First 5 months with 13 LE

[Viper45]

Threat... invitation... it was an ultimatum of sorts when you chose to "make this public" for the greater good, sticking it to the man, or whatever you're trying to accomplish.

The "cronies" you seem to be calling out, in my short time here, are what I would consider to be the core of T4R - 5th gens membership. These same members are the people that have contributed to helping more (new) members, me included, than you could shake a stick at. They sign on frequently to answer the same questions, over and over, on tires, wheel sizes, lifts, etc; when a simple search on the topic would have sufficed. Are the answers always with grace? No, but siht happens. To be honest, I find this community to be one of the BEST I've encountered on the internet; don't believe me, go hang around the WoW or Bungie.net forums, or hell worst of all... reddit (/shudders). :driving:

Listen, I'm sure you're a nice guy, but it's almost like you think that since we're all 4R owners, we should all get along and play nice. It's a melting pot of different personalities and cultures coming together, not the 2013Trail bashing club. Knowing this you can count on Stifler and TitanPat calling it how they see it, 1E and JB using logic and reason to quantify their arguments, and me speaking before I can articulate a full thought...

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you should try and grow a little thicker skin when it comes to internet comments.:smash:

--------------------------------------------------
For the record 1E, if you ever do a survey of 5th gen owners, I feel like I have more power than I know what to do with. Considering I gained a ~47% increase in power to weight ratio though, I don't know who wouldn't.
2003 Taco Xtra cab. - 150 hp / 3877 lbs = 0.0386 hp/lbs
2013 4 Runner Trail - 270 hp / 4750 lbs. = 0.0568 hp/lbs

 

[Canazes9]

I've had enough of this so I'm calling you out 1engineer--you and anyone else who acts like you do. And I'm making this public:

Why do you jump down someone's throat almost every time they say something negative about their 5th Gen 4R? Why do you feel that almost everyone's complaints are petty or have no merit? Why do you feel the need to make condescending statements? This is a Toyota 4Runner forum. It would be ridiculous and totally unbelievable if everything everyone said about the 4R was positive. I guess you need a TSB or recall for any complaints to be valid, right?

I challenge you to go on any vehicle website, and find me one, just one single website on which no one complaints about their vehicles. Show a little class and consideration. We're not idiots. We're not stupid. We're not overly picky. We may have different standards and expectations than you and a number of other attackers on this website, but our negatives are just as valid as your or anyone else's positives. And our opinions are often based on our life experiences with a number of vehicles--not just V-8s or diesels, or SUVs or luxury cars.

I've never seen so many hateful people on one website. So, go ahead, ban me or tell me to leave if I don't like it. You and your cronies need to back off.

The only thing 1E is guilty of is not suffering fools gladly.

All of the complaints about lack of power and shift programming are a direct result of people not understanding how to use their trucks properly to get the performance out of it.

Sometimes [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] gets aggravated repeating the same thing for the 10th time this month and forgets to add the sugar coating - It's the internet, if you don't like his advice then refuse to pay for it...

David

 

[Telepi]

I've had my SR5 for a month now and really appreciate how it shifts. It took some getting use to. I came from a Hummer H3 that only had 4 gears and it was geared quite differently than the 4R.

This thing just glides and is the smoothest vehicle I've ever driven. I'm learning to use the manual shift in rush hour. I find 3 works well in heavy traffic, so I don't have to keep tapping the brakes. :driving:I could let my H3 do the shifting because of its gears to slow me down.

Someone earlier said, we buy horsepower, but use torque. (I should have used the quote thing, but I just remembered this as I was typing) That's true. I'll bet most of the time we only use 25% to 30% of the available HP. I recall my Scan Guage in my H3 would show about 65HP when I'm driving down the highway. I haven't plugged it in to my 4R yet.

From my perspective, the 4R is designed to do what it does. And it does it very well. I didn't use my H3 as the benchmark of what I would expect it to do. They are both so different from each other. Of course, I was use to not having any power.:jk:

 

[LandCruiser]

Seriously how the shit do you go out and spend close to 40 large on a vehicle and then be THAT disappointed?

