Exhaust Manifold - Broke a bolt, go figure...

[4runherpow]

Early on in the process but I broke a passenger side, heat shield bolt. It's the hard one to get to - underside shield closest to the front.

Any ideas on what to do? See the pic.

I've never had to drill a bolt out of a head. And there's ZERO clearance. I got the other two out no issues. This one just snapped a 1/4 way out.

 

[Hungryhawk]

I presume you are keeping the manifolds?
So the manifold and block/head must stay undamaged too.
Since it broke part way out that means there may be good stock size threads deeper in that hole.
Can you say the whole problem can be resolved by getting the short broken bolt section out?

 

[4runherpow]

I’m replacing with oem manifolds.. I just started the job but since I’m replacing the UCAs and struts I thought this is the best time to tackle the manifolds too.

So the old manifolds will be out. Should I try to fix it then? The heat shield bolt was pretty small. Is this a good “easy out” candidate?

Thanks

 

[Runnin on E]

It shouldn't really matter since you are replacing the manifolds. The heat shield is bolted to the manifold flange. Good luck with the manifold to block bolts, you think you have issues now.....:sobbing:

 

[alia176]

I agree with above, just get medieval with that heat shield and bend it out of the way to access the manifold bolt at the heads. Now, THOSE studs might give you a tad grief during the removal process so I'd soak them with PB blaster for a week before the project starts. It goes w/o saying to replace all nuts with brand new and if you feel adventurous, replace the studs too! Don't even think about reusing exhaust nuts or exhaust donut gaskets.

 

[Runnin on E]

I agree with above, just get medieval with that heat shield and bend it out of the way to access the manifold bolt at the heads. Now, THOSE studs might give you a tad grief during the removal process so I'd soak them with PB blaster for a week before the project starts. It goes w/o saying to replace all nuts with brand new and if you feel adventurous, replace the studs too! Don't even think about reusing exhaust nuts or exhaust donut gaskets.

DO NOT replace the manifold nuts and studs with stock parts. Stock parts will corrode within a couple of years and you are right back where you started, trying to remove the broken hardware through the wheel well. Go on here and find the correct stainless replacements. Learn from my mistakes please. I found studs and really nice self locking nuts (the second time around). You're welcome.....


Metric Fasteners & Hardware｜BelMetric

Aerotight Nut Stainless DIN 980 - BelMetric

 

[4runherpow]

It shouldn't really matter since you are replacing the manifolds. The heat shield is bolted to the manifold flange. Good luck with the manifold to block bolts, you think you have issues now.....:sobbing:

Oh, did not realize that. Great news! Until I have to deal with the block studs, as you said :lmao:

I just got done cutting the y-pipe out. It came free from the manifold studs easy enough, but the connection between the two pieces required a cutting wheel. No idea how, by I stripped the 02 sensor on the passenger side Y, even though I took it out when the exhaust was out. Stripped the bung and every thing too. No idea how I did that. Thankfully, I'm not reusing the y, :smash:

 

[alia176]

One word of caution on using SS (stainless steel) hardware as they gaul rather easily. So, it'll be a one time tightening process, more than likely, but that might be ok with most folks. The Belmetric link above looks to be higher quality than the usual Amazon crap so that may mean that you can remove them after years of service.

My daughter and I are doing the head gasket on her '97 and all hardware came off nicely but she did soak everything with PB Blaster for couple of weeks in advance. This is also a Southwest vehicle, so that helps. All new nuts are OEM when the time comes for re-assembly.

 

[4runherpow]

Thanks to everyone for the comments!

The stainless steel is a good idea but I already ordered all oem studs, nuts, manifold gaskets, and manifolds. I figured anything that bolts to the engine I want designed by Toyota. The y-pipe, I’ll take me chances lol.

Now, my first big issue…

I got through the entire passenger side minus one!! The freaking bottom stud closet to the front. Damn. I used heat, pb multiple times many days in advance, more heat. Nothing! Now a it’s stripped, my bolt grabber has shredded it so I’m sizing down to a 13mm cause I can’t get a bite anymore. Help!!! I feel the despair lol. I spent 3 hours and every angle I could think of. Impact, long levered breaker bar, nothing!! This nut is evil incarnate.

Side note, what’s the word on heat? I’m torching just the nut and stud but what’s the risk to the head? I’ve heated that stuff 5 times now for about 1-2 mins each time.

Dammit

 

[Runnin on E]

I would return the stock hardware, don't use it, there isn't much to a stud other than tensile strength. My stainless hardware has been just fine for 4 years already AND I'll be able to remove it with no issues. How long have you been in one wheel well? For the stripped nut you will need to weld a nut on top of that one. Weld through the hole in the extra nut penetrating into the stud then try to get at least one weld around one flat, or more if you have the room, it will need the extra weld strength when applying torque (ask me how many nuts I welded on before using that method.) I have been in the exact same position as you are in now. I had one stud break off in the block flush (seriously not good) I just left it like that until I had more time to spend in the wheel wheel (isn't it fun!). i bolted the manifold on and ran it for about a year like that with no leaky issues at all. When I finally was ready to dive back in I used the empty hole on the manifold as a drill guide with a bushing inside that hole to make up the difference. IT WORKED, the hole was on center and I stepped up to the correct drill size for a M10 stud and tapped it. Robert is your fathers brother....Or just do what you want either way......

