Front Recovery Point Interest Thread

[WindyCity4Runner]

What's the difference between those and these?

 

[MAST4R]

I have no idea. The name doesn't have much value to me.

To me they are 14mm? solid rod welded through the frame. The tensile strength is approximately 30,000lbs (Edit: I corrected this calculation for one side.) If you can break it - I don't know what you're doing - but it's a lot harder core than what i do with my 4runner. The plate recovery hooks are weaker in side loads than the OEM loops. The value of safety is important. The value of "rated" recovery hooks and bridles and ??? are great for discussion over a microbrew IPA at the Macy's overland roundup and spring kitchen design show of how you store them on your $500 molle rack. Spoiler alert - the new color for empty 2 gallon fuel tanks is forest green and subway tile backsplashes are out for 2018 .

My serious opinion is to be practical. If the OEM points are strong enough - use them. They're very strong. I'm aware of one broken one that I've ever seen even a picture of. I don't know how it happened. I've seen a lot more broken winch cables and tow straps in person. I still use them. If you have to hit the end of a tow strap at 30mph - you're doing something very wrong and you need to re-asses your recovery plan. If you're pulling with a winch - you're not getting even remotely close to the failure strength of those loops.

If it makes you feel safer - do whatever it is you feel like you need to do.

I'm glad you laughed. It was meant purely in jest about the overland thing. For me it's replacing "epic" as the most overused term.

I think the front OEM recover points are strong enough for all but the most unusual and extreme scenarios. I also think they are stronger than the common "rated" bolt on recover points as proposed here. Unfortunately I don't have a current license for solidworks so I can't do a FEA model to provide good visual proof of that. What I can say with complete confidence is that they are designed to withstand a LOT more load than simply tying down the vehicle during transport. If you take a close look - they are set through both flanges of the frame bracket they are welded to - and welded from the backside. That's how they should be engineered to maximize tearout strength. To me they are clearly engineered as tow points, not simply tie downs.

As far as math goes - if they are 14mm dia rod each side would have a cross sectional area of just under 0.25 square inches. If they are made of basic mild steel typically known as "A36" (ultimate tensile strength of 58,000-80,000lbs) they have a tensile strength at the conservative end of 58,000 x 0.25 or 14,500lbs. That's for each side of the loop. When you pull on it, you spread the load to both sides evenly in a straight forward pull. So you're approximately 29,000lbs of ultimate tensile strength in a straight line pull. That's assuming mild steel. If they're any of the higher strength steel materials it could easily be double that. I have to assume low carbon steel given that I have no idea what it is.

It's very hard to model exactly what kind of force you'll actually apply with a tow strap. I don't love them because you rely on imprecise loads and rely heavily on shock loads that are often dangerous. That's why a winch is almost always my first choice.

Normally I'd like at least a safety factor of 2, but that's not always realistic in these situations. To put the loads into a little perspective -
* a loaded 4runner is rarely over 6000lbs.
*The synthetic rope on my 9500lb winch is rated for 17,500lbs.
*Most winch mounts are attached to the front frame flange by 8 8mm bolts. Each bolt has a rated thread tearout strength of about 16kn (3,597 lbs). The entire winch mount has a tearout strength of around 28,700lbs. About the same as one of those tie down hoops. (My winch has tie plates that also run back to the mounting points that the recovery points proposed in this thread use - so it's stronger than some, but it's probably overkill. I'm overly cautious.)
*if you hit the end of a tow strap at 20mph, depending on ton of factors including the strap its self, you could easily exceed 100,000lbs of force and break almost anything including the frame its self. There is no tow hook that would withstand some types of abuse. Use a snatch strap if possible to dampen the forces, and start small. If you need 3 or 5 attempts to get unstuck - that's totally fine. Go a little harder each time rather than just flooring it on the first shot. It's always easier to spend an extra 5 minutes to get safely unstuck than trying to figure out how to get unbroken.

The "rated" recovery points are usually made from 1/2" steel plate in some 50 series material. That material has a higher yield point (- it resists bending more) but basically the same (or sometimes lower) ultimate tensile strength (when it actually fractures). The cross sectional area of the final loop they make is usually 1/2x1/2 or... 0.25 square inches. Meaning they have relatively similar ultimate tensile strength and tearout properties as your OEM recovery point.