It's an archaic BOF SUV that hasn't changed much from its 4th gen counterpart. It's built with a schizophrenic design philosophy that both wants to listen to focus groups that want to make what is essentially an off road expedition vehicle in nearly ALL other markets its platform is sold in into a car by giving it luxo crap or making a rectangular brick get Crossover like gas mileage while at the same time having off road performance that is pretty much at the 99th percentile of all unmodified vehicles on the market today. Out of the box a TE will pretty much only be bested by an FJ Cruiser or a Wrangler Rubi. You won't be able to see out of the FJ Cruiser and drive off of a mountain pass and die terribly and the Rubi is built by Union Thugs who pound more chronic than Cube and will promptly die at the trail head because it has a V8 wiring harness from a Challenger installed on its V6 engine.

It's people who complain about the texture of the leather, the sun visors, the engine that is more geared to deliver low end torque rather than horsepower that drown out the complaints of people like me who want an core off roader with a big ass engine no luxo crap (just a comfy chair for my old but) and I sure as hell don't give a damn about if the soccer team's gear will fit with the third row seat up.

Christ, it really sounds like you'd be much more happy with a Crossover.

 

[coolslice]

This, exactly. I'm continually amazed by (all) these threads complaining about performance. Pre-purchase specs are readily available (4.0L @ 270hp/278tq), as is weight, 0-60 times, and tow capy, including test drives.

As Greg says; it's there - you just have to learn how to drive it. This thing actually can go like stink, you just have to kick it and not be afraid to let it rev.

Most test drives I've ever taken don't allow to for towing a boat to the lake. Like I said, the power is adequate, UNTIL you hook ANYTHING behind it.

I will say it has nothing to do with "knowing how to drive it". It is marketed as the last true utility vehicle, but IMO it is certainly geared more towards city driving.

IMO, Toyota should have an engine in the T4R that is direct injection, producing over 300 hp that is capable of getting low 20's on the hwy, matched with a 6 speed auto. Toyota has hung onto their engines and transmissions for too long, and it will cost them sales, especially with the Tundra because they have been left behind in many areas. I don't care what Toyota, or anyone else says, this is my second 4.0 V6, and you will NEVER see mileage above 20, unless you drive downhill at 50 mph. In the real world, the T4R will struggle to reach 18, and anyone that says otherwise either doesn't drive like the rest of the world, or they are telling a bold faced lie.

Don't get me wrong, I like the T4R or I would not have bought it, but life with it has been a tough adjustment. I do feel that I perhaps should have stayed with the full-size pickup, but that is mostly because this is my busy season of outdoor activity with boats, atv's, and hunting. I am giving it until next spring, then I will reassess my wants and needs and go from there.

 

[mdogg]

My last car was a modded Pontiac G8 GT. 355HP stock, RWD. I bought this truck knowing full well it was a truck, with a truck weight and a truck engine. The engine (acceleration and/or mileage) isn't bad at all for what it is (BOF/heavy, fulltime 4WD, towing capacity, no aerodynamics, $40k price, ultra-reliable).

If you want better acceleration, get an AGM G-class. Oh wait, that's $80k above the price point. So slum it and get a Jeep SRT8. Oh wait, that's still $20k above the price point.

If you want more towing, get a full-size SUV. Oh wait, more money again. Do you see where this is going?

IMO, Toyota should have an engine in the T4R that is direct injection, producing over 300 hp that is capable of getting low 20's on the hwy, matched with a 6 speed auto. Toyota has hung onto their engines and transmissions for too long, and it will cost them sales, especially with the Tundra because they have been left behind in many areas. I don't care what Toyota, or anyone else says, this is my second 4.0 V6, and you will NEVER see mileage above 20, unless you drive downhill at 50 mph. In the real world, the T4R will struggle to reach 18, and anyone that says otherwise either doesn't drive like the rest of the world, or they are telling a bold faced lie.

The engine doesn't seem to be costing Toyota any sales at this point since you're still buying. If it's not costing them sales or money, why change it? Sounds like a smart business strategy to me.

