Freakin' Dealer! Huntington Beach Toyota

[rzgkane]

Bought a Porsche recently and was provided a LAW form number LAWCA-FLPRA entitled Front License Plate Acknowledgement that addresses the license plate hole issue. It either advises a purchaser BEFORE SIGNING THE SALES CONTRACT that (a) there is a front plate already installed, or
(b) it gives the buyer the right to refuse its installation. Dealers do not have to install them. None of them should unless asked to do so by the customer. Smart dealers handle it the right way. It's real easy to do.

No dealer should butcher factory wiring in any new vehicle. Period. I was a dealer tech for ten years and when a car came in with a no start condition the first thing you check for is an aftermarket alarm. They suck. The installers suck. And the manufacturers love to not pay for repairs if they have even the slightest belief the problem could be caused by something they didn't design or manufacture. Don't believe it? You've living in a dream world.

 

[yardsale]

The vehicle was trucked in from Arizona and was described to me as a new, silver TRD Off Road Premium as detailed in a copy of the window sticker given to me by the sales guy. The sticker said nothing about an alarm. I attached it to this post.

I have a copy of my text to the sales guy that I wanted no holes drilled in the front bumper nor did I want anything else added in.

Am I seriously expected to bring my trim removal tool and start looking for rat's nests of wires, tape and ty-wraps hidden behind kick panels in a new 4Runner? The push button was hidden at the bottom of the left dash panel and it wasn't until I installed the new mats that I even saw it.

I still think if you test drove it or even looked at it inside and out, this is on you. FWIW, I bought mine at Elmore up the street, and I have that same goofy alarm plug and same goofy holes drilled in my bumper. Im not pleased about mine either, but what can you do?

You can fix the front bumper by installing a new valence and cover the holes. Or maybe the dealer could do that as a goodwill measure.

 

[teotwaki]

I still think if you test drove it or even looked at it inside and out, this is on you. FWIW, I bought mine at Elmore up the street, and I have that same goofy alarm plug and same goofy holes drilled in my bumper. Im not pleased about mine either, but what can you do?

You can fix the front bumper by installing a new valence and cover the holes. Or maybe the dealer could do that as a goodwill measure.

Ultimately the dealer has the upper hand so to me documenting the wiring problem is a basic goal to defend against future warranty claim denial on related electrical issues. After that it is all about the art of compromise on both sides.

Honestly, I'd rather be moving forward with the roof rack, suspension upgrades and other more positive pursuits! :thumb:

 

[teotwaki]

Bought a Porsche recently and was provided a LAW form number LAWCA-FLPRA entitled Front License Plate Acknowledgement that addresses the license plate hole issue. It either advises a purchaser BEFORE SIGNING THE SALES CONTRACT that (a) there is a front plate already installed, or
(b) it gives the buyer the right to refuse its installation. Dealers do not have to install them. None of them should unless asked to do so by the customer. Smart dealers handle it the right way. It's real easy to do.

No dealer should butcher factory wiring in any new vehicle. Period. I was a dealer tech for ten years and when a car came in with a no start condition the first thing you check for is an aftermarket alarm. They suck. The installers suck. And the manufacturers love to not pay for repairs if they have even the slightest belief the problem could be caused by something they didn't design or manufacture. Don't believe it? You've living in a dream world.

That is very interesting about the license plate acknowledgement requirement. I was offered no such form at Toyota HB. If I understand correctly there is a CVC code buried somewhere that states a customer has to be consulted before a dealer installs a license plate bracket?

If so it means there is a law about plate brackets BUT the dealer has to provide the customer a clear choice. Any idea what the CVC is? I will Google a bit for any hits...

 

[rzgkane]

That is very interesting about the license plate acknowledgement requirement. I was offered no such form at Toyota HB. If I understand correctly there is a CVC code buried somewhere that states a customer has to be consulted before a dealer installs a license plate bracket?

If so it means there is a law about plate brackets BUT the dealer has to provide the customer a clear choice. Any idea what the CVC is? I will Google a bit for any hits...

