Full Time 4WD On SR5?!?

[Whiplash Willy]

I was hoping you guys could help answer some questions I have on the part time vs full time 4wd options on the 5th gens, since toyota's website, and the dealerships don't know...

First off, the way to tell if a 5th Gen is Part or Full Time 4wd is by the 4wd selector on the center console in front of the gear selector right?

Part Times have the manual selector like in this picture:

And Full Timers have the round knob selector:

Is this correct?

I thought that Full Time 4wd was only available on the Limited model, as an option, and that SR5s and Trails had the Part time. However, I believe, all of the SR5s I have seen at my local dealer have the round knob 4wd selector, and are therefore full time. Is this an option as well now on SR5s, or are all the 2013 SR5s like this?

For me, I rather have the Part Time for a few reasons:
1. A manual selector would be more reliable
2. I would like the option of running in RWD, and am guessing it would be a little more fuel efficient then running in 4wd full time.

Also, if anyone has links to good info on the 5th Gen's 4WD system, I would love to see them, I haven't much good info out there yet.

 

[Jeremy556]

The SR5 is part time 4wd.

One of the changes for 2013 model year on SR5 was to change from a lever to a knob. It does NOT have a center differential like the limited.

 

[1engineer]

"The reason the 5th gen runners have cheaper interior quality, no LED Tails, No Projector Headlights, No Center Diff is because toyota had to cut production costs to keep them at a specific price point. We won't likely see newer models come out with HIDs and LED tails, or any other niceties in future models, unless they raise the price significantly, which is unlikely, or they figure out how to build them for less, which is also unlikely.

We can just look forward to cheaper and cheaper versions, with less options as time goes on, until toyota finally decides to discontinue the 4runner.

If only toyota would offer offer these with a D4D, then consumers might start gaining interest again in a rugged body on frame SUV, that actually gets decent mileage...Of course that would probley increase the cost of the 4runner too much."

You posted the above in another thread previously.

1. SR5 - Part time 4WD with lever until 2013. 2013 up has knob selector but still part time. Even with lever it still has FJ style actuator which is electric.

2. TE - Part time 4WD (same as SR5) actuated with lever. Big difference is KDSS is available on TE.

3. LE - Full time 4WD. Has mode selector knob and center diff.

All get then same fuel efficiency. While you claim to know what you are talking about in your previous post I quoted above there are many changes you don't know about. No LED's? Upper brake light is LED.
I will gladly delete the HID's and LED's to get the real changes that happened on a 5th gen, such as stronger frame and differentials. If you want the fancy bling I hear Jeep is coming out with a new JGC that has all that stuff.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

Thanks for the clarification...that makes sense now. That is too bad, I much rather have the lever, vs the knob....

I am assuming the Lever is physically connected to the transfer case.

How does the knob physically select the modes? Is it some sort of electromechanical device, or is it vacuum operated?

It will be hard enough for me to find a SR5 with 3rd row seats (For the twins!), but now I have to find a 2012 or older one to get the lever.... I guess it isn't a deal breaker..

 

[1engineer]

Thanks for the clarification...that makes sense now. That is too bad, I much rather have the lever, vs the knob....

I am assuming the Lever is physically connected to the transfer case.

How does the knob physically select the modes? Is it some sort of electromechanical device, or is it vacuum operated?

It will be hard enough for me to find a SR5 with 3rd row seats (For the twins!), but now I have to find a 2012 or older one to get the lever.... I guess it isn't a deal breaker..

No. Either the lever or the knob (on part time applications) is connected to an actuator which is electric either way. The only advantage to a lever is - there is no advantage. Read this thread and click on [MENTION=8206]harper7[/MENTION]'s link to learn more that you want to know about differential actuators.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

My post in the other thread about the 2014s, was more about the automotive industry in general, not just specifically the 5th Gen Runner, building their cars cheaper and cheaper then in the past. I don't know much about 5gen runners, and I am in the research process before buying one.

I would like to check out that link to the thread on the diff actuators, in your last post. Would you mind reposing that?

Thanks!

 

[eddiebx]

No. Either the lever or the knob (on part time applications) is connected to an actuator which is electric either way. The only advantage to a lever is - there is no advantage. Read this thread and click on [MENTION=8206]harper7[/MENTION]'s link to learn more that you want to know about differential actuators.

I always thought the 10'-12' SR5/TE transfer cases have a completely manual lever where the shifting gizmos are physically moved by the lever itself? And that only the front differential/axle coupling widget is what is electrically actuated? (I don't remember what it was called but I read it in a link that Harper7 had posted some time ago)

So now that the lever is gone in the 13'+ SR5's transfer case, does that mean there would be an additional actuator in the transfer case in place of the lever (in order to mimic the shifting motions)?

Therefore, if all of the above is true, then we can conclude that the TE would still have an ever so slight advantage of one less electronic actuator to go bad :thumb3: (shameless plug for the trail edition)

Sorry if that is a confusion question, I haven't really learned all the technical terms for 4WD stuff yet

 

[1engineer]

My post in the other thread about the 2014s, was more about the automotive industry in general, not just specifically the 5th Gen Runner, building their cars cheaper and cheaper then in the past. I don't know much about 5gen runners, and I am in the research process before buying one.

I would like to check out that link to the thread on the diff actuators, in your last post. Would you mind reposing that?