 

[Bay33saw]

We have had ours for roughly 5 months now as well. I bought it for looks and reliability and because it is one of the few SUVs out there that doesn't look like our has been converted into a crossover. I have lots of love for it. That said, my gripes:
-a 5-speed transmission... Give me a break
-a $45k limited with no cooled seats or seat memory... Asinine! I could be wrong but I think that limited Highlanders come more well equipped.
-hate that the range when full is less than 350 miles.

Despite all of this, 2 weeks ago, I bought a used 2006 SR5 V8 with 114k miles. So.....

There is nothing practical about owning a 4Runner for the price unless it fulfills your ego, desires, the need to drive a manly non-American SUV, and you don't mind paying for it.

I'm with you on the Cooled and memory seats....Oh wait the 14 has them so I'll wait it out until I upgrade to a 15 or 16....

 

[Snowdogyyz]

I'm a newbie here, but spent lots of time on a similar forum- the FJ CRUISER forum. I see similarities. Lets face it, if you bought a 4Runner or FJC, and spend any decent time on the forums, you are more than likely a pretty big fan of that vehicle. I loved my FJC, just as I love my Trail 4Runner. But, there are things I do not like about both of them. It doesn't mean I didn't do research or weigh pros versus cons, or drive a sports car or drive a dually diesel for years before buying. I think Toyota is the finest automaker out there and that's why my last 5 vehicles have been Toyotas (3 Tacomas, FJC, 4Runner).
Obviously, I love Toyota! But, if I feel the drivetrain is a little sluggish and the stock suspension sucks, that's my opinion and I have every right to voice it. Obviously I felt the 4Runner had a lot going for it otherwise or I would have bought something else. I saw a lot of snobbery and condescension, and personal attacks on the blue room for people simply giving their opinion on the FJC. don't let this forum get that way! I quit browsing the blue room because I got tired of it. It's a great resource, but who needs some know it all telling you your opinion is wrong and attacking you because you had a minor complaint on the vehicle? I can understand some folks getting snarky when the same question is asked 100 times a week that a simple search will bring up 50 threads on already. But, lets keep things respectful! This is a tremendous forum with tons of knowledge and incredible builds. We don't want to run current and future buyers away as that could hurt future sales and could contribute to the demise of a truly off road capable platform. The FJC is probably on its way out, which leaves only the 4R. When that's gone, you are in a highlander or moving over to a heep!

 

[Whiplash Willy]

Most test drives I've ever taken don't allow to for towing a boat to the lake. Like I said, the power is adequate, UNTIL you hook ANYTHING behind it.

I will say it has nothing to do with "knowing how to drive it". It is marketed as the last true utility vehicle, but IMO it is certainly geared more towards city driving.

IMO, Toyota should have an engine in the T4R that is direct injection, producing over 300 hp that is capable of getting low 20's on the hwy, matched with a 6 speed auto. Toyota has hung onto their engines and transmissions for too long, and it will cost them sales, especially with the Tundra because they have been left behind in many areas. I don't care what Toyota, or anyone else says, this is my second 4.0 V6, and you will NEVER see mileage above 20, unless you drive downhill at 50 mph. In the real world, the T4R will struggle to reach 18, and anyone that says otherwise either doesn't drive like the rest of the world, or they are telling a bold faced lie.

Don't get me wrong, I like the T4R or I would not have bought it, but life with it has been a tough adjustment. I do feel that I perhaps should have stayed with the full-size pickup, but that is mostly because this is my busy season of outdoor activity with boats, atv's, and hunting. I am giving it until next spring, then I will reassess my wants and needs and go from there.

I do agree that a test drive won't allow for enough time or varied driving situations to bring out all of the quirks the vehicle has, like rough low speed shifting, drivetrain clunk, holding onto low gears too long when engine braking, ect. So I can understand finding problems with a 40k vehicle after a couple months of ownership, even with a test drive.

My 2013 SR5 is 100% stock, tires are at 38psi, and my MPGs are great considering what the 4runner is. I average 19mpg on my daily commute which is 50/50, and has traffic. When driving 100% freeway I see about 24mpg, which is better then some midsize sedans with smaller engines!