 

[teotwaki]

rzgkane

Thanks for the lead! I found the actual law which is better than a$$umptions and bluster. The dealer did not offer me the sign off form so they are still on the hook for drilling into the bumper.


[11713.17. (a) Following the retail sale or lease of a motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, a dealer may not deliver the motor vehicle unless either of the following occurs:
(1) The motor vehicle is equipped with a bracket or other means of securing a front license plate.
(2) The dealer obtains a signed written acknowledgment from the person taking delivery of the motor vehicle acknowledging both of the following:
(A) The person expressly refused installation of a bracket or other means of securing the front license plate.
(B) The person understands that California law requires a license plate to be displayed from and securely fastened to the front of the motor vehicle and that the hardware necessary to securely fasten the front plate is available from the dealer.
(b) A manufacturer or distributor may not sell or distribute in this state a new motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, unless that motor vehicle is equipped or provided with a bracket or other means of securing the license plates.

The bumper holes are a side issue that my sales guy fobbed off as the fault of the Arizona dealer but the wiring hack is a potential warranty issue that is as yet unresolved.

 

[425Runner]

Yep, I own a Pro. Does that make my opinion any less relevant?

If Op didn’t want holes in his bumper he shouldn’t have signed and driven off. Either get and agreement to have it fixed, or pick another truck, BEFORE you drive off.

Live and learn

 

[teotwaki]

Live and learn

"Live and learn" is so true for any interaction with a dealer!


I just spoke with the dealer's customer care person and also emailed them the text of the law and the links to it as well as a copy of the form from the Porsche dealer that rzgkane posted up for us.

The dealer is replacing the front bumper, the dash panel and removing the cutoff relay crimps and wires. They will have one single crimp installed to rejoin the cut power wire.

Still on the phone with the service guy at the moment.....

If Op didn’t want holes in his bumper he shouldn’t have signed and driven off. Either get and agreement to have it fixed, or pick another truck, BEFORE you drive off.

As the law states, the dealer had to get my permission to drill holes in the bumper BEFORE I signed the purchase agreement. Exactly how was I to know what was behind the kick panel in order to "..get it fixed or pick another truck"? Stating it over and over doesn't imbue people with xray vision to find problems hidden behind panels..

 

[425Runner]

The holes were covered by a panel? Can you post up s picture, maybe we are talking about different things...

Anyways, glad they are taking care of you.

 

[teotwaki]

The holes were covered by a panel? Can you post up s picture, maybe we are talking about different things...

Anyways, glad they are taking care of you.

Thanks!

There are holes in the bottom of the dash panel where they jammed two large screws in to hold that push button (shown in the first post of the thread)

 

[425Runner]

Ah the alarm - I totally agree that it’s BS they installed that and didn’t document it - and can’t blame you for not wanting it! Hope they get that sorted.

 

[Omegat4r]

Glad you are getting it all worked out. I wished you would have started this thread earlier before I bought my 4runner as I opted for the alarm then regretted it and wanted to get rid of it right when I got home when I saw what kind of POS it was. Now reading everyone's input I am worried the alarm is going to cause issues down the road, and if it does Toyota won't cover it.

 

[Senorlechero]

rzgkane

Thanks for the lead! I found the actual law which is better than a$$umptions and bluster. The dealer did not offer me the sign off form so they are still on the hook for drilling into the bumper.


[11713.17. (a) Following the retail sale or lease of a motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, a dealer may not deliver the motor vehicle unless either of the following occurs:
(1) The motor vehicle is equipped with a bracket or other means of securing a front license plate.

"Live and learn" is so true for any interaction with a dealer!


I just spoke with the dealer's customer care person and also emailed them the text of the law and the links to it as well as a copy of the form from the Porsche dealer that rzgkane posted up for us.

The dealer is replacing the front bumper, the dash panel and removing the cutoff relay crimps and wires. They will have one single crimp installed to rejoin the cut power wire.