Thanks!

My bad. Here ya go post #12 for Gary's link: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/127363-electronic-vs-manual-4wd.html

 

[1engineer]

I always thought the 10'-12' SR5/TE transfer cases have a completely manual lever where the shifting gizmos are physically moved by the lever itself? And that only the front differential/axle coupling widget is what is electrically actuated? (I don't remember what it was called but I read it in a link that Harper7 had posted some time ago)

So now that the lever is gone in the 13'+ SR5's transfer case, does that mean there would be an additional actuator in the transfer case in place of the lever (in order to mimic the shifting motions)?

Therefore, if all of the above is true, then we can conclude that the TE would still have an ever so slight advantage of one less electronic actuator to go bad :thumb3: (shameless plug for the trail edition)

Sorry if that is a confusion question, I haven't really learned all the technical terms for 4WD stuff yet

Sorry Eddie, on both the TE and the SR5 lever or knob shift versions the Automatic Disconnecting Differential is electric. If this foes then you will not be able to lock or unlock into or out of 4WD. So yes, they bot have to have actuators. Really no advantage for the TE unless you count a rotary switch over the lever failing. I have broken a lever before on a Jeep I owned once. Used a shoelace to hold the stub into place until I got back to civilization. Now you know why I drive Toyotas, Hondas and Subarus.

 

[veloindy]

Sorry Eddie, on both the TE and the SR5 lever or knob shift versions the Automatic Disconnecting Differential is electric. If this foes then you will not be able to lock or unlock into or out of 4WD. So yes, they bot have to have actuators. Really no advantage for the TE unless you count a rotary switch over the lever failing. I have broken a lever before on a Jeep I owned once. Used a shoelace to hold the stub into place until I got back to civilization. Now you know why I drive Toyotas, Hondas and Subarus.

When I was test driving, the lever engaged much quicker than the knob, every time. Not sure why, since they're both in fact electric..

 

[mareyest]

(sorry for the bad english)

some markets (countries) sells SR5 with full time 4WD;
for example, my country, Chile; my SR5 has full time 4WD and all 4x4 SR5 here has full time 4WD ;

Another example: in the US, 4Runner Limited comes with standar XREAS; here in Chile, 4Runner Limited doesn't have xreas

i think is the marker policy (some, in my opinion, weird): another example, here you can buy a LX 570 new or used, but you can't buy a Land Cruiser 200, Toyota only sells in the SUV 4x4 segment: Terios, Rav4, 4Runner, FJ Cruiser, Land Cruiser "Prado" (AKA LC150), and Sequoia; in the other hand, Lexus sells the lx570 here in Chile)

 

[eddiebx]

...I have broken a lever before on a Jeep I owned once. Used a shoelace to hold the stub into place until I got back to civilization. Now you know why I drive Toyotas, Hondas and Subarus.

Because you don't wear shoes with shoelaces anymore? :shrug:



Thanks for the link Greg, that is the exact one I was thinking about, the mystery part is called the A.D.D.

I might've not phrased my initial question clearly so I snooped around in the FSM to try to describe better what I meant.

If you look at the attached picture, the left half is what is inside the old SR5/TE transfer case, which is used to shift it between 2Hi, 4Hi and 4Lo; seem to be just two shift forks attached to the lever.

The right side of the picture is what is found inside the Limited transfer case, which appears to be an electronically actuated shift assembly. Now I understand that the LE is different in that it has a center differential and only shifts between H4F, H4L and L4L; but I am guessing the shifting between high and low is probably somewhat similar?

So basically what I meant to ask is, what does the 13+ SR5 use now that the lever is not there, maybe something similar to that "transfer shift actuator assembly"? This is what I meant about the 13+ TE possibly having one less part to break

 

[4RBob]

that front actuator is electronic from the transfer case to the front diff. so I believe that part would be the same (TE/'10-12 SR5 vs '13 SR5).

the transfer case LEVER (TE/'10-12 SR5) is direct to the transfer case (you can feel this), while the transfer case KNOB is electronic to the transfer case.

correct?

so, TE/'10-12 SR5 would have one less electronic part to possibly go wrong?.... not that there aren't plenty more electronics in the 4WD system that could fail anyways.

 

[Quentin]

My impression was that the '10-'12 SR5 and all models of TE actually used the lever to engage the transfer case in 4H and 4L. The axles are engaged to the front differential via an electronic solenoid when the vehicle has detected that the transfer case has been engaged. You'll notice that the light on the dash flashes before going solid. It flashes as it attempts to lock the front axles to the diff pinions. I imagine these are splined and it takes a moment or two to get everything to fall into place. I'll have to check the TIS at work next week.

 

[1engineer]

My impression was that the '10-'12 SR5 and all models of TE actually used the lever to engage the transfer case in 4H and 4L. The axles are engaged to the front differential via an electronic solenoid when the vehicle has detected that the transfer case has been engaged. You'll notice that the light on the dash flashes before going solid. It flashes as it attempts to lock the front axles to the diff pinions. I imagine these are splined and it takes a moment or two to get everything to fall into place. I'll have to check the TIS at work next week.

Yes, I should have put above "Pulling the lever or turning the dial has to energize an electrical component or you will not have 4WD." Friday evening sloppiness lol.