One of the things I like about the 4runner is its old school design and simplicity. The more complicated a vehicle gets, the more delicate and unreliable it becomes. I am glad it doesn't have a complicated Direct Injection system, that causes carbon buildup, that I would have to deal with down the road. I am glad it doesn't have a weak 8-speed transmission, or one of those horrible CVT contraptions. I like the robust time tested 5-speed.

I have daily driven very complicated and advanced vehicles in the past, and while they do provide better power and MPGs, they are a constant worry and headache. Part of why I bought a new 4runner is so I could just drive it and not have to worry about any problems. It really is impressive the power and fuel economy the 1GR-FE can provide for this 4500lb brick of a vehicle.

 

[1engineer]

Notice how most of these threads are by owners that had big diesels or sports cars or V8's right before trading for a 4Runner. I have never read about anyone coming from a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic or even a Tacoma or Xterra saying "Man, this thing has no power and when you tow with it it only gets 12 mpg." Jeez test drive maybe? Buyer's remorse because they are comparing apples and oranges.

I've had enough of this so I'm calling you out 1engineer--you and anyone else who acts like you do. And I'm making this public:

Why do you jump down someone's throat almost every time they say something negative about their 5th Gen 4R? Why do you feel that almost everyone's complaints are petty or have no merit? Why do you feel the need to make condescending statements? This is a Toyota 4Runner forum. It would be ridiculous and totally unbelievable if everything everyone said about the 4R was positive. I guess you need a TSB or recall for any complaints to be valid, right?

I challenge you to go on any vehicle website, and find me one, just one single website on which no one complaints about their vehicles. Show a little class and consideration. We're not idiots. We're not stupid. We're not overly picky. We may have different standards and expectations than you and a number of other attackers on this website, but our negatives are just as valid as your or anyone else's positives. And our opinions are often based on our life experiences with a number of vehicles--not just V-8s or diesels, or SUVs or luxury cars.

I've never seen so many hateful people on one website. So, go ahead, ban me or tell me to leave if I don't like it. You and your cronies need to back off.

Alright, you asked for it:
See if you can follow this thought - This thread has over 700 views in a little over 24 hours. Do you think those 700 views came from 20 guys who have posted in here? No me either. Those 700 views came from VISITORS. Those people out there who are researching a Toyota 4Runner. If you "google" a question about a 4Runner you will wind up here at T4R.org, and we (cronies) like to make sure that potential owners and buyers get the best and most accurate information available. You still with me? OK, now [MENTION=98189]coolslice[/MENTION], the OP, wrote a review that was not bad at all except for one thing - he is lamenting the imagined lack of horsepower and torque required for towing and general use. Unfortunately he is comparing his new 4Runner (apple) to his previous vehicle, a 3/4 ton Dodge diesel pickup (orange) and the output torques of each vehicles. This is NOT a fair comparison. I could very well say "The 4Runner does not haul very much dirt compared to my Ford class VIII dump truck." But that would not be a fair comparison either. You hopefully understand that a casual reader would look at the first post and say "Hmmm, the 4Runner can't even tow a little boat" when in fact the 4Runner tows little boats just as well as any other V6 powered BOF vehicles. THIS is the point of my post, the one that finally caused you to show your true colors. Read on:

I do not "demean" or speak "condescendingly" to any person. Rather, I speak to the post or idea, and if it's wrong or misleading, I will answer and correct to the best of my ability. I doubt you have ever read anything I have posted that demeans or insults the person directly, just their verbiage. I also am no different here than in real life. I always try to speak the truth directly and without malice. Unfortunately in this day and age of "political correctness" and "redistribution" of wealth, knowledge and everything else this does not make me a popular guy, either here or again, in real life.

Now, you wanting to "call me out" is ludicrous. I could REALLY be demeaning here but I will refrain. If you have an issue with me you best take it to PM's because I will not be this nice next time.