As the law states, the dealer had to get my permission to drill holes in the bumper BEFORE I signed the purchase agreement.

What the law says is they have to EITHER install a front license plate bracket OR have you sign a doc saying you're taking it without brackets and understand the law requires you to have a front plate.

The dealership did do EITHER of those. They installed a front plate bracket.

AND they are now replacing your bumper, because you took delivery of a vehicle THEN threw a fit about things done to the car.

Yet you still call them a stealership....sounds like they are going WAY out of their way to make sure you are happy, when they could just tell you to kick rocks.

 

[teotwaki]

What the law says is they have to EITHER install a front license plate bracket OR have you sign a doc saying you're taking it without brackets and understand the law requires you to have a front plate.

The dealership did do EITHER of those. They installed a front plate bracket.

AND they are now replacing your bumper, because you took delivery of a vehicle THEN threw a fit about things done to the car.

Yet you still call them a stealership....sounds like they are going WAY out of their way to make sure you are happy, when they could just tell you to kick rocks.

Try reading the whole thread then get back to me....

 

[Senorlechero]

Try reading the whole thread then get back to me....

already did, so I'm good.

 

[mckennar]

Ive always said you left coast dudes were a little goofy... lol

Seriously who would do that?

The closest Audi dealership that would give a loaner was in West Covina (I lived in Santa Monica). That was a 2hr drive in traffic easily, but it was my only choice if I wanted a car for the (sometimes) weeks my Audi was in the shop.

So in SoCal, 2hrs to get somewhere is kinda par for the course... but I'm with you on the promoting the dealer on social media...
[MENTION=6100]teotwaki[/MENTION] - if you're worried about reliability with one of these installed, I'm over 353k miles on my 3rd gen with some aftermarket trash 'karr' alarm installed from new. No issues with it, and I've even been deep enough into water to get the switch and control box wet a few times. The wiring looks like a bag of smashed *******s, and the crimps at the taps are pretty lacking... but it still starts reliably every morning. I had another 3rd gen with the same system, same shoddy wiring, no issues through 180k miles. I had a 1st gen with 250k miles on it with a similar system, again, no problems with it that could directly be traced back to the alarm.

I understand the reason you're mad, I would be too, but in the event that a resolution can't be reached that replaces the dash and/or body harness, I wouldn't sweat it too much.

Good luck!

 

[teotwaki]

[MENTION=6100]teotwaki[/MENTION] - if you're worried about reliability with one of these installed, I'm over 353k miles on my 3rd gen with some aftermarket trash 'karr' alarm installed from new. No issues with it, and I've even been deep enough into water to get the switch and control box wet a few times. The wiring looks like a bag of smashed *******s, and the crimps at the taps are pretty lacking... but it still starts reliably every morning. I had another 3rd gen with the same system, same shoddy wiring, no issues through 180k miles. I had a 1st gen with 250k miles on it with a similar system, again, no problems with it that could directly be traced back to the alarm.

I understand the reason you're mad, I would be too, but in the event that a resolution can't be reached that replaces the dash and/or body harness, I wouldn't sweat it too much.

Good luck!

Thanks! I do know the practical side of things and have been soldering wires and such since I was 10 years old. At one time I was NASA qualified to work with flight hardware such as the first Mars Rover, Sojourner.

On the flip side, I had my reliable '05 4Runner for 13 years & 239,000 miles by avoiding crappy installs, both mechanical and electrical. I hope to keep my 2018 4Runner as long!

 

[teotwaki]

already did, so I'm good.

I see you prefer to clown around and trivialize things, harping on just the bumper but it is only one part of the story. There are two issues at play in the thread and they are clearly stated:

- bumper drilling
- alarm installation impacts to the OEM wiring & warranty

There are numerous pictures of the crappy wiring which you also chose to ignore. If a dealer makes a number of mistakes you can't cherry pick one small point and absolve them of all transgressions. You know, those vague "things done to the car" that you alluded to but tried to ignore.

