I would like just little bit more throttle sensitivity but the current setup is probably appropriate for the design intent of the vehicle. Come to think of it, if I did adjust the throttle the way I want I would probably complain about the brakes. So I better should just leave things alone...
First 5 months with 13 LE
- Thread starter coolslice
- Start date
JayceeP
New member
That is not true at all. I drove 13+ hours with my gf from Saint John, NB to Washington, DC (google map it). I crossed the US-CDN border, stops for gas, traffic thru Boston, shopping at Wrentham, hotel in Milford, CT, George Washington bridge in NYC, and coasted for an hour into DC and I got 11.5L/100km (20.45MPG) Whenever I wasn't stopping for gas, in traffic in Boston, in traffic leading up to the George Washington bridge, or coasting into DC I was doing anywhere from 120-130kph (75-80mph).
By the time I got back to Saint John, NB I was up to 11.8L/100km (19.93MPG) but that's because we hit up Skyline Drive in Shenandoah National Park AND had 2 more passengers on the way back from DC. Again, 75-80MPh.
My last 475 miles of mixed city and highway driving is 18.1MPG.
Guess that defeats your theory.
PS- I have full-time 4wd.
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D
dwc
Guest
I had one manual FJ, and one automatic FJ. The manual obviously felt faster because I got to row the gears when I wanted to. The auto wasn't as much fun. With the 4Runner, and this is probably wishful thinking, the auto is a little more responsive, but not as "fun" to drive as the my old FJ 6MT. That's life. Toyota will never build another 4Runner with a manual that's available in the US....
Not stirring the pot at all, so don't flame me. But I'm from a Toyota family (wife has Camry, dad has Camry, brother has Sienna, other brother has Tundra). But I get it regarding the V6 performance. Had an '03 Yukon which would kill this thing. Weighed more, had better power, and almost the same MPG. I test drove a 4Runner before buying (not the one I bought, but still a 4x4). Had "decent" power, its a test-drive, not killing it, you get the picture. You obviously can't tell the MPG during a test drive, so you trust the internet sources. Fast forward to the one I bought, and the power is lacking in my opinion. I'm not an engineer, so don't yell at me, but its under powered "in my opinion". I would have gladly stayed with GM until they opened their plant in China after taking government bailout money, so they were off my list. To me it just seems like Toyota can't make an engine that performs well for their truck/suv line. This coming from a guy who until recently lived in AL where they make their engines. Before anyone criticizes me, my brother's Tundra gets 10MPG. The dealership has reprogrammed it twice and said "some engines do well and learn, others are like yours". I mean seriously, WTF? Overall I like my 4Runner but I obviously wish certain aspects were better. Just my own personal opinion.
LightRanger
New member
Curt Sauve
New member
Take a JGC SRT8 for a test drive, it's got lots of power, lots of bling, it's what an SUV is suppose to be, aside from the high price, horrible reliability and low resale value, it's perfect.
The Yukon would have killed the 4R.... in what? Definitely a dyno or towing contest. Not in acceleration. Even the more powerful Denali with the 6.0L v8 was around 8.7s to 60 (I can't even imagine how slow the smaller v8 was).
The 5th gen 4R is just over 7s to 60.
I'm sure a huge part of your anecdote is the sound of the v8... it makes a difference. It's why ricers think their loud coffee can exhaust makes the civic mad fast yo.
FrontRange4Runner
New member
Guess ill just give my $.02 on this one. I'm trying to just be logical about some of the things I have read -no offense meant to anyone-
1. A 2003 V8 in a vehicle that weighs more and gets "almost" the same mpg....nope. If there was a V8 in 2003 that was able to achieve that........ every major manufacturer today would be utilizing said tech in their motors today. I don't think there is a single V8 SUV that currently is rated (mpg) equal to or higher than a 4R, and most are pretty far behind. Granted, the 4R is not a V8, and any modern V8 will have more power, however the word "almost" leaves a lot to be interpreted and it can make a big difference - 17MPG is "almost" 19MPG but 35MPG is not "almost" 40MPG.