There are lots of complaints with the 4Runner, as with any vehicle. Read this thread http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...l-complaint-thread-toyota-some-solutions.html that was started by one of the "cronies" as you put it. That's 10 pages of problems, issues, complaints and ideas on the 4Runner. If you would read it you will see just about everything is included there, and you will see Toyota corrected a lot of the early problems themselves and the 2014 model will correct even more. So you see this website DOES have a place for issues. Imagine that.

If you have an opinion on something that is unquantifiable, such as color (I don't like black) or seating comfort (This seat gives me a backache) or something else that's one thing. If you compare "apples to apples" on something like another V6 SUV BOF 4X4 then that's also valid. Whenever you go comparing "apples to oranges" (My Porsche 911 handles better than this 4Runner), well, expect a response.

Believe it or not, there are a few stupid, idiotic, and picky people who stumbled around and accidentally bought a 4Runner. Once in a great moon they figure out how to post on the internet and wind up here. Luckily they are in the minority because most people who regularly post here are extremely smart and talented, as evidenced by the great threads that answer almost every question related to the 4Runner.

The biggest problem I have witnessed is "Buyer's Remorse." These people are not dumb or stupid they just bought a 4Runner and really wanted something different. It could be they like the "look," or the "romance" of going off road into the wilds or any number of things, but they simply bought the wrong vehicle. From time to time we get these guys and they, as a first step, come here and look for others that have the same issues. These are the guys who, as I said in my post, come from sports cars or big diesel vehicles. In truth, there is nothing that will make a 4Runner handle as well or pull as strong as what they were accustomed to driving in the past so they are disappointed. Another reason is the luxury and features department. Again, while you can add a few things to the 4Runner you will never get it to the point of a Cadillac Escalade.

Now [MENTION=95578]2013Trail[/MENTION], If you have any further comments towards me I suggest you do it in a PM or just don't post. Good luck.

 

[2013Trail]

Alright, you asked for it: Now, you wanting to "call me out" is ludicrous. I could REALLY be demeaning here but I will refrain. If you have an issue with me you best take it to PM's because I will not be this nice next time.

Good luck.

When I said "call you out" I meant take you to task. I didn't challenge you to a fist fight so calm down. Fine. I'll PM you.

 

[nevada]

Totally. Mash the $hit out of that pedal! Not 80% of the way down; 100%. Literally floor it and keep it pinned (might have to move your seat forward) and this sucker will scream (loud) and move.
45 to 70mph for the on ramp? Mash it
75-90mph to get around some jack wagon? Mash it

Philsey really nailed it: kick the freaking crap out of this truck to make it go fast, and have faith that you're not breaking it as the engine revs really high and really loud for as long as you keep that pedal pinned.

that is just a bad design plan. its a TRUCK for shitsakes.

trucks need torque. especially if you ever want to actually USE it for work. be that towing, or hauling.

you shouldnt have to rev a truck engine high to make it useful.

 

[badhabits]

that is just a bad design plan. its a TRUCK for shitsakes.

trucks need torque. especially if you ever want to actually USE it for work. be that towing, or hauling.

you shouldnt have to rev a truck engine high to make it useful.

I understand where you are coming from, but with some engines the power band is up in the upper rpm range. Have you ever ridden a 2 stroke motorcycle, driven a detroit allisen diesel in a truck, all these have high rpm power bands. I know it takes some getting used to but with the power train setup in the 4Runner once you get over the noise, and realize that you are not destroying the engine it pulls rather well for what it is.

:hiding:

 

[homeyclaus]

[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] - that was a very nice way to put it.

OP, you'll find you get better performance and possibly mileage by either slowing down, or running in 4th gear. It's not a diesel or an American v8, it'll be okay running at 3500 rpms pretty much for all of its service life. In fact, the Toyotas probably run better for longer the more high revs they get. BTW, 4th is what you end up in when you flip your shifter over to "S" under most conditions.

As far as towing mileage, you pretty much get the same mileage towing the same thing no matter what you pull with. Work is work, and calories or joules of work done will be the same. All you can do is have a more efficient drive train, or drive more efficiently.

