback!!

Best wishes to all,

Cheers,

Blueleezard

:cheers:

 

[dhabes]

So this is my first post and I've loved my 4 Runner to this point. The driveshaft issue doesn't bother me (after I figured out it wasn't anything in the brake system), however I need to sell my 4Runner since I just bought a house and don't want to scare off a buyer.

I bought the grease gun today and the Mobil1 grease (based on a quick search I did today). I squirted it in the 6 zerks and took it for a drive. Still an issue.

I haven't read all 40 pages, but some of the posts said that their vibration was as they came to a stop. Mine is when I first lightly apply on the brake pedal. It shakes/vibrates for a second or two then goes away....even if I don't change pressure on the pedal. Could my issue be something else? Is there anything else people suggest? I squirted the zerk inside the joint until it started to ooze out and the two zerks on the shaft probably about 15 times the first time....test drive...and maybe 5 to 10 more times.

I appreciate any help. I am thinking of just paying the dealer to do an oil change since I need one and having them look into it.

 

[TeryT]

So this is my first post and I've loved my 4 Runner to this point. The driveshaft issue doesn't bother me (after I figured out it wasn't anything in the brake system), however I need to sell my 4Runner since I just bought a house and don't want to scare off a buyer.

I bought the grease gun today and the Mobil1 grease (based on a quick search I did today). I squirted it in the 6 zerks and took it for a drive. Still an issue.

I haven't read all 40 pages, but some of the posts said that their vibration was as they came to a stop. Mine is when I first lightly apply on the brake pedal. It shakes/vibrates for a second or two then goes away....even if I don't change pressure on the pedal. Could my issue be something else? Is there anything else people suggest? I squirted the zerk inside the joint until it started to ooze out and the two zerks on the shaft probably about 15 times the first time....test drive...and maybe 5 to 10 more times.

I appreciate any help. I am thinking of just paying the dealer to do an oil change since I need one and having them look into it.

Sounds like the same notorious clunk. I've experienced it right before a stop too.

You may have added too much grease. The spline needs some space to slip into, and too much grease may load the shaft too much - not having the space it needs for compression.

Someone else can chime in on this, as I'm on a 3 week towing vacation in the mountains of NM & Colorado.

 

[TechWrench]

So this is my first post and I've loved my 4 Runner to this point. The driveshaft issue doesn't bother me (after I figured out it wasn't anything in the brake system), however I need to sell my 4Runner since I just bought a house and don't want to scare off a buyer.

I bought the grease gun today and the Mobil1 grease (based on a quick search I did today). I squirted it in the 6 zerks and took it for a drive. Still an issue.

I haven't read all 40 pages, but some of the posts said that their vibration was as they came to a stop. Mine is when I first lightly apply on the brake pedal. It shakes/vibrates for a second or two then goes away....even if I don't change pressure on the pedal. Could my issue be something else? Is there anything else people suggest? I squirted the zerk inside the joint until it started to ooze out and the two zerks on the shaft probably about 15 times the first time....test drive...and maybe 5 to 10 more times.

I appreciate any help. I am thinking of just paying the dealer to do an oil change since I need one and having them look into it.

After reading your post several times, I am a little confused. I have the drive shaft 'clunk' issue in my '03. Had it since shortly after I bought it, and am very familiar with how it occurs. I am not sure if what you are describing is the same issue. The drive shaft 'clunk', when it happens, is always after a hard stop and I release the brakes to start up again. It is then, or just as I start to roll forward, that I will feel a thump in the vehicle as the drive shaft settles back into place. Many have described it as feeling as if something had lightly bumped you, or something heavy in the back fell over.

"Mine is when I first lightly apply on the brake pedal. It shakes/vibrates for a second or two then goes away....even if I don't change pressure on the pedal. "

It sounds like you are describing a shake/vibration when you first start to apply the brakes. If this is the case, then you are probably describing what I call 'brake shake', which is the brake pads responding to an abnormality in the rotor. This is usually caused by warped rotors, not the drive shaft. If it is brake shake, it will feel different, at different speeds. The speed it occurs at will vary, but usually at faster speeds, over thirty or so, it will feel like a quick pulse or vibration, and it will slow in frequency as the vehicle slows down. At slower speeds, it will feel like the vehicle is surging as you come to a stop. You will not feel it when you accelerate. If this is what you have, you will need to have the brakes looked at. It can be either the front or rear brakes, it is hard to tell by just driving. The best solution is to have the rotors replaced.