Good and Bad Rant

[1engineer]

There are many good threads on owner's opinions about the 4Runner. That said, whenever someone says "The paint sucks," or "The paint is soft" or "The transfer case lever is hard to shift" or "The doors are made of 20 gage steel" or "The 4Runner rides good" or "The skid plates are good" does not help. Those are just general statements with nothing to compare your opinions against.

Compare these opinions and decide which one is better:

1. "The paint sucks."
2. "The paint seems softer than my Mercedes C class and also My Ford Focus as I have washed them both the same for the last year and the 4Runner has more light scratches."

So which statement will help either the current owners or in most cases, judging by the number of visitors viewing at any one time, the future owners?

Again, there are many knowledgable owners here that could make or break the decision to buy one of these vehicles or help the current owners trying to decide something as simple as new tires. I personally am guilty of this sometimes although I try to give as much information as I can.
If you have something to say, good OR bad, at least compare it to something else so it will help others in their decision making.

FWIW I currently have a Toyota, two Hondas and a Subaru. The Subaru Impreza seems like it has the hardest paint followed by the Toyota 4Runner. The Hondas seem to scratch easiest. I wash them all the same way with the same type of rags and cleaners.

Oil changes and gas milage -

Apparently some people think they are "Bob is the Oil Guy" when talking about oil changes. Please list your qualifications and education and I will then compare it to the drivetrain engineers at Toyota and decide who to believe. Oh, and because your dad and grandfather changed it every 5K 30 years ago is not a qualification.
Gas Milage depends on so many variables such as driving style, location, season, maintenance etc. Comparing your personal gas milage with someone else is NOT right the right way to go about it. The only good way is to compare it to an AVERAGE of the other owners.

Lastly, read the manual.

Thanks for reading my rant. G

 

[KCcarguy]

I'm not sure how much detail you need to justify a comment on the paint. In my comment I detailed what I use to wash the car........I would assume people would understand this is not the first car most of us have owned. There is a lot of whining on these types of threads, but there's also a lot of fanboyism.

 

[scanny]

I agree with 1engineer that it's always better when people back theirs opinions with some examples. But it's Internet and I guess we can't regulate people here, readers shoud always use their brains when reading any Internet forums and there's no substitute for that : )

By the way I noticed that owners of Black T4R complain about paint most. Other colors seem to be fine.

 

[Alt Freak]

By the way I noticed that owners of Black T4R complain about paint most. Other colors seem to be fine.

Probably because black will show scratches more than other colors

 

[offroadingatc]

Good post, I agree with basically everything you said

Re: the paint, Japanese cars have notoriously bad paint, and the 4runner is no exception. My main source of that info is my detailer, but also personal experience.

 

[KCcarguy]

Probably because black will show scratches more than other colors

True. I've also heard the non-metallic paints have no clearcoat.

 

[Beakerbox]

You make a good point - and I generally agree. However there is a flipside to your argument. Sometimes people with good knowledge or experience could show some more patience with new members. It's not always as easy to search for stuff on here as you would think.. If you think about it - every question that could be asked probably has been asked and pretty much every new thread started is greeted with "use the search engine" At a certain point you have to accept that there will be duplicate discussions and sometimes it's ok for that to take place - experiences and results change over time and some topics are always worth the banter. So short of turning this into a Wiki some folks are going to have to come to peace with some questions that may not always be ideal but nonetheless serve the purpose of a "forum".

As for paint.. Yes Black is the worst for showing surface swirls etc.. But also consider - paint on all new cars will be softer than on used cars and how you treat your paint in the first few months will determine a lot.

 

[1engineer]

True. I've also heard the non-metallic paints have no clearcoat.

The black does have clearcoat. Take a piece of fine sandpaper (400-1000grit) and pick a place under the hood or in a door jamb next to the hinges. If it sands white, you have clearcoat.

 

[KCcarguy]

The black does have clearcoat. Take a piece of fine sandpaper (400-1000grit) and pick a place under the hood or in a door jamb next to the hinges. If it sands white, you have clearcoat.

Cool. Do you not have issues with your paint? I thought I was being careful....apparently not. Any advice?

 

[offroadingatc]

sometimes people with good knowledge or experience could show some more patience with new members. It's not always as easy to search for stuff on here as you would think.. If you think about it - every question that could be asked probably has been asked and pretty much every new thread started is greeted with "use the search engine" at a certain point you have to accept that there will be duplicate discussions and sometimes it's ok for that to take place - experiences and results change over time and some topics are always worth the banter.

+1.
.

 

[offroadingatc]

The black does have clearcoat. Take a piece of fine sandpaper (400-1000grit) and pick a place under the hood or in a door jamb next to the hinges. If it sands white, you have clearcoat.

Mine is definitely clear coated... Could be another differencebetween US and Canadian models

All same year Toyota paints probably swirl almost equally but black shows it like crazy

 

[1engineer]

Cool. Do you not have issues with your paint? I thought I was being careful....apparently not. Any advice?

