Guidance with modifying a 4runner

[tnine]

Hey guys,
I purchased a 2014 SR5 4Runner last Friday, and I love it! I've already been on several muddy paths with some friends over the weekend. I'm an avid hiker and camper, and I prefer to travel off the beaten path. I want to modify it to add a bit more capability in reaching my destinations, and I am completely ignorant on a lot of these modifications. I would love some guidance from people with a bit more experience.


Requirements

1. Ability to navigate the rough forrest access roads in Colorado. Some of these roads have some large rocks in them. 1' + in height, and 1-2 feet in diameter large.
2. Some off roading. I don't intend to do any rock crawling. Just get from A->B for camping/hiking
3. Retain most of the on road performance. The stock suspension handles very well at highway speeds. I'd like to retain or improve that performance as much as possible.
4. Ability to get pull myself out when I'm stuck since it's usually just 1 vehicle

Possible Modifications

1. Scrape plates
2. Sliders with steps
3. Baja (or similar) safari style roof rack
4. 4' High life jack with synthetic cable. From my understanding, it's not as dangerous as steel cable during a break, and it's lighter for lugging around. I'll also buy a block/tackle or pulleys to use with the high lift as a come along (5 ton rating on all components for safety). I grew up on a farm, and we used a high life jack with block and tackle to get our tractors out successfully during rainy days, so I'm pretty sure I can a much lighter 4runner out of the mud.
5. AT tires with no modifications to the suspension and rims, or a small 2" lift kit with wider tires. Not sure yet, since I don't really fully understand the implications.

I'm on the fence on adding a 2" lift, and wider tires. I'm concerned with a severe degradation of on road performance since 90% of our trips will be on road. Eventually, I'll get a winch and and after market bumper. However, to keep costs down, I'm probably going to just use the high jack as a come along to start with.

How have people modified their 5th gen to be more off road capable, but still have similar on road performance characteristics? If I understand correctly, with larger tires, the speedometer will be off. Is this offset a constant speed, such as always 5 mph low, or does it change as the speeds increase?

Thanks in advance for any advice/guidance.

Todd

 

[Intruder]

I think your list looks pretty good for what you want to do. I wouldn't even worry about lifting. One thing I'd change is not to get sliders with steps. Just get bump out sliders with tread plating or something. The steps that hang down can get stuck on rocks and possibly cause damage. Start with the tires and Hi-Lift and make sure you know how to use the Hi-Lift properly by practicing with it in a controlled situation, not using it for the first time out in the boonies at 3am.

If you change tire size it'll be a constant difference on the speedometer. For example, going from 265/70/17 to 285/70/17 should be a 3% difference if i recall correctly, so when your speedometer says you're doing 100 you're actually doing 103.

 

[1engineer]

Tires.

Just remember that every single thing you hang on your truck (skids, sliders, rack) will make your truck less efficient and it will be noticeable.

 

[Okki]

Tires,
Sliders,
Beefier skid plates.

The 4Runner is a very capable platform out of the box. The stock skids will do the job unless you do really dumb things. You may also want to grab a handheld CB if you are going to be out on the trails with friends. Communication with a spotter will allow you to prevent some of the "dumb" situations and if you eventually go to a hardwired unit you can still use the handheld unit for your spotter.

Okki

PS: Head up the trails with buddies who have proper recovery gear and know how to use it. Get some chains, winch rope and tree-saver straps to self recover with your hi-lift if you plan on heading out on your own.

 

[DesertCanyons]

Upgrades for new T4R

Intruder is right. Skip the steps on the sliders. Those are just waiting to get scraped off, or tear off the slider with them, on a rock.
I'm about to take delivery on my T4R TE so I'm new to this, but I've been reading a lot here. Every time someone mentions a product, or I see it in their signature or Build thread, I go find the product website and compare it to other similar products. If I keep reading here I'll spend another $10k on my basic Trail Edition. :keyboard:
I plan to add rock sliders as the first step. The roof rack will be next. Skid plates maybe - I need to see what the truck has stock. Better tires with AT traction. Maybe bigger tires? A lift if I get the bigger tires.
There's a good tire fitment thread by 1Engineer that you can find. It's one of the saved threads here under general headings. Here's the link:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/156378-5th-gen-tire-fitment-guide.html
That's all I'll say for now. I need to start building mine before I have any other advice. :blah:

 

[DesertCanyons]

High lift and going it alone

Hey guys,
I purchased a 2014 SR5 4Runner last Friday, and I love it! I've already been on several muddy paths with some friends over the weekend. I'm an avid hiker and camper, and I prefer to travel off the beaten path. I want to modify it to add a bit more capability in reaching my destinations, and I am completely ignorant on a lot of these modifications. I would love some guidance from people with a bit more experience. ...

[*] 4' High life jack with synthetic cable. ...
[/LIST]

... Eventually, I'll get a winch and and after market bumper. However, to keep costs down, I'm probably going to just use the high jack as a come along to start with. ...

Thanks in advance for any advice/guidance.

Todd

Hey Todd,
Good for you if you know how to get a tractor out of the mud with a high lift jack. I grew up driving caterpillars and tractors. We got a DC-8 Caterpillar stuck in the mud but that big monster was too big to pull out. I recall once we got the Cat stuck in a drainage creek in front of a plugged culvert. We had to drain the water and dig it out.

"I thank God I'm a country boy." JD

I've seen tutorials on using a jack to get a stuck Land Cruiser out of the mud. If I knew more about high lift jacks I'd be getting one too.

Don't go 4wheeling alone if you can help it. If you get really stuck or break something it may be a long walk out and an expensive tow or recovery. I much prefer the company of others who know more than I do about off-roading. Find a local off road club. Safety in numbers.

 

[tnine]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I have a couple of follow up questions.

I'm looking for the max roof capacity of the 4runner. The manual says 120 lbs "Do not exceed 120 lb. (54 kg) cargo weight on the roof luggage carrier." However, if I remove the factory rails, and either use my Yakima rail system, or another after market installation, what's my weight limit? There's no point in getting a 900lb roof rack if the roof structurally can only support 200 lbs. I can't seem to find these specs anywhere on Toyota's site.



Has anyone here actually damaged their undercarriage, gas tank, or exhaust when out on forest roads? If not, I may be going a big overboard on the paranoia of damage. I think a bull bar to prevent me from nosing into anything on inclines and some slider steps would be sufficient to protect me from rocks in the road. I'm looking at something similar to this.

Slee - Toyota 4Runner Sliders


What kind of AT tires have people used and enjoy with the factory suspension and rims? As I stated earlier, I know my on road performance will decrease with AT tires, but I'm assuming that's less of a performance impact that a lift kit with wider tires. Is that actually the case, or will they both have the same impact on handling?



Thanks again guys for helping the n00b,

Todd

 

[BLACK-FL4RUNNER]

The gas tank skid is the first skid I will be buying!

I dented mine in the first trip I took it off road. :lmao:

 

[Jetboy]

I've drug the belly of my 4runner a number of times. The sliders are very handy. I do not yet have a good set of skids. For non-rock crawling, the first place you're likely to damage is the exhaust pipe and transfer case. They are very exposed and sit low in the middle of the breakover. I simply haven't had time to fab a nice skid for them. The other skids on my Trail edition are adequate for my use.

Oddly enough my trail rig has no skid plates, but it sits a lot higher. Due to how low the belly of the 5th gens are, skids are more necessary than many older generations of 4runner and land cruiser.

 

[Watchdogg]

The gas tank skid is the first skid I will be buying!

I dented mine in the first trip I took it off road. :lmao:

I can't believe how low the gas tank is on these trucks. The factory plate is kind of flimsy.

 

[Jetboy]

With respect to AT tires - you will give up about 1-2mpg by going to most LT tires vs P rated tires.

The LT tires generally are capable of greater weight and more durable. It's up to you whether you want and/or need that. Unfortunately there aren't many c-rated LT tires and you're looking then for D or E type ratings. It will just depend on your use. If I were driving across the Serengeti every day - I'd want the heaviest sidewall tire I could find. If I'm driving 95% on the highway, for me P rated AT tires are the best mix.