2. [/QUOTE] In the real world, the T4R will struggle to reach 18, and anyone that says otherwise either doesn't drive like the rest of the world, or they are telling a bold faced lie.[/QUOTE] This is just not true. You may not be able to hit these figures, however I have no problem. After 14k(42 fill-ups) Im running %55 highway and %45 city @18.9mpg with my GF basically killing any awesome millage figures I can achieve(she drives it 80% of the time). Im also running (stock size)Cooper ATP's - E rated - which are significantly heavier and have a much more aggressive tread pattern than the stick dunflops.
3. Yes the vehicle FEELS underpowered most of the time. This is the way the transmission is programmed. It sucks, I know. However, If you get into my 1995 Subaru Impreza L 1.8L 4cyl, then you will know what "underpowered" actually is. When it was new, it made a whopping 110 hp at sea level. Today, 200k later, at 5k feet it probably makes 80. Its heavy for its size (due to AWD) and driving up into the mountains becomes more of a production than an adventure.
4. The breaks. I think they are awesome. Coming from a mostly Jeep background, I would much rather have some play in the pedal than have breaks that cant even actually engage the ABS. There is no worse feeling than having your foot on the floor and the vehicle is simply rolling through the breaks like there not really there. IMHO these breaks are very easy to modulate and when stopping power is needed, you can be confident that it is there.
Did not mean to offend or call anyone out in my reply, just saying what came to mid as I read through this one. That being said, I have to take mine in for its Toyota care tomorrow....Wish me luck!
1. A 2003 V8 in a vehicle that weighs more and gets "almost" the same mpg....nope. If there was a V8 in 2003 that was able to achieve that........ every major manufacturer today would be utilizing said tech in their motors today. I don't think there is a single V8 SUV that currently is rated (mpg) equal to or higher than a 4R, and most are pretty far behind. Granted, the 4R is not a V8, and any modern V8 will have more power, however the word "almost" leaves a lot to be interpreted and it can make a big difference - 17MPG is "almost" 19MPG but 35MPG is not "almost" 40MPG.
2. [/QUOTE] In the real world, the T4R will struggle to reach 18, and anyone that says otherwise either doesn't drive like the rest of the world, or they are telling a bold faced lie.[/QUOTE] This is just not true. You may not be able to hit these figures, however I have no problem. After 14k(42 fill-ups) Im running %55 highway and %45 city @18.9mpg with my GF basically killing any awesome millage figures I can achieve(she drives it 80% of the time). Im also running (stock size)Cooper ATP's - E rated - which are significantly heavier and have a much more aggressive tread pattern than the stick dunflops.
3. Yes the vehicle FEELS underpowered most of the time. This is the way the transmission is programmed. It sucks, I know. However, If you get into my 1995 Subaru Impreza L 1.8L 4cyl, then you will know what "underpowered" actually is. When it was new, it made a whopping 110 hp at sea level. Today, 200k later, at 5k feet it probably makes 80. Its heavy for its size (due to AWD) and driving up into the mountains becomes more of a production than an adventure.
4. The breaks. I think they are awesome. Coming from a mostly Jeep background, I would much rather have some play in the pedal than have breaks that cant even actually engage the ABS. There is no worse feeling than having your foot on the floor and the vehicle is simply rolling through the breaks like there not really there. IMHO these breaks are very easy to modulate and when stopping power is needed, you can be confident that it is there.
Did not mean to offend or call anyone out in my reply, just saying what came to mid as I read through this one. That being said, I have to take mine in for its Toyota care tomorrow....Wish me luck!
homeyclaus
New member
Most people will just simply never understand how their vehicles are designed to work. Or how they really work.
V8 engines are not V6 engines.
Gas engines are not diesel engines.
VVTi and other games can change engine performance parameters, like move torque and "horsepower" (i.e. energy output) around, change the curves, peaks, etc.
Engines all have design power and torque outputs. Whether they're gas or diesel does not matter, although the points are usually different. In Europe, there are lots of cars with 1.4L turbo diesels getting > 50 mpg, last 150,000 miles, and have a design ideal power output in the 3500 rpm range. Yes, a diesel. Applying things you heard about American V8's in the 70's to an engine designed elsewhere with more modern metallurgy and people who care about how their products are put together is pretty ignorant.