 

[4runherpow]

I would return the stock hardware, don't use it, there isn't much to a stud other than tensile strength. My stainless hardware has been just fine for 4 years already AND I'll be able to remove it with no issues. How long have you been in one wheel well? For the stripped nut you will need to weld a nut on top of that one. Weld through the hole in the extra nut penetrating into the stud then try to get at least one weld around one flat, or more if you have the room, it will need the extra weld strength when applying torque (ask me how many nuts I welded on before using that method.) I have been in the exact same position as you are in now. I had one stud break off in the block flush (seriously not good) I just left it like that until I had more time to spend in the wheel wheel (isn't it fun!). i bolted the manifold on and ran it for about a year like that with no leaky issues at all. When I finally was ready to dive back in I used the empty hole on the manifold as a drill guide with a bushing inside that hole to make up the difference. IT WORKED, the hole was on center and I stepped up to the correct drill size for a M10 stud and tapped it. Robert is your fathers brother....Or just do what you want either way......

Jesus! I can't even imagine. That's insane - I truly hope it doesn't come to that.

I read that welding should not be done. That type of heat will warp the aluminum head...

 

[parsky1]

Jesus! I can't even imagine. That's insane - I truly hope it doesn't come to that.

I read that welding should not be done. That type of heat will warp the aluminum head...

It will be fine. Dodge mechanics do it all the time thanks to their tiny exhaust bolts that easily snap. The heat from the weld will break up whatever is holding it in. They usually come right out.

 

[alia176]

It will be fine. Dodge mechanics do it all the time thanks to their tiny exhaust bolts that easily snap. The heat from the weld will break up whatever is holding it in. They usually come right out.

This type of heat is very localized and the head is made of ALUM so it'll dissipate heat very quickly. Sorry about the nightmare you're encountering, unfortunately, this is too typical for exhaust hardware. The lack of space makes this project a true PITA.

If this was me, I might think about using rounded off nut extractor like this one from HFhttps://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-drive-metric-bolt-extractor-socket-set-9-piece-59855.html?gQT=1

I like this one better, I think: https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...l&store=8261&adtype=pla&gStoreCode=8261&gQT=1

You need something you can hammer on, then loosen with a ratchet. Of course, keep applying heat until the last moment!!!

 

[alia176]

I would return the stock hardware, don't use it, there isn't much to a stud other than tensile strength. My stainless hardware has been just fine for 4 years already AND I'll be able to remove it with no issues. How long have you been in one wheel well? For the stripped nut you will need to weld a nut on top of that one. Weld through the hole in the extra nut penetrating into the stud then try to get at least one weld around one flat, or more if you have the room, it will need the extra weld strength when applying torque (ask me how many nuts I welded on before using that method.) I have been in the exact same position as you are in now. I had one stud break off in the block flush (seriously not good) I just left it like that until I had more time to spend in the wheel wheel (isn't it fun!). i bolted the manifold on and ran it for about a year like that with no leaky issues at all. When I finally was ready to dive back in I used the empty hole on the manifold as a drill guide with a bushing inside that hole to make up the difference. IT WORKED, the hole was on center and I stepped up to the correct drill size for a M10 stud and tapped it. Robert is your fathers brother....Or just do what you want either way......

I like your SS hardware, gonna have to get some and try them on. Thanks for that link earlier!!!

 

[Runnin on E]

Jesus!
I read that welding should not be done. That type of heat will warp the aluminum head...

It is information like this that is making your situation worse. I don't see anywhere in this thread that states welding causes damage.Also your aversion to using the stainless hardware I linked to above. I probably have every tool under the sun and my similar situation with this rust seized hardware kicked MY a$$. The goal is to get the stud out without damaging anything else. Good luck and please report back here what works and then YOU will be the voice of experience. It sounds like you still have the other side to do too. This is a joke....People would say to me " oh, you're an aircraft mechanic?" I would answer " No, I am THE aircraft mechanic!" It was all about the look on their faces.....:target:

 

[Runnin on E]

I like your SS hardware, gonna have to get some and try them on. Thanks for that link earlier!!!

Yes, its good stuff. Use high temp anti-seize when going back in, copper or nickel if you can find it. Don't use aluminum anti-seize.

 

[Runnin on E]

One word of caution on using SS (stainless steel) hardware as they gaul rather easily. So, it'll be a one time tightening process, more than likely, but that might be ok with most folks. The Belmetric link above looks to be higher quality than the usual Amazon crap so that may mean that you can remove them after years of service.

That may be true when going into steel or stainless, but into an aluminum block not so. Now the stainless nut might on the SS stud, but you will be using high quality anti- seized right? RIGHT? Even if you don't use the anti-seize, if the nut seizes on the stud that's ok because the SS stud will just back right out of the block and Robert is your father's brother.....but free advice is worth what you pay for it....

