Front Recovery Point
- Thread starter DavidR1
- Start date
jafrush
New member
Hmm. Towing though. I'd say their definition of towing is probably a bit different than a kinetic recovery from thick mud, uphill, in the snow. With a vehicle that is 2,000 pounds over weight lol.
Either way, I like them. :cheers:
Jetboy
New member
2 x 12mm grade 8.8 bolts only have a shear strength of ~ 14,200lb combined. So if you had to choose between a bolt on point and the OEM one - the bolt on is only about half the strength. It's only as good as it's 2 or 3 bolts holding it in place. In a sideways pull the bolt on ones are probably less than 1/4 of the strength of the OEM hoop.
jafrush
New member
I think you're comparing two different things though. The weld on the hoop is the strength of the hoop, not the hoop itself. I've personally seen broken hoops. They don't break in the middle of the hoop, they break where the weld fails and the hoop separates from the frame. The hoop is still in one piece.
ElectroBoy
Banned
Jetboy, you gotta stop bringing science, engineering, and strengths of materials into this argument. It’s just not as sexy as red and shiny.
teotwaki
Senior Member
Can you please share the part number? The ARB web site is useless
billiamwu
New member
Yea that site is a mess. I ordered mine from OK4WD, but I don't see them on there now.
Here's the write-up about them on trail4runner.com:
ARB Recovery Point Addition on a 5th Gen 4Runner, Instllation Instructions
They come individually, not in pairs. I think the part numbers are ARB-2821020 and ARB 2821030.
DigitalRJH
New member
Not saying the factory tie downs are recovery or not but just offering my experience. Pulled a concreted in basketball hoop out of the ground with them that I had to rock and yank on a few times to get it to budge.
you've seen them broken on a 5th gen, or 4th gen?
jafrush
New member
I think it may have been a 4th gen, but it was a while back.
SpeedyKevin
New member
Not necessarily endorsing the factory points but I believe the 4th gen's tow points are welded differently than the 5th gen
jafrush
New member
Ill have to go crawl under our 4th gen and look
teotwaki
Senior Member
Thanks for the quick response. I've sent an email to ARB-USA and will see what they can say about the availability of the brackets.
Horsethief
New member
I watched a video on YT a while back while I was researching recovery gear. It was put on by a Canadian company that made straps and hitches.
They had an older Ram 2500, with a class 5 receiver hitch. They had one end of the truck anchored to a massive tractor, the other was attached to a Cat bulldozer. The had the dozer pull on the Ram to test the recovery gear. They had a force meter on it, and IIRC they got up to 28k lbs before there was a failure. The failure was not any of the gear, interestingly enough it was the hitch that failed. The failure point was not the bolts holding it to the frame, the hitch literally ripped apart at the welds.
Now granted, I'm not an engineer, but that lends credence to what I've heard anecdotally about bolts often being stronger than welds.
Now I bought a pair of D Rings and a tree saver strap to use as bridle on mine, so I'll roll the dice on them if I had to. I'd feel more confident on a burlier set of bolted on hooks, though.
I find it sad that a Jeep Compass has more legit front recovery points than our Runners.
They had an older Ram 2500, with a class 5 receiver hitch. They had one end of the truck anchored to a massive tractor, the other was attached to a Cat bulldozer. The had the dozer pull on the Ram to test the recovery gear. They had a force meter on it, and IIRC they got up to 28k lbs before there was a failure. The failure was not any of the gear, interestingly enough it was the hitch that failed. The failure point was not the bolts holding it to the frame, the hitch literally ripped apart at the welds.
Now granted, I'm not an engineer, but that lends credence to what I've heard anecdotally about bolts often being stronger than welds.
Now I bought a pair of D Rings and a tree saver strap to use as bridle on mine, so I'll roll the dice on them if I had to. I'd feel more confident on a burlier set of bolted on hooks, though.
I find it sad that a Jeep Compass has more legit front recovery points than our Runners.
STX4Runner
New member
This has been beat to death on the forum, but the stock recovery loops are 100% adequate as recovery points. If you damage them you did something waaaay wrong. To get enough force on them to damage them would require being totally bogged in mud and have your recovery vehicle get some crazy running start to get you out. Even then you probably wouldn't damage them.
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teotwaki
Senior Member
So if the hitch ripped off the welds at 28,000 pounds how is that worse than "... 2 x 12mm grade 8.8 bolts with a shear strength of ~ 14,200lb combined"?
Teamoatmealpie
New member
Me thinks funny when peps use tow strap as snatch strap, then wonder what went wrong....
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dw1xZxUssfs" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dw1xZxUssfs" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
MAST4R
New member
Add me to the factory camp. I can vouch for a Subaru eye bolt, by the way, used in a very hard pull at 30 degrees on a vehicle with a curb weight of 4,200 (Tribeca). It bent a little and was retired but that's it.
First of all, failed old equipment does not count. Once corrosion takes its toll, everything changes. Then a new point properly mounted to healthy frame may indeed outdo the compromised factory points.
Second, I am fine with ARB and their point. I am sure they did their homework.
Third, the recovery point that started the thread is advertised as:
"***not intended for use with soft shackles***
***NO SIDELOADING***
WLL: 10,000lbs, 2:1 safety factor per point"
Treaty Oak Offroad — GX460/5th gen 4runner Recovery Point
Wait, 10,000lbs rating with a 2:1 factor? Looks like that is for one but the proper for our rigs strap/rope is the ARB 17,600lb one. The recovery hooks better be rated for a lot more than that. Quality shackles have a 5 or 6:1 safety factor.
Not rated for soft shackles? Lost me right there, as well.
"NO SIDELOADING" because a 4R is so likely to get stuck right in the middle of a big dirt road (maybe, with stock tires on snow!).
In other words, the Subaru eye bolt is better than this supposed 4Runner recovery point in case of a really difficult pull.
Now that is a fancy tow point. The recovery point is already put on in Tahara.
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teotwaki
Senior Member
"Soft shackles" are not bad but are often billed as a new wondertool that solves every problem of hooking up to vehicles lacking engineered recovery points
From one web site:
"Soft Shackles will help make any vehicle recovery easier. Forget about trying to find a solution to connect a steel shackle to a vehicle without recovery points. Soft Shackles wrap around anything such as recovery points, roll bars, axles and bumpers. They are made from lightweight, heavy-duty SK75 Synthetic rope with a breaking strength of 16,000 lbs- 89,000 lbs. so you can be sure that they will not break even in the toughest recovery situations. They can be used with recovery ropes, tow ropes, winch ropes or whatever recovery tools you have and are perfect for use with hooks and Safety Thimbles.
Soft Shackles replace Anchor Shackles and D-Ring shackles in just about every application!"
It is really a matter of knowing when to use a steel shackle or a soft shackle. Soft shackles need careful inspection for nicks, cuts, fraying or other damage. My concern is that one could become unfastened without sufficient tension.
I am guessing that ARB wants to limit pulls to a forward direction and feel a soft shackle might introduce or allow some angle of pull.
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