Engine cranks 3 times too long

I did the fuel flow test today (removed the fuel filter and had the fuel line feed the fuel into a plastic bag). As soon as my son cranked the engine, fuel flowed out and a pretty good stream. FYI: our fuel pumps don't run unless the engine is cranking/running.

I replaced the fuel filter again since I had it off.

I also had a CEL P120, TPS. So I replaced it yesterday.

Still no joy. Still has the hard start issue.
 
Gerdo,

In mine, with the Key On, Engine Off, my fuel pump comes on to prime the system ( I can faintly hear it).

And that may be your problem, where the fuel pump is not turning on/priming the system, before the engine cranks. When you first turn your key over, there is more than likely zero fuel pressure at the rail, hence the long cranking until the pressure builds up and can ignite the spark.

If you have ever been boating (think in a jon boat with a 6 gal external gas tank), you have to prime the bulb in the fuel line first to build up pressure before cranking the engine over. Otherwise, your boating party and the people waiting at the boat ramp behind you will be unhappy to say the least because the motor will be starved for fuel and will not turn over. Been there, not a happy time.

Just thinking out loud here but I think you indirectly have solved your problem. I hope others can attest to how their fuel pumps behave during KOEO so you and Baha can get this solved.
 
Yeah, my pump doesn't come on till I'm cranking.

Also thinking about my flow. It does come out immediately. It does flow (I'm guessing) about 1-2oz per sec. And with the fuel line horizontal, it would do a 4"-6" arc of gas.

Does this sound like enough?

Isn't there an access panel in the floor to change the pump?
If so where is it? I haven't looked yet.
 
To make sure the flu/cold medicine hasn't totally skewed my judgement (only partially), I went out to my 4runner to make sure I was making sense. I can hear the pump come on with the engine off.

If the pump's flow was greater or less than the stated range (I guess in psi) per the FSM, I would think the 4runner would be running rough, or you would smell gas. So it sounds OK.

In my first car, a Bronco ii, my fuel pump had hard starts. The remedy: a new fuel pump. I cut an access panel to pull the pump out of tank. I don't think the 4runner has one either. Given how close the tank is to the undercarriage, I would probably drop the tank when on empty.
 
LittleCaesar said:
To make sure the flu/cold medicine hasn't totally skewed my judgement (only partially), I went out to my 4runner to make sure I was making sense. I can hear the pump come on with the engine off.

If the pump's flow was greater or less than the stated range (I guess in psi) per the FSM, I would think the 4runner would be running rough, or you would smell gas. So it sounds OK.

In my first car, a Bronco ii, my fuel pump had hard starts. The remedy: a new fuel pump. I cut an access panel to pull the pump out of tank. I don't think the 4runner has one either. Given how close the tank is to the undercarriage, I would probably drop the tank when on empty.
Click to expand...

Not sure if its to the fuel pump but there is an access point to the fuel tank under the drivers side rear seat. It's under the carpet and it's a black cover with a few wires going under it...:shrug:
 
Correction
I got a P0171

1. Exhaust system leak.
2. Improper fuel pressure.
3. Fuel injector restricted.
4. Defective heated oxygen sensor No. 1.
5. Defective Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor.
6. Defective Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor.
 
Ever changed out the 02 sensor(s)? I have never heard of a bad one cause hard cranking before though.

Ever run any injector cleaner through the fuel system such as Redline St1, Chevron Techron, or my favorite, BG 44K?

ECT, yes, both cold and hot starts. For cold, if the ECT is bad, it is usually flooding the engine and more than likely one could see blue smoke from the exhaust. Check with a ohm meter I believe per the FSM. But my money is on the fuel pump.
 
I have replaced both O2 sensors years ago, I'll have to look at my records to know how long ago.
I have run multiple (and different brands) of cleaner thru.
Have never touched the ECT. No smoke on cold starts, feels like lack of fuel on hot re-starts.
 
I probably have fixed the P0171.
I cleaned the snot out of the MAF, it was visibly dirty.
Also I noticed that I MAY have left the breather/vac line off the intake when I was last working on it. (OK, I did leave it off by mistake, my bad).
 
Gerdo, I didn't see an access panel but there was a hole visible. I have a runner now with the gas tank removed. I'll take a pic of what it looks like under there and edit this post.

Edit**** I have a pic of the inspection panel removed from under the 2nd row seat on the driverside. I assume the fuel pump is directly below this but doubt it would be easily worked on from this location. However, I'm sure you could atleast disconnect your electrical connections and fuel lines before dropping the tank.

4runner fuel plate.jpeg
 

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cj80cruiser said:
Gerdo, I didn't see an access panel but there was a hole visible. I have a runner now with the gas tank removed. I'll take a pic of what it looks like under there and edit this post.

Edit**** I have a pic of the inspection panel removed from under the 2nd row seat on the driverside. I assume the fuel pump is directly below this but doubt it would be easily worked on from this location. However, I'm sure you could atleast disconnect your electrical connections and fuel lines before dropping the tank.

View attachment 58085
Click to expand...

I need to dig into mine. I'm sure the pump won't come out that hole but should allow the disconnecting easier than I was thinking.
 
I have received my fuel pump. Now I just need to drive ~150 more miles and I can drop my tank.

Today I "borrowed" from a good friend, his MAF (no joy) and his igniter (no joy).
 
Gerdo said:
I have received my fuel pump. Now I just need to drive ~150 more miles and I can drop my tank.

Today I "borrowed" from a good friend, his MAF (no joy) and his igniter (no joy).
Click to expand...

I suggest you also check carefully for any in-tank leaks after the pump. I say this because on my BMW board a guy had redone his whole car trying to fix this issue and the fix turned out to be a leak inside the tank. It may not be possible on our cars but I throw this out there as I know you are losing hair by this point.
 
I had about 5% hope that replacing the fuel pump would cure my issue.
Today I did replace the pump and so far so good. After a half dozen warm re-starts, it fires up instantly!

Why didn't someone tell me to replace the pump?!
 
Gerdo said:
I had about 5% hope that replacing the fuel pump would cure my issue.
Today I did replace the pump and so far so good. After a half dozen warm re-starts, it fires up instantly!

Why didn't someone tell me to replace the pump?!
Click to expand...

I sent you a letter in the mail suggesting it. You didn't get it? Oh well I'll take the credit anyway. That is unless the problem comes back, then it was the other guys idea.

Good to hear your up and runnin again. You probably helped a lot of future people with their problems.
 
Even after a day of errands, It's still starting perfectly. I think the cold start is a little better too, not that it was bad at all.
 
Gerdo said:
Even after a day of errands, It's still starting perfectly. I think the cold start is a little better too, not that it was bad at all.
Click to expand...

Glad you got it. I really would love to hear a coherent theory of how it was able to start cold reliably with a bad fuel pump, but could not start warm. If there were a cold start injector I could understand it easily. But there isn't. There must be something in the ECU settings that allows a cold start with a poor pump--e.g. re****ed timing or fuel trim adjustment, but the warm settings expect an easy start and it just doesn't happen with a weak pump. That's the best that I can do....anybody else?

EDIT: Huh, T A R D hits the filter?? sheesh....

Yeah, it probably holds the injectors open way longer when cold as it doesn't really know if it might be -30°F outside, as I'm sure that goes beyond ECT range.
 
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