Frame Rusted Through, Whats my Next Move...?

[2ndhandyotaman]

Does the annual inspection in Maryland require the shop to compare VINs on the frame and the body of the vehicle? That's pretty extensive.

No annual inspection, just whenever titles change. You need to pass the safety inspection prior to getting new plates/registration, but once a vehicle passes, there's no more inspections unless you get a repair order ( fix-it-ticket) then only the ticketed item needs to be inspected.

In the case of the Jeep, there were a few rust holes that failed the inspection. I had the bright idea that it would be easier to swap frames instead of having the rust holes fixed. I took it back to the inspection station for a re-inspection, that's when the inspector clearly saw that it had a different frame. I explained (over the phone) what I did. The next call I got was from a State Trooper wanting to know what I was doing. It went down hill from there. This was 30 years ago.

 

[Scramble]

No annual inspection, just whenever titles change. You need to pass the safety inspection prior to getting new plates/registration, but once a vehicle passes, there's no more inspections unless you get a repair order ( fix-it-ticket) then only the ticketed item needs to be inspected.

In the case of the Jeep, there were a few rust holes that failed the inspection. I had the bright idea that it would be easier to swap frames instead of having the rust holes fixed. I took it back to the inspection station for a re-inspection, that's when the inspector clearly saw that it had a different frame. I explained (over the phone) what I did. The next call I got was from a State Trooper wanting to know what I was doing. It went down hill from there. This was 30 years ago.

That sounds like a Police State. ridiculous

 

[thegipper]

How bad is your repaired frame? Post some pictures on here because if it isn't that bad (you repaired it and it passed inspection), why change anything at all?

If anything, maybe find a shop that can do a proper repair to make it last for many years. You could also spend a weekend with a grinder and clean up the frame, put a fresh coat of frame paint on it and coat it with some fluid film, LP3 or whatever rust preventative you choose.

If the rest of the truck is in great shape, I would keep it and drive it until it blows up!

 

[thegipper]

That sounds like a Police State. ridiculous

Scramble, I was thinking the exact same thing! WTF....

 

[pablopakman]

How bad is your repaired frame? Post some pictures on here because if it isn't that bad (you repaired it and it passed inspection), why change anything at all?

If anything, maybe find a shop that can do a proper repair to make it last for many years. You could also spend a weekend with a grinder and clean up the frame, put a fresh coat of frame paint on it and coat it with some fluid film, LP3 or whatever rust preventative you choose.

If the rest of the truck is in great shape, I would keep it and drive it until it blows up!

This is not a terrible idea. I will try to post pics later when i get home but i cut out about 3’ of rust from the passenger side frame right by where the muffler is in that area. So i had to cut a lot out and welded with just a 110v welder.

The frame looks just as bad on the otherside by the gas tank but inspector didnt fail it because he couldnt see any holes yet.....

I think this frame is past the POR 15 stage at this point, but i will certainly take another look at it this weekend when it warms up.

The more im looking online and contemplating this, i think it may make sense to just sell the 4runner and get a 1st gen Tundra. We already have 2 other SUVs, a 15 Forester and 10 Sequoia, so the 4runner has just been my daily driver and ofroad utility vehicle. But i could probably use a truck more and i could find a tundra with a replaced frame.

I will still post up some pics to see if you guys agree with my assesment.

 

[kolelt]

Then it changed. Both of mine are just the frame code, which is all letters after the hyphen and not unique.

The code on my '99 was VZN185L-GKMGKA

Huh? Why is there another cross member welded ?

 

[T4R2014]

Lolol, just spray some rubberized undercoat over the number bothering you. Not like the bums at the inspection station know where to look for a number on every car.

 

[catrains]

buy another truck .. if you need a truck . your wasting your time this truck could cause you to get in a very bad accident . its 18 yrs old. to late to respond to the rust issues . IMO you never did the yearly under body frame inspections.

when you get the newer truck rust proof it complete .

if you have low income buy a small car cheapo car.. trucks are expensive to operate .

 

[phattyduck]

Huh? Why is there another cross member welded ?

That's a pic of my 4Runner mid 4WD swap. The crossmember is about 6" different between 2WD and 4WD.

-Charlie

 

[pablopakman]

Ok so here are the pics of my "repair".
https://photos.app.goo.gl/OZzVfmBanIZjoIsG3

Just to clarify, I would grade these welds as POOR. The conditions were 20 degrees outside and windy, so the shielding gas was blowing around. I have a cheap borescope and looked in the frame to see all the rot on the inside which is what i cut out. The rest of the frame in that area is solid, but since it is no longer a full box its compromised for sure.

My goal was basically just to get the 1/8 steel welded into the inside then the steel covering so it would pass inspection.

There are signs of the same amount of rust on the there side, behind the gas tank, but you cant "see" any holes so the mechanic said he won't fail it. But i know that side is just as bad. Add in the fact that the rust gets worse when you go back to the spare and the trailer hitch and I think you might agree with my assessment that the frame is not really worth saving.

Again, the welds suck I know. If i were to save the frame i would grind off that outer steel i put on and put heavier steel that was one piece and get a 240v welder to do the job in the spring or summer.

 

[TheDurk]

Ok so here are the pics of my "repair".
https://photos.app.goo.gl/OZzVfmBanIZjoIsG3

Just to clarify, I would grade these welds as POOR. The conditions were 20 degrees outside and windy, so the shielding gas was blowing around. I have a cheap borescope and looked in the frame to see all the rot on the inside which is what i cut out. The rest of the frame in that area is solid, but since it is no longer a full box its compromised for sure.

My goal was basically just to get the 1/8 steel welded into the inside then the steel covering so it would pass inspection.