Gearing, both in the transmission and the differentials matters. As does when the transmission shifts. And how the gas pedal input is translated into fuel delivery.
And the laws of physics play a big role in all of this. I think the stupid said about the above stems from the fact that most people either didn't pay attention, didn't understand what they learned in their grade 10 physics unit, or ... I don't know.
And lastly, people buy gigantic V8's and turbo diesels, tow 5000 lbs + around while their automatic is in "D" and think that's how anyone making a V6 that can tow too should make their V6 systems work just like that too. Those people must have grown up in a world without manual transmissions, and probably drove any vehicle above the DOT class of "light duty."
I am too old to let it get to me, but as [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] said, the same people who believe the above come to internet forums looking for info, won't really search, or search poorly, and stumble upon threads full of misinformation and broscience presented as fact.
In addition to being able to "like" a post on t4r, we should be able to flag one as "bs" (either the conventional abbreviation or for "bro science"), and "fact-free opinions," which are different but related.
V8 engines are not V6 engines.
Gas engines are not diesel engines.
VVTi and other games can change engine performance parameters, like move torque and "horsepower" (i.e. energy output) around, change the curves, peaks, etc.
Engines all have design power and torque outputs. Whether they're gas or diesel does not matter, although the points are usually different. In Europe, there are lots of cars with 1.4L turbo diesels getting > 50 mpg, last 150,000 miles, and have a design ideal power output in the 3500 rpm range. Yes, a diesel. Applying things you heard about American V8's in the 70's to an engine designed elsewhere with more modern metallurgy and people who care about how their products are put together is pretty ignorant.
Gearing, both in the transmission and the differentials matters. As does when the transmission shifts. And how the gas pedal input is translated into fuel delivery.
And the laws of physics play a big role in all of this. I think the stupid said about the above stems from the fact that most people either didn't pay attention, didn't understand what they learned in their grade 10 physics unit, or ... I don't know.
And lastly, people buy gigantic V8's and turbo diesels, tow 5000 lbs + around while their automatic is in "D" and think that's how anyone making a V6 that can tow too should make their V6 systems work just like that too. Those people must have grown up in a world without manual transmissions, and probably drove any vehicle above the DOT class of "light duty."
I am too old to let it get to me, but as [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] said, the same people who believe the above come to internet forums looking for info, won't really search, or search poorly, and stumble upon threads full of misinformation and broscience presented as fact.
In addition to being able to "like" a post on t4r, we should be able to flag one as "bs" (either the conventional abbreviation or for "bro science"), and "fact-free opinions," which are different but related.
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1engineer
Moderator
Good to know that Tundra forum has not depleted your brain cells too much lol. I second the motion of an "I Call BS" button.
kowski49
New member
homeyclaus
New member
I can't spend more than 15 minutes a week there. Ford forums take the cake though, along with the older Maxima forums. It's like the stupid is click-jacking your google searches.
mdogg - My '03 Yukon pulled 15.1mpg in city, my '13 4Runner is 16.4. To me that's pretty close to say its comparable. Regarding "killing" my 4Runner, it had noticeably better acceleration, noticeably. If mine is supposed to pull the numbers you mentioned, then I guess I should take it in to have it checked. Even my wife has commented that her V6 Camry from '04 has better takeoff than my 4Runner. And for towing, well that isn't a comparison regarding weight capacity. I don't typically tow a lot (which is good) but the Yukon was rated a lot more than the current capacity on my 4runner. A Yukon and a 4Runner are different vehicles. Again, I'm overall happy with my ride which is why I bought it. I did a lot of research prior to my purchase and not just "here". I'm not dogging the product, just putting in my opinion in case others want to hear something besides that its the best product ever.
1engineer
Moderator
I understand. Do me one favor though: Put your 4Runner in manual shift mode, come to a complete stop on a deserted straight stretch and floor it. Keep it on the floor and take it to near red line and go through the gears.
If it's not quicker than your Chevy take it to the dealer then. Make sure to report back!
