I don't know how hardcore. But I'll sleep better knowing it's stronger then now and won't have to worry about anything if I do end up off roading hard. You know ? I'm gonna cut them of and re weld it to the plates with chasers. I think I found a set of 6 just gussets. Thanks bud
finally the sliders are on
- Thread starter kolelt
- Start date
I don't know how hardcore. But I'll sleep better knowing it's stronger then now and won't have to worry about anything if I do end up off roading hard. You know ? I'm gonna cut them of and re weld it to the plates with chasers. I think I found a set of 6 just gussets. Thanks bud
88Cleve4runner
New member
This. With the scab plates you'll be fine. I'm not exactly sure I follow how welding them at 3 and 9 would benefit you at all really. The gains would seem to negligible.
With no scab plate I can see the argument for not adding the gussest, but with the scabs you're actually transferring the load across the top lip of the scab onto the frame. The gusset is there to keep the legs from bending up.
88Cleve4runner
New member
Double post, my bad
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slapdappy
Banned
It took reading Rich's explanation several times until I picked up that he was talking about the gusset pushing through the leg, not the frame plate.
"If put directly in the load path it will open the leg up just like a can when a decent load is applied." The gusset can focus so much force on such a small area it can punch through the top of the leg the way a swiss army knife can opener punches through a lid, as I understand it.
I mistakenly quoted "It will shear through the frame" from another paragraph in which he discussed frame plate shapes and how they transmit pressure to the frame. He was saying a diamond shaped plate would act like a can opener on the frame when enough force is transmitted. "Try to envision both plates diamond & rectangular welded up on separate frame rails both plates ultimately having the same dimensions. Lets say both frame rails were held in fixtures that absolutely will not move. Now we progressively put more & more load upwards on each slider rail until they fail. The diamond shaped scab plate will fail first as it has less material above, and below the plate(load path). Both plates will fail at some point but they mostly will fail due to the frame not being able to take the load in such as small area. In fact it will fail somewhat like how a manual can opener (kind on swiss army knives) works. It will shear through the frame."
HE is not recommending the absence of a frame plate. Ideally and commonly frame reinforcing plates are used. Your sliders have been so nicely welded I was opining about the need to remove them and weld on a reinforcing plate based upon your bashing or non bashing intentions.
"If put directly in the load path it will open the leg up just like a can when a decent load is applied." The gusset can focus so much force on such a small area it can punch through the top of the leg the way a swiss army knife can opener punches through a lid, as I understand it.
I mistakenly quoted "It will shear through the frame" from another paragraph in which he discussed frame plate shapes and how they transmit pressure to the frame. He was saying a diamond shaped plate would act like a can opener on the frame when enough force is transmitted. "Try to envision both plates diamond & rectangular welded up on separate frame rails both plates ultimately having the same dimensions. Lets say both frame rails were held in fixtures that absolutely will not move. Now we progressively put more & more load upwards on each slider rail until they fail. The diamond shaped scab plate will fail first as it has less material above, and below the plate(load path). Both plates will fail at some point but they mostly will fail due to the frame not being able to take the load in such as small area. In fact it will fail somewhat like how a manual can opener (kind on swiss army knives) works. It will shear through the frame."
HE is not recommending the absence of a frame plate. Ideally and commonly frame reinforcing plates are used. Your sliders have been so nicely welded I was opining about the need to remove them and weld on a reinforcing plate based upon your bashing or non bashing intentions.
Yes, it makes sense if the gusset is welded onto the frame at 12 ockock with out any plate in between then if you go down hard, it might push through the frame wall. Because if you land hard on it, the force is pushing up so the gusset is digging into the frame. I noticed that since I didn't weld a plate, if I go under the car and do a pull up on the sliders, I can see my frames side wall flex. And that's why I'm cutting them of and welding a plate then the slider on the plate and the gusset.
mrtucker80
New member
I understand his reasoning, but if you really want to get technical neither answer is correct. At 3 and or 9 you gain lateral support but you add no strength to the actual load path. You would be just as well to have no gussets as ones at 3 and 9. I get the punch thru on the leg but a good DOM tube should not be soo easy to open as a can as implied by the explanation. The frame on the other hand is quite thin and could be punched thru, which is why the frame plates are needed to spread the load out. If you only have 6 plates then I would put them on top at 12 o'clock. Material properties play into the equation pretty heavily. If you get enough triangles to put two on each leg then to get the strength that is being throw around here you should place them at about 10 and 2, maybe 1030 and 130, that will keep the reinforcing in the direction of loading and keep from having the direct cutting action on the dead center of the tube.
Again, if your legs are reasonably good quality then the likely hood of the gussets cutting the legs is small. Besides most every manufacturer who builds them adds the gusset at 12 o'clock and if this was a major issue I think you would see the major players make some changes to their designs.
Again, if your legs are reasonably good quality then the likely hood of the gussets cutting the legs is small. Besides most every manufacturer who builds them adds the gusset at 12 o'clock and if this was a major issue I think you would see the major players make some changes to their designs.
I like the thought that he put into the 3 and 9 o clock gusset concept. He is correct in that the gusset will essentially become a leverage point to dent the slider tubes. However, a circular tube is extremely strong and at least with my sliders, the gauge of the gusset as well as the weld beads around it create quite a large surface area on the slider tube. Yes, 3 and 9 would be better, but having a gusset at 12 o'clock will still be exponentially stronger than a tube welded to the frame with no plate and gusset.
If low weight was a strict concern, the gussets at 3 and 9 would allow a set of sliders that are stronger using thinner, lighter tubing. From an engineering point of view, it is ideal.
I am not disagreeing with you or him, simply giving my input.
slapdappy
Banned
I was grateful and impressed that he spent so much time answering my questions so fully. His certifications + sliders being the core of his business since 2002 + his extensive explanations persuades me that his info is credible. Others may disagree. None of his 5 models of sliders are gusseted. I understand the intuitive appeal of 12 o'clock gussets.
He raised the issue of gussets. Their shortcomings would never have occurred to me, a layman, so I had no qualms or questions about them.
I enjoy these discussions, as evidenced by the string of emails between me and Stubbs as well as my posts in this thread. I want to know. I do not know. I ask questions of those who do know, and discuss with those who may know. I enjoy this process of ferreting out the answers, so I will know.
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