I have the 5-10 rule which I'll explain in a moment. I have owned many vehicles over the last 30 or so years. One thing though is I always put a lot of miles fairly quick on them. My 4Runner is now eight months old with right at 20K on it. I will probably trade it between 80-100K between 3-4 years. Driving this much and using it for my lifestyle makes it hard to keep a vehicle blemish free, so I have developed what is known as the 5-10 rule:

5-10 Rule by 1Engineer

1. Blemish, scratch, ding or general appearance flaw noticed on vehicle.
2. Stand 5 feet away. Can you still see it? If so go to step 3.
3. Stand 10 feet away. Can you still see it? If so, fix it. If not, no worries.

Very few people ever get closer than 5-10 feet away from your vehicle with the exception of yourself. I have learned to live with the minor marks because when clean and 10 feet away most cannot notice. Now, if I owned a vehicle that I only put a few thousand miles on each year and I was going to keep it for 10 years I would change my rules but for now, 5-10 just adds character.

I also use ICE detailer once every few weeks. Takes me five minutes and hides a lot of those little scratches.

 

[KCcarguy]

I plan on keeping mine for the long haul. I'll probably stop using it as a DD after the miles get higher. I'm very meticulous about keeping my cars nice, and I thought keeping it washed and waxed was a good thing. As I said before, I 'll just stop hand washing/waxing/ drying......too bad hecause it just doessn't get as clean.

 

[Antman]

Anyway Engineer1...this is the interwebs, and I can see your frustration, but asking someone to respond like its a 12 page installation manual is going to be a continuing source of aggravation for you, I'm afraid. I think you have to consider the source (and I'm not saying that in a derogatory way) and realize some will invariably have better or more experience than others, and those are the folks that may be a great source of the info that you will need to make an informed decision.

Good point though, and hopefully it make others think about a response (but I doubt it)

Pat

Once an Engineer, always an Engineer. Can't fault the guy- he kinda reminds me of a Mt Biking Spock. "Bike long and prosper", 1Engineer...

 

[offroadingatc]

I plan on keeping mine for the long haul. I'll probably stop using it as a DD after the miles get higher. I'm very meticulous about keeping my cars nice, and I thought keeping it washed and waxed was a good thing. As I said before, I 'll just stop hand washing/waxing/ drying......too bad hecause it just doessn't get as clean.

Ultimately hand washing is the best possible way to clean your car... certainly easier on the paint than even a touchless car wash. Just make sure you use two buckets... one with soap and one with clear water to rinse in, that way you aren't putting dirty (and thusly scratchy) soapy water on your car. if you can tolerate water marks not drying your car eliminates more chances for scratching, but I cant do that

 

[1engineer]

Once an Engineer, always an Engineer. Can't fault the guy- he kinda reminds me of a Mt Biking Spock. "Bike long and prosper", 1Engineer...

Nan-nu, Nan-nu. Oops that was Mork from Ork, not Spock. My bad.

 

[rickwol]

You might want to try Turtle's Black Box
Black Box - Frequently Asked Questions

I used to use it on our black '10 Toyota Corolla before we sold it. It did improve the shine and covered some extremely minor hair like scratches but I swore I would never own another black vehicle. The only thing to keep in mind is that with that product you are basically covering up the "white" scratches in the clearcoat with a form of dye. Still, I found it improved the appearance.

 

[sandcrawler]

Just make sure you use two buckets... one with soap and one with clear water to rinse in, that way you aren't putting dirty (and thusly scratchy) soapy water on your car.

a grit guard in a single bucket also works well.

 

[SoCalSnake]

Have had numerous cars german to japanese to american with various paint quality.

Have to agree with 1engineer's pov. Its hard to weed through everyone's opinion on paint quality.

My .02 fwiw...

Short of driving a tank, no paint on any car when travelling 75mph+ can repel a 2x2 cm pebble without some paint chip/damage.

 

[harper7]

Have had numerous cars german to japanese to american with various paint quality.

Have to agree with 1engineer's pov. Its hard to weed through everyone's opinion on paint quality.

My .02 fwiw...

Short of driving a tank, no paint on any car when traveling 75mph+ can repel a 2x2 cm pebble without some paint chip/damage.

It has alot to do with the epa VOC paint regulations that went into affect in 09' or 10'. Auto manufactures were forced into using water based paints that were health and ozone friendly.Water based paints chip much easier and complaints are many for all vehicles. They use to use reducers and better hardeners in the solvent based paints.Toyota completes water-based car paint rollout

My 06 4Runner had much more durable paint then my 10 4Runner as I had as many chips on the hood in the first year as I had in almost 5 years of owning the 06.
Toyota, Ford, Mazda, GM: Using Water-Borne Car Paint : TreeHugger
I read somewhere that the Tahara Lexus plant where our 4runners were built changed over in 07 too.

What year is your Subaru Engineer and when did they switch over?