 

[tamerunner]

that is just a bad design plan. its a TRUCK for shitsakes.

trucks need torque. especially if you ever want to actually USE it for work. be that towing, or hauling.

you shouldnt have to rev a truck engine high to make it useful.

It's not a truck, it's an SUV. Usually if you want something that is good at everything it's not great at anything. If you want to haul or tow something get a truck. Like a Tundra, F-150, F-350, Chevy 2500, whatever. But when you get those don't expect wonderful mileage or a ride like a car. The runner can tow, not awesome depending on weight, it can haul not much but it can. If you have to compromise and not have a truck and a suv and a car, well then your gonna have something that can do them all just not awesome at them all. Sorry but that's why I have a F-350 diesel to pull a trailer or haul something. I don't have a car right now and I miss it sometimes because I don't have anything to take the curves in. Just my thoughts.

 

[nevada]

It's not a truck, it's an SUV. Usually if you want something that is good at everything it's not great at anything. If you want to haul or tow something get a truck. Like a Tundra, F-150, F-350, Chevy 2500, whatever. But when you get those don't expect wonderful mileage or a ride like a car. The runner can tow, not awesome depending on weight, it can haul not much but it can. If you have to compromise and not have a truck and a suv and a car, well then your gonna have something that can do them all just not awesome at them all. Sorry but that's why I have a F-350 diesel to pull a trailer or haul something. I don't have a car right now and I miss it sometimes because I don't have anything to take the curves in. Just my thoughts.

correct. and i figured someone would say that.
perhaps its better if i said ITS NOT A CAR.

either way, its a body on frame vehicle. and its not light.

 

[1engineer]

correct. and i figured someone would say that.
perhaps its better if i said ITS NOT A CAR.

either way, its a body on frame vehicle. and its not light.

No it's not light and it is BOF. If you call it a truck that's fine, and if YOU believe trucks need torque that's fine too. We all have opinions. Now, the 4Runner has quite a bit of torque, it's just located at a different place than a V8 or diesel. If you don't like hi revving motors then I suggest you get something else, don't watch F1 or even NASCAR, no motorcycle races for you either lol!

I will give you a "Hmmm" moment though to ponder this evening.

Here it is:
At 5252 RPM, (yeah that's high) the horsepower and torque of an engine is the same number. If you have 300 HP then at 5252 RPM the torque will be 300 lb ft. Have a good evening.

 

[nevada]

No it's not light and it is BOF. If you call it a truck that's fine, and if YOU believe trucks need torque that's fine too. We all have opinions. Now, the 4Runner has quite a bit of torque, it's just located at a different place than a V8 or diesel. If you don't like hi revving motors then I suggest you get something else, don't watch F1 or even NASCAR, no motorcycle races for you either lol!

I will give you a "Hmmm" moment though to ponder this evening.

Here it is:
At 5252 RPM, (yeah that's high) the horsepower and torque of an engine is the same number. If you have 300 HP then at 5252 RPM the torque will be 300 lb ft. Have a good evening.

F1, nascar, or motorcycles arent meant to haul a load, or do any work. besides moving themselves. but nice try.

 

[1engineer]

F1, nascar, or motorcycles arent meant to haul a load, or do any work. besides moving themselves. but nice try.

Now that comment shows your ignorance. Check out wind loading vs speed. It's takes a LOT more power to go fast than pull a heavy load slow. Bugatti Veyron quad turbo has around 1000 hp and 900 lb ft torque. That 18 wheeler you passed today has probably around 400 hp and around 1000 lb ft of torque. Point is they have to overcome SIMILAR LOADING, just at different speeds.

 

[eddiebx]

Now that comment shows your ignorance. Check out wind loading vs speed. It's takes a LOT more power to go fast than pull a heavy load slow. Bugatti Veyron quad turbo has around 1000 hp and 900 lb ft torque. That 18 wheeler you passed today has probably around 400 hp and around 1000 lb ft of torque. Point is they have to overcome SIMILAR LOADING, just at different speeds.

Try towing a 5000lb trailer with an indy car, hot shot. :hand: