Finally Front Disco's That Work

[wfo9]

Comments like this are better to be PM'ed where we can talk. I haven't received a PM about any issues with these links for anybody on any forum this are sold on.

Correct, putting them back together on uneven is an issue. You have a lot of pressure on your sway bar since the weight of your vehicle is putting pressure on the it. I don't like the idea of having something that the end user needs to tighten when re-installing. This has failure written all it. The end of the links are welded to ensure nothing comes apart when you're driving down the road.

The pins also only go back in the link one way. If it's difficult you need to spin the collar around 90* to get the holes to line up better. This is an isolated issue that that hasn't been brought to my attention by anybody else. The design was also based on an existing design that has worked for several years prior to mine coming out.

Mike

I was only trying to help...I usually find transparency to benefit everyone in the long run.

If it's not a problem.. great! I'm usually not confident in something until it has been used in the field for quite some time....

In this case it was not very uneven ground at all and my sway-bar slipped right on in the exact same location. It was his first time to use them, so I like I said... there may be another technique or some specific issue with his setup. We will get more data next time.

I don't consider loosening a bolt and re-tightening a big potential for failure. It's pretty much part of every serviceable component ever made... If someone can't handle that.. they better not be doing any type of disconnect in the first place.

 

[MStudt]

I was only trying to help...I usually find transparency to benefit everyone in the long run.

If it's not a problem.. great! I'm usually not confident in something until it has been used in the field for quite some time....

In this case it was not very uneven ground at all and my sway-bar slipped right on in the exact same location. It was his first time to use them, so I like I said... there may be another technique or some specific issue with his setup. We will get more data next time.

I don't consider loosening a bolt and re-tightening a big potential for failure. It's pretty much part of every serviceable component ever made... If someone can't handle that.. they better not be doing any type of disconnect in the first place.

No worries! Being the very first time I understand now. There's no right or wrong way to re-connect these. As with anything though, some work better doing it A way, and some better doing it B way. You'll figure that out in time, but level ground is a key. Is there were a way to not weld I would visit that option. I'd just rather not have someone come back to me due to a nut coming off and ruining a cv.

Mike

 

[codyHTX]

[MENTION=98153]MStudt[/MENTION] i have a couple of design questions and then an issue i encountered after install (i installed the front/rear disconnects last weekend and just finished uninstalling them for the time being):

the 1st and 2nd pics are comparing the stock to the disconnect links. 1st pic: from the center of the joints the stock links are significantly longer than the disconnects. 2nd pic: the upper joint, between the joint and the mounting surface, on the disconnect links is significantly longer than the stock upper joint.
Is there a reason they are not closer in dimension to the stock joints? it seems to put added stress on them, and the install/uninstall process is much tighter tolerance wise due to this compared to the stock joints which are very easy to take off and put on.

the 3rd pic shows were after a few days of connected driving the pin broke at the circlip. the pin broke by rotating into the sway bar while driving with it connected. when stress is taken off one side the shaft itself is free to rotate and the pin is too long to do this without contacting the sway bar (hence the uninstall). pics 4 and five show the direction the pin was facing when installed (forward) and pic 5 shows thee direction it rotated. you can also see in pics 4 and 5 where the upper joint sits much further away from the spindle/knucle than the stock joints.
i uninstalled the rears as well for now, although the only real obstacle with those was a light knocking i was hearing, but did not have time to diagnose today.

i did notice the front disconnect pins are different than the ones pictured on the FJ in the original post, had these particular pins been field tested yet?

i really want to make these work, but need help understanding why they are sized so differently than the easy to fit stock ones and get this disconnect pin situation addressed. thanks

 

[MStudt]

[MENTION=98153]MStudt[/MENTION] i have a couple of design questions and then an issue i encountered after install (i installed the front/rear disconnects last weekend and just finished uninstalling them for the time being):

the 1st and 2nd pics are comparing the stock to the disconnect links. 1st pic: from the center of the joints the stock links are significantly longer than the disconnects. 2nd pic: the upper joint, between the joint and the mounting surface, on the disconnect links is significantly longer than the stock upper joint.
Is there a reason they are not closer in dimension to the stock joints? it seems to put added stress on them, and the install/uninstall process is much tighter tolerance wise due to this compared to the stock joints which are very easy to take off and put on.

the 3rd pic shows were after a few days of connected driving the pin broke at the circlip. the pin broke by rotating into the sway bar while driving with it connected. when stress is taken off one side the shaft itself is free to rotate and the pin is too long to do this without contacting the sway bar (hence the uninstall). pics 4 and five show the direction the pin was facing when installed (forward) and pic 5 shows thee direction it rotated. you can also see in pics 4 and 5 where the upper joint sits much further away from the spindle/knucle than the stock joints.
i uninstalled the rears as well for now, although the only real obstacle with those was a light knocking i was hearing, but did not have time to diagnose today.

i did notice the front disconnect pins are different than the ones pictured on the FJ in the original post, had these particular pins been field tested yet?

i really want to make these work, but need help understanding why they are sized so differently than the easy to fit stock ones and get this disconnect pin situation addressed. thanks

Is your sway bar relocated? I've never seem these sitting so close to the spindle before. These pins have been tested, and hold up better than the old pins do. But you are the first person to break one of these pins which are about 35% stronger than the last ones.

These are the dimensions that were tested, and worked. I can make them longer if people feel the need is there. We tried some that were about 20mm longer, and felt they were getting a bit close to the cv itself. So we decided to drop them back a bit.

Another option to try would be removing the jam nut on the lower heim. The will allow you to pull the heim closer to the sway bar, and that would give you enough clearance between the link and the spindle.

Mike

 

[BLACK-FL4RUNNER]

I had mine on for about 2 hours, then took them off also.
They make too much noise when disconnected for me, and rattle like crazy when connected and driving down the road.

Hope there is some kind of solution. I was hoping this design would work for me.
hwell:

 

[codyHTX]

Is your sway bar relocated? I've never seem these sitting so close to the spindle before. These pins have been tested, and hold up better than the old pins do. But you are the first person to break one of these pins which are about 35% stronger than the last ones.

These are the dimensions that were tested, and worked. I can make them longer if people feel the need is there. We tried some that were about 20mm longer, and felt they were getting a bit close to the cv itself. So we decided to drop them back a bit.

Another option to try would be removing the jam nut on the lower heim. The will allow you to pull the heim closer to the sway bar, and that would give you enough clearance between the link and the spindle.

Mike

these pictures are with the front on stands, suspension hanging. i totally understand the issue of the link shaft dropping too low and contacting the CV or tearing the boot, that makes sense, thanks for the explanation. the fit was tighter but manageable.
i did actually remove the lower jam nut to gain some extra clearance during the install.

the pin didn't shear just from stress of torsion, but was bent by the sway bar itself while driving. i should have taken a pic of the intact passenger side pin to show how its able to rotate into the sway bar and get guillotined at the circlip/weak spot.

 

[MStudt]

these pictures are with the front on stands, suspension hanging. i totally understand the issue of the link shaft dropping too low and contacting the CV or tearing the boot, that makes sense, thanks for the explanation. the fit was tighter but manageable.
i did actually remove the lower jam nut to gain some extra clearance during the install.

the pin didn't shear just from stress of torsion, but was bent by the sway bar itself while driving. i should have taken a pic of the intact passenger side pin to show how its able to rotate into the sway bar and get guillotined at the circlip/weak spot.

I could tell it didn't shear so that wasn't a concern. By removing the jam nut, and getting it closed to the sway bar you should be fine. That was the one change that I did make was adding the jam nut, and washer. That being said I can see how that would have pushed the heim closer to the spindle.

Mike

 

[codyHTX]

I had mine on for about 2 hours, then took them off also.
They make too much noise when disconnected for me, and rattle like crazy when connected and driving down the road.

Hope there is some kind of solution. I was hoping this design would work for me.
hwell:

they rattled a bit for me as well, most noticeably in the rear. i think some of that is unavoidable, but if you fiddle with it enough can at least be minimized.

I could tell it didn't shear so that wasn't a concern. By removing the jam nut, and getting it closed to the sway bar you should be fine. That was the one change that I did make was adding the jam nut, and washer. That being said I can see how that would have pushed the heim closer to the spindle.

Mike

the lower jam nut was removed in those installed pics shown above, which gave me enough clearance from the spindle. it also had the effect of moving the heim closer to the sway bar, and the sway bar is what contacted and broke the pin, however even with the jam nut on the pin would be long enough to rotate into the sway bar and break in the same manner it did for me. so it seems like replacing the pin with a like pin would be just as likely to fail the same way.

i guess i will wait for others to install theirs and see what is reported, but i see this being a recurring issue due to the length of that pin behind the circlip

 

[MStudt]

the lower jam nut was removed in those installed pics shown above, which gave me enough clearance from the spindle. it also had the effect of moving the heim closer to the sway bar, and the sway bar is what contacted and broke the pin, however even with the jam nut on the pin would be long enough to rotate into the sway bar and break in the same manner it did for me. so it seems like replacing the pin with a like pin would be just as likely to fail the same way.

i guess i will wait for others to install theirs and see what is reported, but i see this being a recurring issue due to the length of that pin behind the circlip

I can get some that are about a 1/4" shorter. I'll take a measurement when I get home tonight, and see how those look. I'm also working with my supplier to see if they can change my reducers for the heims. These do have a little play in them, and that is most likely the noise you're hearing in the rear. They used to offer these in steel, and were a much tighter fit than the current aluminum ones.

Mike

 

[SalsaRed]

So who here has installed these and aren't having problems? I haven't installed mine yet and would prefer not to have to remove them.

 

[MStudt]

So who here has installed these and aren't having problems? I haven't installed mine yet and would prefer not to have to remove them.

It seems that most are having issues with the pins sticking out to far. The new pins are a lot shorter, and shouldn't stick out more than about 1/4" per side. I will have no pins tomorrow for those that need them. Also, on the lower heim I included a jam nut, 2 washers, and a lock nut. You only need to use 1 wash, and the lock nut. You DO NOT need to use the jam nut, and second washer. By not installing those you'll pull the heim closer to the sway bar.

One suggestion would be using the sway bar relocation brackets. This will move your sway bar forward, and that in turn will pull the lower heim forward. The vehicle that these were tested on was an FJ with the relocation added. The only contact he had was with the spindle gussets he installed. He notched those, and has been running them for about 4 months now with no issues. After seeing some pictures on here I'm going to guess that the majority of you guys aren't using a relocation kit. In my main Sway Bar Link thread I do have link in the first post for these kits, and has been recommended to use them. This will give about another 1/2" or more of room.

Unless there's an underlying issue between the FJ, and the 4th/5th Gen's there's no difference.

 

[BLACK-FL4RUNNER]

Clearance was fine for mine, the pin is an issue though. It will rotate and get stuck or break. It's an easy fix to get a different style pin though.

The main problem I had was noise. It made a rattle noise when driving on road with it connected, and it slaps around like crazy disconnected when off road.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but I don't really want an expensive paper weight laying around...

op2:

 

[gm350reratliff]

Clearance was fine for mine, the pin is an issue though. It will rotate and get stuck or break. It's an easy fix to get a different style pin though.

The main problem I had was noise. It made a rattle noise when driving on road with it connected, and it slaps around like crazy disconnected when off road.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but I don't really want an expensive paper weight laying around...

op2:

[MENTION=98153]MStudt[/MENTION] is there a way to build these discos with a bushing on the top and bottom to act as a sway bar bump stop of sorts when disconnected? I would think that should help eliminate at least some of the noise and help absorb some of the shock that the sway bar is delivering to the bolt that its sliding up and down on.