 

[wfo9]

For a winching type self recovery scenario, I find the hilift is a real PITA to deal with. Extremely bulky and awkward, not to mention dangerous. I personally find a manual winch (along with some straps and blocks) and a set of maxtrax to be a good combo when a powered winch or other vehicle pull is not an option.

 

[mbumpus11]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I have a couple of follow up questions.

I'm looking for the max roof capacity of the 4runner. The manual says 120 lbs "Do not exceed 120 lb. (54 kg) cargo weight on the roof luggage carrier." However, if I remove the factory rails, and either use my Yakima rail system, or another after market installation, what's my weight limit? There's no point in getting a 900lb roof rack if the roof structurally can only support 200 lbs. I can't seem to find these specs anywhere on Toyota's site.



Has anyone here actually damaged their undercarriage, gas tank, or exhaust when out on forest roads? If not, I may be going a big overboard on the paranoia of damage. I think a bull bar to prevent me from nosing into anything on inclines and some slider steps would be sufficient to protect me from rocks in the road. I'm looking at something similar to this.

Slee - Toyota 4Runner Sliders


What kind of AT tires have people used and enjoy with the factory suspension and rims? As I stated earlier, I know my on road performance will decrease with AT tires, but I'm assuming that's less of a performance impact that a lift kit with wider tires. Is that actually the case, or will they both have the same impact on handling?



Thanks again guys for helping the n00b,

Todd

With regard to your AT tire question on stock rims and suspension, I just upgraded to the BFGoodrich KO2s. I went a little larger than stock with 275/70/17 and there is zero rub, and an incredible increase in capability. Yes, they are a little heavier. Your mpgs will decrease a 1-2 mpg (I just went on a 6 hour trip where I got 22mpg with stock tires, but only 20mpg with the new larger tires), but that's worth it. Also, the speedometer difference will show 3% slower than you are going, and your odometer will show 3% less distance for each size increase of the tires you make. So if you go 275 (like me), you're 3% off from stock. 285 and you're 6% off from stock. There are ways to correct this, though.

I just got my Trail premium a little over a month ago and my first upgrade (as suggested by forum members) was to change my tires and I'm incredibly satisfied that I went with tires first. Capability off road is well worth the 1-2mpg sacrifice...especially when you consider that on one tank that's only ~20 miles off of your total driving range.

 

[DesertCanyons]

Solid sliders and weak bull bars

...

I'm looking for the max roof capacity of the 4runner. The manual says 120 lbs "Do not exceed 120 lb. (54 kg) cargo weight on the roof luggage carrier." ....

I think the limiting factor in the stock roof rack is the center of the roof. You're placing the load on the sheet metal roof. If you put all the load on the rails or on a new rack then the capacity is higher. Most of the racks list the static and moving load limits. Look for Gobi and Baja racks on line or Drabbits here in the forum.

Has anyone here actually damaged their undercarriage, gas tank, or exhaust when out on forest roads? If not, I may be going a big overboard on the paranoia of damage. I think a bull bar to prevent me from nosing into anything on inclines and some slider steps would be sufficient to protect me from rocks in the road. I'm looking at something similar to this.

Slee - Toyota 4Runner Sliders

You have the SR5. I believe the skids on that are less than the Trail Edition. Especially the gas tank skid. The TE has a metal skid under the gas tank. Look and see what you have.

The Slee rock slider you linked is nothing more than a custom running board. It's a bolt together plate design that is too weak for sliding over rocks. Look for solid strut tubes and round or square tube sliders. One company makes a similar looking winged slider that is much stronger than what Slee is showing. Look at sliders by Bud Build, Metal Tech, Demello, Shrockworks, White Knuckle or Sonoran Steel for better examples. Running boards and bull bars are nothing more than damage enhancers. If you crunch them on the rocks or dirt they will increase the damage to your vehicle.

There's a thread on Rock Slider basics in the general headings here somewhere. Look for it.

 

[Hellamatic]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I have a couple of follow up questions.

