LittleCaesar
New member
The head bolts are TTY, so replace them with new ones when the heads come off.
Eating crow on those high miles ugh......
- Thread starter Panda96
- Start date
wake_rider
New member
I can't tell you that on a full sized vehicle, but I'm a motorcycle guy as well and every bike fsm I've ever referenced recommends replacing head bolts anytime you rebuild. This might be because of the aluminum cylinder jugs and steel bolts sometimes make for corrosion, so replacing them is best practice. However, seems to me that a few hundred thousand miles on a set of headbolts is reasonable enough to provide them relief if they're coming out anyway.
4Runner-Dan
New member
Fix it yourself. There's nothing scary about replacing a head gasket, it's just turning bolts counterclockwise. Once you get the head off, take it into a machine shop for a checkup, then put it back on the truck and turn all those bolts clockwise.
You'll need an FSM and/or Chilton or Haynes manual for torque settings, bolt removal and tightening sequences, that kinda stuff, but you can totally do this yourself, and for a lot less than the mechanic will charge you.
^This. I bought a 96 w/a blown HG. Parked it in my garage. Put it up on jack stands and got to it. I'm fairly mechanically inclined, but never taken on a large project like this. It's intimidating at first, but the FSM is pretty comprehensive and it's gone smoothly. (A little liquid courage helps too)
Also I have been referencing this thread..
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/84683-tb-hg-photo-timeline.html
Monkeybutt2000
New member
If the heads check out fine,I would still have them "clean up" milled.
Most people say don't reuse the tty bolts. I used new ones in my rebuild but I swear the way the fsm reads, it allows for reuse. It mentions replacing them only if they won't give you the right torque spec. Which to me would seem like it would only happen if the bolt were to break off when tightening. I didn't want to risk that.
I used a new set from headbolts.com and everything turned out ok. The peace of mind is worth the $30 for the new bolts. I did reuse the plate washers though.
Panda96
New member
Thanks for all the responses guys. Been down in the dumps since all this happened. I was prepared to eventually replace the engine or have it rebuilt.....just not 3 weeks after I bought it lol!!
Guess there's an upside to everything though. The truck is super clean with 5 speed and no rust. Paint even looks good. Suspension is tight. LBJ's are good. And not to mention I love driving it. I'm rolling in a 2014 Camry SE rental right now......nice.
So I've decided to throw $ at it. Should be fixed by next Tuesday or Wed. Looks like I'm married to it now! $1600 total.....includes all parts and labor including a COMPLETE timing belt service; this was going to have to be done anyhow to the tune of $700. But he's not charging me labor since he's already going to have it torn down. So I could look at it as everything else is going to cost me $900. I think that helps me sleep better at night lol. Its a solid truck from an integrity standpoint. I weighed all the options and I don't want a payment. I know my mechanic will fix her up right. She should last me a good long while from here on out!
I've named her Angry Panda.
Guess there's an upside to everything though. The truck is super clean with 5 speed and no rust. Paint even looks good. Suspension is tight. LBJ's are good. And not to mention I love driving it. I'm rolling in a 2014 Camry SE rental right now......nice.
So I've decided to throw $ at it. Should be fixed by next Tuesday or Wed. Looks like I'm married to it now! $1600 total.....includes all parts and labor including a COMPLETE timing belt service; this was going to have to be done anyhow to the tune of $700. But he's not charging me labor since he's already going to have it torn down. So I could look at it as everything else is going to cost me $900. I think that helps me sleep better at night lol. Its a solid truck from an integrity standpoint. I weighed all the options and I don't want a payment. I know my mechanic will fix her up right. She should last me a good long while from here on out!
I've named her Angry Panda.
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Been there - done that - got the tee-shirt... One of my first cars was a '78 nova - threw a rod in the first couple of weeks. I was too poor to pay for a swap - so I bought a reman'd longblock and figured it out (mostly). It ran - but ALWAYS had vacuum leak issues (hey - I was 16 - what can I say...)
Anyway - I'm not sure how mechanically inclined you are - but IMHO removing and replacing the engine as a whole is probably an easier job than pulling heads with the engine in the engine bay and an overhead cam engine...
SO - if it were me - and I was fairly mechanically inclined - engine as a unit and do it myself. If I could find a reasonably low mileage JY motor I'd go that way - otherwise a quality reman.
If it was me - and I was NOT mechanically inclined - I'd look for a good junkyard engine - and find a good back-yard / shade-tree mechanic to do the swap. Shops that bill "by the book" can really eat through your wallet in a hurry.