 

[MStudt]

[MENTION=98153]MStudt[/MENTION] is there a way to build these discos with a bushing on the top and bottom to act as a sway bar bump stop of sorts when disconnected? I would think that should help eliminate at least some of the noise and help absorb some of the shock that the sway bar is delivering to the bolt that its sliding up and down on.

I can check to see what's out there. The first thing that comes to mind would be a poly sway bar bushing. I'd like to be able to find something thinner than that though.

Mike

 

[BLACK-FL4RUNNER]

I can accept the disconnected noise as part of the trade off when playing offroad.
The connected on road noise was... distracting and annoying.

Is there a way to make a disconnect where you can swing the sway bar up and out of the way?

 

[gm350reratliff]

So who here has installed these and aren't having problems? I haven't installed mine yet and would prefer not to have to remove them.

I installed the rear discos this past weekend on my 4th gen. I will be honest and say that for me, it took some time to get them what I'd consider just right. That being, they don't make any noise, still disconnect AND re-connect fairly easy, and don't come into contact with the LCA when they are connected and the 4runner is flexed. The sway bar moving around while disconnected does make some noise but that is to be expected. I may come up with something to put over the ends of the sway bar to help keep it quiet. I'm not running a long-travel suspension (not yet anyway) so improvement on flex was minimal, which was also expected.

As for the front discos, first run was a no-go but [MENTION=98153]MStudt[/MENTION] has been helpful in giving advice to some of my issues. Turns out my 4th gens sway bar is a lot closer to the passenger side steering knuckle (aka spindle) than most. I feel this is due to my current alignment settings ( over 4* of caster), the fact that the sway bar is not relocated forward and normal manufacturing tolerance. Either way, as of now, those discos will not work for my 4th gen. I may try to re-install Friday following some advice from MStudt or I may wait and try to find a cheap sway bar relocation kit that I can buy or borrow. Who knows, maybe I'll just make one if I have time. Honestly, it may be a while before I can revisit these but I will post my findings either way.

 

[MStudt]

I can accept the disconnected noise as part of the trade off when playing offroad.
The connected on road noise was... distracting and annoying.

Is there a way to make a disconnect where you can swing the sway bar up and out of the way?

On the front there is not, or at least not that I've been able to find. The only thing I've seen in addition to what I make is an actual disconnect for the sway bar itself. Due to the design of the 4th and 5th Gen I'm not sure if you'll have enough room to swing it up without contacting anything, and the same for swinging it down.

Another issue to watch for is making sure the links are an equal distance from the spindles. The 4th and 5th Gen's have been known to have shifting sway bars in the front. There are two crimped rings on the outside of each sway bar bushing. These aren't the best, and your sway bar can shift causing link to hit to the spindle too.

Mike

 

[gm350reratliff]

I might have to try a set of these as well: https://www.allprooffroad.com/05tacomafrontsuspension/05swaybarcollars

 

[MStudt]

I may wait and try to find a cheap sway bar relocation kit that I can buy or borrow. Who knows, maybe I'll just make one if I have time. Honestly, it may be a while before I can revisit these but I will post my findings either way.

You can get those from Toytec. Another thing to do would be measuring the distance to the spindles, and check to see if the sway bar itself has shifted. The sway bar can shift causing it to be closer to one side vs the other. All Pro sells some shaft collars to clamp on to hold the sway bar in place. I'm sure you can find a generic shaft collar from McMaster-Carr though.

Mike

 

[MStudt]

I might have to try a set of these as well: https://www.allprooffroad.com/05tacomafrontsuspension/05swaybarcollars

I just mentioned those. Measure the OD of your sway bar, and buy some from McMaster-Carr if they're cheaper.

Mike