The dealer's initial reaction was exactly to tell me to "kick rocks", having no intention of "going WAY out of their way" or giving a flying frack about my happiness. They maintained that stance for the last week and doubled down on it by misrepresenting how the two issues actually occurred, pointing a finger at the "other dealer".

Finding no middle ground with them I escalated and Toyota USA took an interest and "encouraged" the dealer to reconsider their approach.

The dealer not only reconsidered but without any argument stated to me just this morning that they would replace the bumper. I even sent an email to them with the wording of the law and the PDF of the form and they said "No, we need to make this right for you. We should have talked to you first." Until now they had no idea what CVC section applied to the situation.

They have already replaced the piece of the dash that had holes drilled in it and I told them how I felt the wiring should be repaired: removal of the relay and the two bad crimps, rejoining the cut harness wire with one specific crimp approach and ty-wrapping it to the main harness to prevent further movement. The bumper install will be completed on Monday.

I guess you are excited and willing to buy cars that have been hacked without your permission but I am not.

 

[Senorlechero]

I see you prefer to clown around and trivialize things, harping on just the bumper but it is only one part of the story. There are two issues at play in the thread and they are clearly stated:

- bumper drilling
- alarm installation impacts to the OEM wiring & warranty

There are numerous pictures of the crappy wiring which you also chose to ignore. If a dealer makes a number of mistakes you can't cherry pick one small point and absolve them of all transgressions. You know, those vague "things done to the car" that you alluded to but tried to ignore.

The dealer's initial reaction was exactly to tell me to "kick rocks", having no intention of "going WAY out of their way" or giving a flying frack about my happiness. They maintained that stance for the last week and doubled down on it by misrepresenting how the two issues actually occurred, pointing a finger at the "other dealer".

Finding no middle ground with them I escalated and Toyota USA took an interest and "encouraged" the dealer to reconsider their approach.

The dealer not only reconsidered but without any argument stated to me just this morning that they would replace the bumper. I even sent an email to them with the wording of the law and the PDF of the form and they said "No, we need to make this right for you. We should have talked to you first." Until now they had no idea what CVC section applied to the situation.

They have already replaced the piece of the dash that had holes drilled in it and I told them how I felt the wiring should be repaired: removal of the relay and the two bad crimps, rejoining the cut harness wire with one specific crimp approach and ty-wrapping it to the main harness to prevent further movement. The bumper install will be completed on Monday.

I guess you are excited and willing to buy cars that have been hacked without your permission but I am not.

Nah, I'm not clowning or trivializing anything, the wiring is terrible, there is no argument against that so I didn't bring anything up. I wasn't ignoring it to try to legitimize what they did there, there just wasn't anything else to say about it.


Here's my point, at this point, they ARE going WAY out of their way to make you happy.

You took the truck with the alarm in it and the bumper drilled, so the dealership could continue to take the stance of telling you to kick rocks. And they would be well within their rights to do so. Yet you still want to disparage them, and if we're being honest PROBABLY everyone in the car business, despite the fact that they ARE going WAY out of their way to make you happy at this point.

I'm absolutely not excited or willing to buy a car that's been hacked, but I also inspect the cars before I buy them.
And if the place does alarms I tell them to get me one without it installed.

Because most places that sell alarms pre install them so they don't have to have people come back in to get it installed.

Oh, you never did acknowledge that the dealership did follow the wording of that CVC that you quoted. It said they're required to EITHER instal a front plate bracket OR have you sign a doc that says there isn't one and you know the CA law.

 

[teotwaki]

Nah, I'm not clowning or trivializing anything, blah-blah-blah

Well, if it isn't Armand-Jean du Plessis de Richelieu back to aggrandize his role as self-appointed T4R Forum Skeptic.... or Forum Legal Analyst now.

Your "points" are nothing more than circular recitations to bolster your preferred conclusions. Are all of your forum posts simply a contrarian position taken to a boringly repetitive extreme?