 

[4runherpow]

It will be fine. Dodge mechanics do it all the time thanks to their tiny exhaust bolts that easily snap. The heat from the weld will break up whatever is holding it in. They usually come right out.

It's a bit of a moot point since I do not know how to weld or have the tools. Also, this would be a WILD problem to tackle as my first experience with the limited space. But may have to have someone come out (last resort).

This type of heat is very localized and the head is made of ALUM so it'll dissipate heat very quickly. Sorry about the nightmare you're encountering, unfortunately, this is too typical for exhaust hardware. The lack of space makes this project a true PITA.

If this was me, I might think about using rounded off nut extractor like this one from HFhttps://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-drive-metric-bolt-extractor-socket-set-9-piece-59855.html?gQT=1

I like this one better, I think: https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...ode=8261&gQT=1

You need something you can hammer on, then loosen with a ratchet. Of course, keep applying heat until the last moment!!!

This.

I acutally just bought the extractor set you put in the first link. It's the Lisle one but same deal. The extractor I was using now is this one....

Amazon.com

I have no idea if the Lisle one will be better, but my 14mm seems like its not gripping. I tried sizing down to a 13mm but cant get any bite, polus the stud may be hitting the end since its a shallow socket? Ugh! The space is really a PITA. I'm going from underneath the vehicle, through the space where the inner tie rod goes through. This seems to be the straightest angle I can get.

Yes, I've been trying to heat as much as possible but I cant get the extractor on straight and hard enough without a hammer! Any ideas. I have tried extensions but I cant get it hammered with that angle and all this takes too long and stuff starts cooling off. lol. This is brutal.

I have a lot more to go so I'll move on for the time being, but man, what a true PITA. Is last resort pull the engine?

It is information like this that is making your situation worse. I don't see anywhere in this thread that states welding causes damage.Also your aversion to using the stainless hardware I linked to above. I probably have every tool under the sun and my similar situation with this rust seized hardware kicked MY a$$. The goal is to get the stud out without damaging anything else. Good luck and please report back here what works and then YOU will be the voice of experience. It sounds like you still have the other side to do too. This is a joke....People would say to me " oh, you're an aircraft mechanic?" I would answer " No, I am THE aircraft mechanic!" It was all about the look on their faces.....

Well you definitely know more than me! I just figured if it goes another 200k without having to do the job again and since I've had her I've been diligent about power washing with soap and water after winter trips, hoping it's better down the road. But I'm sure you're right!

 

[alia176]

It's a bit of a moot point since I do not know how to weld or have the tools. Also, this would be a WILD problem to tackle as my first experience with the limited space. But may have to have someone come out (last resort).



This.

I acutally just bought the extractor set you put in the first link. It's the Lisle one but same deal. The extractor I was using now is this one....

Amazon.com

I have no idea if the Lisle one will be better, but my 14mm seems like its not gripping. I tried sizing down to a 13mm but cant get any bite, polus the stud may be hitting the end since its a shallow socket? Ugh! The space is really a PITA. I'm going from underneath the vehicle, through the space where the inner tie rod goes through. This seems to be the straightest angle I can get.

Yes, I've been trying to heat as much as possible but I cant get the extractor on straight and hard enough without a hammer! Any ideas. I have tried extensions but I cant get it hammered with that angle and all this takes too long and stuff starts cooling off. lol. This is brutal.

I have a lot more to go so I'll move on for the time being, but man, what a true PITA. Is last resort pull the engine?



Well you definitely know more than me! I just figured if it goes another 200k without having to do the job again and since I've had her I've been diligent about power washing with soap and water after winter trips, hoping it's better down the road. But I'm sure you're right!

Dude - what a royal PITA this project is, i feel for ya! If you can get a Dremel with a cutoff wheel in there, just cut the whole thing off as close to the manifold as you can.

Another idea is to get a hotter flame source, so perhaps try using MAPP gas? Get that thing cherry red and maybe use a deeper extractor set? I'm spitballing here!!

 

[4runherpow]

Dude - what a royal PITA this project is, i feel for ya! If you can get a Dremel with a cutoff wheel in there, just cut the whole thing off as close to the manifold as you can.

Another idea is to get a hotter flame source, so perhaps try using MAPP gas? Get that thing cherry red and maybe use a deeper extractor set? I'm spitballing here!!

Those are good ideas. I’ll wait till the Lisle set arrives and go with much longer heat. Get it REAL hot as you said. I did notice though that the hotter I get it the bolt seems to start crumbling away. Can anyone verify the attack angle they took? My extractor is 3/8 inch and my impact air gun with extensions are 1/2 inch. I can’t use a 22m socket over it because my half inch swivel won’t clear the tubing right about it. The through the bottom route doesn’t seem to give me enough leverage. This is such a ridiculous spot lol.

On another note it’s I saw my dip stick on right was pretty hardened so easy to replace that