I'm looking for the max roof capacity of the 4runner. The manual says 120 lbs "Do not exceed 120 lb. (54 kg) cargo weight on the roof luggage carrier." However, if I remove the factory rails, and either use my Yakima rail system, or another after market installation, what's my weight limit? There's no point in getting a 900lb roof rack if the roof structurally can only support 200 lbs. I can't seem to find these specs anywhere on Toyota's site.



Has anyone here actually damaged their undercarriage, gas tank, or exhaust when out on forest roads? If not, I may be going a big overboard on the paranoia of damage. I think a bull bar to prevent me from nosing into anything on inclines and some slider steps would be sufficient to protect me from rocks in the road. I'm looking at something similar to this.

Slee - Toyota 4Runner Sliders


What kind of AT tires have people used and enjoy with the factory suspension and rims? As I stated earlier, I know my on road performance will decrease with AT tires, but I'm assuming that's less of a performance impact that a lift kit with wider tires. Is that actually the case, or will they both have the same impact on handling?



Thanks again guys for helping the n00b,

Todd

For my Baja rack, it's rated at 300lbs dynamic load, 600lbs static.

If your forestry roads out there are the same as up in Alberta, you will be perfectly fine in stock form (preferably upgrade the tires though.)

As far as tires, lots of us run Goodyear Duratracs. There's also good choices from Nitto, BFG, Toyo, Cooper. Your best bet there is to do a little research and see what you think you'll like. Read through the 5th gen build threads, and you'll also gain a ton of info.

If by "bull bar" you are referring to the fancy chrome hoop in the center of your bumper, I'd avoid it. They're just a damage multiplier. Just avoid hitting things. You could upgrade to a full aftermarket bumper, but it sounds like overkill in your application. Unless you like the looks - if that's the case, have at 'er!

 

[Intruder]

If your forestry roads out there are the same as up in Alberta, you will be perfectly fine in stock form (preferably upgrade the tires though.)

Yeah, the 4Runner is pretty capable stock. Probably more capable than most people will ever need. Here's mine completely stock...

 

[ouscubagrad]

For a winching type self recovery scenario, I find the hilift is a real PITA to deal with. Extremely bulky and awkward, not to mention dangerous. I personally find a manual winch (along with some straps and blocks) and a set of maxtrax to be a good combo when a powered winch or other vehicle pull is not an option.

Do you have any recommendations for a manual winch?

 

[wfo9]

I have this one.


https://www.wyeth-scott.com/

https://www.wyeth-scott.com/models.asp
3-35-A-SLT

Not cheap, but will last a lifetime and super easy to use.

 

[Jhalko]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Has anyone here actually damaged their undercarriage, gas tank, or exhaust when out on forest roads? If not, I may be going a big overboard on the paranoia of damage. I think a bull bar to prevent me from nosing into anything on inclines and some slider steps would be sufficient to protect me from rocks in the road. I'm looking at something similar to this.

Slee - Toyota 4Runner Sliders


What kind of AT tires have people used and enjoy with the factory suspension and rims? As I stated earlier, I know my on road performance will decrease with AT tires, but I'm assuming that's less of a performance impact that a lift kit with wider tires.
Todd

Before my lift and upgraded skids, I ran a number of moderate (wells rated) trails in CO with nothing more than C rated 265's (stock SR5 size). Never had any problems but with the Xreas shocks it was harsh, start with tires, we have a lot of rocks as you know! You should have stock skids, which while thin still offer some protection, if you dent one replace it, or wait for a group buy!

Those slee sliders look nice and a couple folks that got them loved them, I went with shrockworks step sliders more for my wife and kids more than anything. The wait was longer but they cost less.

 

[4RunnerAU]

One thing i learned from my Jeep - MPG from a more aggressive tread can be offset by reducing your wheel/tire weights. I replaced my stock goodyear ST dinky tires with 33.5x12.5x15 goodyear duratracs and lost 0mpg after adjusting the speedometer because i went to a very light wheel and went with duratracs, which are a relatively light tire. I am hoping to replicate the same thing tomorrow AM when i take in my 4runner to put on hankook dynapro atms on MB TKOs. Overall, i am shaving about 20-25lbs in wheel weight (~8% overall when adding in tires) and kept the tire size the same. I am hoping that will minimize the impact to MPG but we will see, i reckon.