There are signs of the same amount of rust on the there side, behind the gas tank, but you cant "see" any holes so the mechanic said he won't fail it. But i know that side is just as bad. Add in the fact that the rust gets worse when you go back to the spare and the trailer hitch and I think you might agree with my assessment that the frame is not really worth saving.

Again, the welds suck I know. If i were to save the frame i would grind off that outer steel i put on and put heavier steel that was one piece and get a 240v welder to do the job in the spring or summer.

I think the box part is probably ok. I'd be nervous driving around on that control arm bracket, though. If it is like mine, The floor of the box rusts away where you can't see until it pulls right off of there. That's what happened to me. My frame box was in better shape than yours. I don't think those welds of yours are going to hold that thing on for long, especially if you stress it off-road.

It's not fun when that sucker lets go. Ask me how I know. If it does, don't brake, don't accelerate and steer as little as you can. Just let it coast to a stop with light braking.

 

[T4R2014]

Why not cut the bracket off and redo the floor section, then weld the bracket back on? Easier than a frame swap.

 

[TheDurk]

Why not cut the bracket off and redo the floor section, then weld the bracket back on? Easier than a frame swap.

If you're asking me...I would have had to do it on both sides and I don't weld. But I do wrench and I'm retired so I have the time. The frame was compromised in other places, too. Now, after the swap, I have a completely clean and POR-15d frame that will outlast the truck, and the cash cost, not counting my labor, was less than I was quoted for the welding patches needed on the crap frame.

Plus I was able to restore other stuff like the underbody, the fuel tank and skid, etc.

 

[T4R2014]

If you're asking me...I would have had to do it on both sides and I don't weld. But I do wrench and I'm retired so I have the time. The frame was compromised in other places, too. Now, after the swap, I have a completely clean and POR-15d frame that will outlast the truck, and the cash cost, not counting my labor, was less than I was quoted for the welding patches needed on the crap frame.

Plus I was able to restore other stuff like the underbody, the fuel tank and skid, etc.

It was for OP. A frame swap is the best bet but I've seen worse than OP's frame.

 

[pablopakman]

I could re-weld it when it warms up and then go the POR 15 route, the only issue with that is that first i would want a better welder than my 110v Hobart, which would be a couple hundred at least. Plus the cost of a gallon of POR 15 (i think runs like $150 or so) and now I'm into it about $800 ish depending on how much I spend for the welder. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for excuses to buy new tools and work on new skills...

I've gotten an offer for a pristine frame for $500, but its 14 hours away... plus the time required for the swap..

So it sounds like here is what i'm down to:
1. Buy frame and DIY swap it (long project time, low-med cost, excellent results)
2. Weld some more on the frame (low project time, low-med cost, mediocore results at best)
3. Buy another 3rd gen (no project time, high cost, mystery results)
4. Get out of 3rd Gen 4runners and into something else, pickup (like a chevy), tacoma (higher cost), or beater daily driver like a civic or corolla (100 mile daily commute).

Which option would any of you realistically go for?

I'm just looking for other opinions at this point to try and separate as much bias and pride I have wrapped into this thing.

thanks again for all of your replies

 

[MN4runnerman]

I could re-weld it when it warms up and then go the POR 15 route, the only issue with that is that first i would want a better welder than my 110v Hobart, which would be a couple hundred at least. Plus the cost of a gallon of POR 15 (i think runs like $150 or so) and now I'm into it about $800 ish depending on how much I spend for the welder. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for excuses to buy new tools and work on new skills...

I've gotten an offer for a pristine frame for $500, but its 14 hours away... plus the time required for the swap..

So it sounds like here is what i'm down to:
1. Buy frame and DIY swap it (long project time, low-med cost, excellent results)
2. Weld some more on the frame (low project time, low-med cost, mediocore results at best)
3. Buy another 3rd gen (no project time, high cost, mystery results)
4. Get out of 3rd Gen 4runners and into something else, pickup (like a chevy), tacoma (higher cost), or beater daily driver like a civic or corolla (100 mile daily commute).

Which option would any of you realistically go for?

I'm just looking for other opinions at this point to try and separate as much bias and pride I have wrapped into this thing.

thanks again for all of your replies

I’d buy a cheap beater and do a frame swap. Then you can actually take your time and not have to worry about vehicle downtime.

 

[whyzee125]

Buy a rolled 4runner on copart from somewhere that's not prone to rust and swap everything over. Part out the rest and it'll be free minus all your time.

 

[Scramble]

Damn! On both trucks. I'm not driving mine because of this little hole.
When I was wire wheeling it for Eastwoods rust converter, it pushed through. Frame is solid everywhere else including the same area by the gas tank.

 

[T4R2014]

Damn! On both trucks. I'm not driving mine because of this little hole.
When I was wire wheeling it for Eastwoods rust converter, it pushed through. Frame is solid everywhere else including the same area by the gas tank.

Not bad. Now that you have another daily I wouldn't even be in a rush. A tiny hole like that isn't anything dangerous to drive on yet though. Start fluid filming those body crevices though, I see plenty of rust beginning on those areas. And definitely not as easy to repair nicely compared to a frame.

 

[thegipper]

OP,

Yeah, your frame is pretty toasted. There isn't much "good" frame left so at this point if you want to keep the truck, I would swap a better frame into it. I am surprised it passed inspection honestly....

I like the idea of buying a decent beater for your long commute while you do the frame swap.

I remember when I first got my 97 and posted pictures on here of the frame. The amount of hysteria over the handful of surface rust areas was unreal. When I see pictures of frame rot like yours, it makes me sleep better at night because mine is no where near that bad. In fact, I don't have a single hole or weak spot anywhere, it just had a bunch of surface rust which is now gone. And yes, I inspected the inside of the frame and it's solid.

One last thing, I prefer LPS 3 for a rust preventative FWIW.