What they DONT have is a comparably strong connection to the frame. The OEM points are welded in 4 locations that spread the loading to the frame bracket. The aftermarket ones are bolted through only 2 or sometimes 3 points with relatively small weldnuts holding them in place. In a sideways pull on the front end - that's not uncommon in my experience - you now are putting significant leverage against the first bolt forward on that recovery point. There's a good chance it will fail. It's much weaker than the OEM recover point in that orientation. That's where you'll have potential to damage your vehicle or hurt someone.

I would love to see a heavily reinforced set of mounting points with a forged, rated, tow hook. We all would. But unfortunately we don't have that option. The OEM points are strong enough for me. I would save your pennies for a winch instead of spending a bunch of $ on something that is marginally stronger in a direct forward pull and significantly weaker in side loads.

If you're really cautious, maybe use both?

Worth re-posting.

 

[rihavens]

Any word on this?

 

[codyHTX]

this is just like that damn $150 TC "hitch skid". just paint your oem hooks red if you need the extra pieces of flair....

 

[ericantonio]

Hi I know this is an older thread but I'm just searching around for stuff. Any progress on this project?

I've been reading that the eyes in front of the 5th gens are for tie-downs during shipments and not a real recovery point. So looking to get the read deal.

 

[mrblah]

Hi I know this is an older thread but I'm just searching around for stuff. Any progress on this project?

I've been reading that the eyes in front of the 5th gens are for tie-downs during shipments and not a real recovery point. So looking to get the read deal.

technically they are only tie downs, but people have been using them as recovery points for years.

I was interested in this, but my bumper and suspension reservoir both use the same mounting point as this, so no bueno for me

 

[Baystate4Runner]

...I've been reading that the eyes in front of the 5th gens are for tie-downs during shipments and not a real recovery point. So looking to get the read deal.

Regarding the OEM front tie down points - you might want to read the quoted parts of post #102.

 

[ericantonio]

Regarding the OEM front tie down points - you might want to read the quoted parts of post #102.

Whew! That was a lot of MATH!
Thanks for that pointer.

 

[rageandlove]

Hi I know this is an older thread but I'm just searching around for stuff. Any progress on this project?

I've been reading that the eyes in front of the 5th gens are for tie-downs during shipments and not a real recovery point. So looking to get the read deal.

Check out this post (about 3 posts above).

 

[ericantonio]

Check out this post (about 3 posts above).

Thanks!! Baystate pointed me to the same thread. I appreciate it you guys! Awesome

 

[Kfog375]

whew, almost 2 years later we're almost there. sorry for the lack of updates, this was put on the back burner..... again.

Final load testing on the production revision resulted in a shackle failure at 21000 lbs. We're listing these with a 10k WLL with a 2:1 safety factor.

They will sell as a pair in raw A572-50 steel, with class 10.9 hardware, and include shipping at $150.

I have the first 10 sets cut, i'm prepping hardware and will open up orders in the coming week.

 

[Titanpat57]

I don't like it.....

whew, almost 2 years later we're almost there. sorry for the lack of updates, this was put on the back burner..... again.

Final load testing on the production revision resulted in a shackle failure at 21000 lbs. We're listing these with a 10k WLL with a 2:1 safety factor.

They will sell as a pair in raw A572-50 steel, with class 10.9 hardware, and include shipping at $150.

I have the first 10 sets cut, i'm prepping hardware and will open up orders in the coming week.

I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!


Let us know when order open.....thanks!!

 

[MikeMikeMikeT4R]

Kfog375 are these recovery points compatible with the kdss system? Thanks

 

[idawdle]

Interested. Please update when you are ready to take orders... or if you want Guinea Pigs to get stuck/rescued with them.

 

[Bruskie456]

The timing of this couldn't have been any better. I just picked up my 19' Offroad Premium yesterday! Wahooooo

I'm in for a set

 

[nytefog]

Please add me to the list of people who like to purchase the recovery point!

Will they come painted or bare steel? Also, will hardware be included?

 

[Okusputokus]

IN as long as KDSS comatible

 

[Horsethief]

VERY interested! I just got a '13 TE two months ago and am starting the modding. I already have sliders on the way, and have been thinking about what to do for front recovery.

 

[Daikon]

Interested to know if these will clear the reservoir mounts for shocks w/ remotes resi's.

 

[Kfog375]

KDSS compatible

Pending the brackets on resis Ima give that a maybe. Email me photos and I can give a good idea. [email protected]

Attendees to Lone Star Toyota Jamboree will be the first to have the opportunity to snag these. I’ll have 10 sets available there, once I get back they’ll go live on the website.