factory antifreeze

M

mbradley

New member
Recently had my dealer's service department check the antifreeze in my '04. They said it was good to minus 15 degrees F. That surprised me as this winter I will be driving in an area where -15 is not uncommon. I believe they told me that in order to lower the freeze point of my vehicle's cooling system, they would have to completely replace the factory antifreeze with special order stuff.

Anybody have experience with this? I need to get my freeze point down to around minus 30 or 40 to be completely safe.

Thanks for any help or advice.
 
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If you have a 2004 4Runner then you probably have red antifreeze installed from the factory, and not the green antifreeze that we've all come to know and love over the years. The red antfreeze, although glycol based as is the green, is very different. You cannot use additives that were intended for green antifreeze in your red antifreeze. If you try it, the results will be immediate and very, very nasty. You will now have a cooling system filled with disgusting sludge.

Prestone makes something they call their Extended Life 5/150 Antifreeze that they claim is compatible with Toyota's antifreeze. A 50/50 antfreeze/water mix should give you protection to -34°F. A 60/40 mix will bring it down to -50°.

But I would check with both Toyota and Prestone to be sure of the compatibility.
 
Most antifreeze is just a 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze. Why not just drain your antifreeze and fill it up closer to 100% antifreeze? That should easily get your car within the temp range you want it to be in.

FWIW though, it's rediculously rare to hear of a car's antifreeze system freezing up. Even if they rate it for -15, it'll probably go down to -30 no problem. That's just how OEMs do things to cover their ass legally.
 
I would assume the factory antifreeze would be good for quite a bit, so check the factory manual and also look at a bottle at the dealer what it says. I dont know the ratio from the factory, but I would assume it is at least 50/50.
 
My 03 saw -30 with the wind chill and never had a problem, if you park outside overnight just try to avoid parking with the front in the wind.

You live in a cold area but what about all the other people who live in your area with 4Runners ;):

Just went to Prestone.com and they have the premixed stuff that you can pour into any color antifreeze of course checking with the owners manual.

I think your fine unless you see artic winds with 200 below:)
 
Thanks for the input.

I'll be talking to my dealer today and will post again when I have factual information to report.
 
greasefingers said:
Of course if one did put pure antifreeze in a radiator, it would over heat.
Click to expand...


What you do have to consider, though, is that with ultra-cold climates like that, the radiator won't be working nearly as hard to keep the engine cold.

A good safe mix if you live in a colder climate is 70% antifreeze, 30% water. You could go higher on the antifreeze, but once you got into the summer months you'd definitely want to swap out for something more like 50/50.
 
A 50/50 mixture of ethylene glycol/water is good down to – 34 ° F. The more glycol you add lower the freezing point, but never use anything greater than 70/30 which is good down to – 84 ° F; because the mixture will not remove as much heat.
 
mbradley, what part of Arkansas gets down to -30? I didn't think it got much below +20 or so in that area. :confused:
 
bleh, we have had to -54F ambient one year, -90F with wind chill (old scale).

went thru last jan in the -20F to -40F with factory stuff (think, but dealer may have replaced it with northern tier grade).

dealer does install a block heater for free in all new vehicles due to our winters up here, dont know if they do more dealer prep due to winters up here also.
 
I promised to post back when I had factual information:

The basic problem as noted in my first post was that after checking the factory antifreeze in my '04, the service rep. told me I was protected to only -15 degrees F. Not low enough for Colorado's high country where I intend to hang out some this winter.

When in doubt check the manual, right? It relayed that the factory antifreeze, was a 50-50 mixture of "Toyota Super Long Life Coolant" and deionized water which is supposed to provide protection down to -31 degrees F. After a couple of days of procrastination, I finally bought a $3.00 antifreeze tester and made my own check. It read that I was good down to almost exactly -31 degrees F. Imagine that! So I guess my mechanic got in too big of a hurry and made a mistake.

In the interim, I learned from my dealer that to lower the freeze point from factory specs in my model truck, you should first drain and thoroughly flush (at least twice) the cooling system prior to adding a "heavier duty" mixture that is not compatable with Super Long Life Coolant but can effectively take the freeze point below -60 degrees F. The cost to do this was about $250.

Thanks to all who replied.
 
I would take what your dealer says with a grain of salt.

You shouldn't have to drain and flush your cooling system twice to put in the same stuff but in a higher ratio mixture. Think about it. The dealer tells you you have to flush twice and pay $250. Gee... I wonder why.

Drain about .5 - 1 gallon of antifreeze and fill it up with the factory stuff. Should cost you about 5 bucks.

-Bobby
 
Bobby - sorry, I guess I didn't explain very well.

The "heavier duty" mixture the dealer was referring to is a different antifreeze compound and apparently is not compatible with the factory stuff (although they didn't explain further). I asked several times if it was not possible to just boost the factory antifreeze/water ratio for added protection and the dealer said no. He explained this by saying this antifreeze was premixed prior to delivery to the dealership and it was not recommmended to change this ratio.

Thought that was important to clear up so that we don't go spreading bad information. I agree one must exercise a little caution and common sense before jumping at service department advice. But so far I've had a great experience with my service department (Caldwell Toyota in Conway, Arkansas) and I will continue to listen carefully to what they recommend.
 
mbradley,

What your dealer told you was partially true. The reason they get the coolant premixed (and consequently, the reason why it's difficult to change the ratio) is because it is running a Propylene Glycol/Water mix, and a company called Evans Cooling Systems owns the patent for running straight PG (no water.) Every other brand of PG you find comes premixed with water because of this patent. Obviously, Evans is on to something here with straight PG and you will see with a little research that undiluted PG allows MUCH higher operating temps and lower freezing points. The numbers also blow away traditional Ethelyne Glycol/Water systems.

50/50 Ethylene Glycol/Water -
freeze point -38degF
boil point 224degF

Straight PG
freeze point -70degF (actually doesn't freeze - it crystalizes)
boil point 369degF
 
I believe they are starting to use polypropylene because it is less toxic to animals.

Anyway my 03 T4R is coming up on the 30K mile mark. The service manual states to change the anti-freeze. I guess mine does not have the super-long-live mixture in it. It’s the typical pink stuff. I am planning on changing the anti-freeze, the diffs, & transfer case; on the next warn and clear weekend I get. I am still confused on whether or not to replace the transmission fluid.
 
mbradley:
The last time I bought a new car (a 93 Jeep) and took it to Colorado for the winter I did the same pre-trip check you did and found it was good to -30F. (I actually experienced -20F that winter.) However, I didn't test the windshield washer fluid. It had a nice, deep green color, but it wasn't even good enough for +20F. It froze on the windshield when I tried to use it while driving in the mountains on I70.
 
One more tidbit about propylene glycol mixtures; you can not use the typical hydrometer to check the coolants strength because the specific gravity is different between EG & PG.
 
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