Example - A good friend came to me a few months back with a similar situation. Rod bearings were gone in his 175K mile 2007 Dodge (blech) Nitro. His "normal" shop had quoted him $5500 to put a JY motor in it - or $6200 to install a reman'd unit. The difference in price was mostly the cost of the motor - although the swapping of all the accessories added an hour or two to of labor to the reman install price (if memory serves the JY quote was about $3500 in labor and $2000 for the used motor - the "reman" was about $2300 for the long block - and $3900 in labor and other stuff). This seemed excessive to me... ;-) I pointed him to a trusted old "shade-tree" mechanic friend of mine who went out and found a good JY motor, haggled the JY down to about $1300 for the engine, and charged him s flat $500 labor to R&R it... After miscellaneous stuff like fluids, replacing some hoses, etc he was under $2100 out the door. He "tipped" the mechanic $100 and they were both very happy with the outcome.
Anyway - I've had mine now for a few months... it has 260K+ miles on it and I've been spending on it (timing belt, water pump, idler pullies, thermostat, plugs, Tundra brake upgrade, lower ball joints, inner tie-rod ends, etc...) and yesterday I managed to puncture one of the cheapie tires badly enough that I doubt it will be repairable - so I'm guessing that the mudders that I was planning to buy a year from now are going to hit the wallet this weekend... :-( ... That said - I bought a 260K vehicle knowing that I was going to keep it "forever" and that if I used quality parts when it needed repair - they, and it, would probably outlive me...
Best of luck to you... hope it works out well for you.
bishopTS
New member
most all manuals or instructions will say head bolts aren't reusable because they are torque to yield. but I have reused most all of the ones I have done. I have done so many head gaskets in my life their is much that surprises me anymore. when I bought my 99 t4r it had been overheated so I pulled the heads. I noticed the pistons were starting to seize into the cylinders so I ended up putting an engine in that one.
Couple of additional comments...
1) I would not re-use torque-to-yield head bolts on anything that I had real money in - or that had to get me to work in the morning. It is not that you "can't" use them - it is that the material is designed to stretch when torqued the first time and on re-use you are very likely not getting the correct clamping loads on the head that you need for long head gasket / engine life.
2) If you have a blown head gasket a compression test SHOULD show weak / dead cylinders. There could be SOME value in it if it shows 4 or 5 very solid holes and 1 (or 2 adjacent) cylinders leaking down (as opposed to having weak compression across the board or multiple holes with varying degrees of leak-down). The real value here is in giving you some idea as to the general health of the rest of the engine. If it has bad leakdown on all cylinders not just the holes with the head gasket issue - it might not be worth "fixing" - you might be better off buying a good JY motor or a reman...
3) Replacing head gaskets is a bit more involved than turning head bolts left and then right...
* Lots of prep work (guessing it involves pulling lots of stuff off the front of the engine),
* Some really necessary "check" work if you want the repair to last (is the head warped or cracked - is the block deck flat, etc...)
* Some relatively important "tech" steps if you want the engine to run properly and repair to last (getting all and exactly the right replacement parts, torque sequence on the head bolts, getting proper cam alignment on re-install of the timing belt, etc...)
As I said earlier - I'd be less intimidated by R&Ring the engine as a unit than I would be by pulling / replacing the head(s).
1) I would not re-use torque-to-yield head bolts on anything that I had real money in - or that had to get me to work in the morning. It is not that you "can't" use them - it is that the material is designed to stretch when torqued the first time and on re-use you are very likely not getting the correct clamping loads on the head that you need for long head gasket / engine life.
2) If you have a blown head gasket a compression test SHOULD show weak / dead cylinders. There could be SOME value in it if it shows 4 or 5 very solid holes and 1 (or 2 adjacent) cylinders leaking down (as opposed to having weak compression across the board or multiple holes with varying degrees of leak-down). The real value here is in giving you some idea as to the general health of the rest of the engine. If it has bad leakdown on all cylinders not just the holes with the head gasket issue - it might not be worth "fixing" - you might be better off buying a good JY motor or a reman...
3) Replacing head gaskets is a bit more involved than turning head bolts left and then right...
* Lots of prep work (guessing it involves pulling lots of stuff off the front of the engine),
* Some really necessary "check" work if you want the repair to last (is the head warped or cracked - is the block deck flat, etc...)
* Some relatively important "tech" steps if you want the engine to run properly and repair to last (getting all and exactly the right replacement parts, torque sequence on the head bolts, getting proper cam alignment on re-install of the timing belt, etc...)
As I said earlier - I'd be less intimidated by R&Ring the engine as a unit than I would be by pulling / replacing the head(s).
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