FrontRange4Runner
New member
Honestly it would not surprise me if a V6 Camry was faster, or at least felt faster. Its much lighter and in 2004, they were not programming vehicles for fuel economy as aggressively as they are today. As for your MPG, I get 3 - 4 avg mpg better than you pretty much all the time (with heavier, more aggressive tires I'm assuming). The problem with MPG numbers is that they are dependent on everything. Driving style (this makes the biggest difference), current weight of the vehicle, temperature, wind conditions, altitude....etc. Its possible that your Runner has a issue but my guess would be that your driving style is affecting your MPG the most. Not sure if you use the ECO light, but if you don then give it a shot for an entire tank and see if that helps. If it doesn't, then I would consider taking it in and seeing what the dealership has to say.
I don't tow with mine at all. If I was towing on a regular basis I would have gotten a Tundra (5.7!) and I think your Yukon would be a better choice for that as well. The Runner makes compromises in most categories, and I think does a pretty good job of it. That being said, this is an open forum and for it to be helpful in any way, me need multiple viewpoints. My Runner has a bunch of issues (steering column rattle, windshield creeks and pops, drive shaft thump and I noticed at the gas station yesterday that the headlights are hazing - plus 2 more that were fixed yesterday woohoo). MY 4Runner is not the best vehicle ever, and at times I am disappointed that mine seems to have basically every friggin issue that that comes up around here....I guess I got the 4Runner version of a lemon ( I bet that Salsa Red one that I test drove is perfect right now....FML) It sucks, however compared to other vehicles, these are non issues. With other manufacturers, my tranny could be going or worse. At the end of the day, its my GF (lol she notices none of the issues and she loves the vehicle) that drives it most of the time, and I have never once thought it could leave here stranded...and ultimately to me, that's what matters. LOL apparently after a few beers I just start rambling so Im gonna stop now, before this becomes complexly nonsensical.. :juggle:
Your 6th gear was shorter on the FJ than the T4Rs 5th gear. The 6MT FJ also has a 3.9 rear end versus our 3.7. Also explains why the 6MT FJ was rated at 18mpg highway versus our 22mpg. Welcome to the world of fuel efficient automatics.
tacobill
New member
Manual shift is the key. Sometimes I feel like I'm pushing it, but the engine is very happy in the 3500-4000 range and does its best work there when towing on a grade. I do wish the final gearing was slightly lower; I would sacrifice 250 rpm on the hiway @ 70 for a bit shorter gears. But, these things are quite snappy if you "wake them properly".
Wouldn't mind at least a 6 way seat adjustment on the passenger side. Seat back angle and fore and aft only seems a bit cheesy, especially on the Limited. And please Toyota, a bit more padding on the cushions.
Wouldn't mind at least a 6 way seat adjustment on the passenger side. Seat back angle and fore and aft only seems a bit cheesy, especially on the Limited. And please Toyota, a bit more padding on the cushions.
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whodat
New member
I'm normally satisfied with flooring it in "D" mode. But I tried "S" mode today. The first time, I watched the RPM meter and shifted gears way before it went to the "red" area. I mainly shifted when it sounded like the engine was "struggling" and "wanting to be shifted". I was happy that I got to 60mph faster using S mode, rather than D mode. I didn't time myself, but it's the same stretch of road that I take everyday and I usually floor it every time I drive the 4R. The second time I tried it again and felt like I was getting better and faster at shifting it. The third time I tried to shift based strictly on "feeling" when I should shift because I didn't like looking down at the RPM meter all the time. When I was still in first gear, I kept accelerating and before I knew it, the truck was shaking, I looked down at the RPM meter and I was in the red! I muttered "oh shit" and took my foot of the gas pedal and shifted to 2nd gear, and then back to D mode. The truck shook for less than a second while in the red, but I tell ya, if my wife was in the truck, she would have been giving me "the look".
Everything was normal after that, even after I mashed the gas pedal. I have a 30K check up soon, should I be concerned about anything, besides from my stupidity? :shrug:
Canazes9
New member
No, you hit the rev limiter and it retarded the ignition to drop the revs. I wouldn't make a habit of living at the rev limiter, but a momentary bump, didn't hurt a thing.
David
