Handgun in the 4R
- Thread starter whodat
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Liberals/Leftists absolutely hate facts and reason. There is no emotion. The facts bear repeating in order to defuse their emotions. As I stated above and similar to M1911's post, Government confiscation of firearms kept by law-abiding citizens has historically been associated with some of the world's most insidious tyrannies. Our founding fathers recognized this.
Couple things to think about:
1) Why do most mass shooting occur in blue states?
2) Why do mass shooting still occur in countries where civilian gun ownership is prohibited or very tightly regulated?
There was a great article on The Firearms Blog about the second amendment. I can't link to it from work, but it's pretty easy to find. I suggest you read it.
A reader there mentioned what I believe to be a great grass-roots idea to make it very clear where the other 47 percent of the country (based on the popular vote) stands. a date should be set where every gun owner in the country mails a used brass casing to the white house with a note reading "personal delivery with my rifle available".
Registration and disarmament is the first step to any dictatorial regime. The time to get to the final point of oppression is the only variable.
I immigrated here and took citizenship because of the freedom and opportunity here at the time.... and like immigrants past, I will gladly pick up my arms to defend that freedom and constitutional right. :usa2:
There are plenty of socialist countries without the rights as provided to us by our constitution. If you like that model better, my suggestion is you do the same thing as I did; Immigrate to where you like it better!
Okki
1) Why do most mass shooting occur in blue states?
2) Why do mass shooting still occur in countries where civilian gun ownership is prohibited or very tightly regulated?
There was a great article on The Firearms Blog about the second amendment. I can't link to it from work, but it's pretty easy to find. I suggest you read it.
A reader there mentioned what I believe to be a great grass-roots idea to make it very clear where the other 47 percent of the country (based on the popular vote) stands. a date should be set where every gun owner in the country mails a used brass casing to the white house with a note reading "personal delivery with my rifle available".
Registration and disarmament is the first step to any dictatorial regime. The time to get to the final point of oppression is the only variable.
I immigrated here and took citizenship because of the freedom and opportunity here at the time.... and like immigrants past, I will gladly pick up my arms to defend that freedom and constitutional right. :usa2:
There are plenty of socialist countries without the rights as provided to us by our constitution. If you like that model better, my suggestion is you do the same thing as I did; Immigrate to where you like it better!
Okki
Your admonition is very odd. I didn't ascribe any such thing to you, I made the point much more generically at the end of the post.
I have not advocated for more gun control anywhere here. I haven't advocated repeal of the 2nd anywhere.
Just because I recognize that there are limitations even under the 2nd amendment, and just because I understand the case law that has decided some of this, doesn't make me a less ardent supporter of the bill of rights or our Republican form of democracy.
I have not advocated for more gun control anywhere here. I haven't advocated repeal of the 2nd anywhere.
Just because I recognize that there are limitations even under the 2nd amendment, and just because I understand the case law that has decided some of this, doesn't make me a less ardent supporter of the bill of rights or our Republican form of democracy.
homeyclaus
New member
Point 1 isn't really relevant. Mass shootings occur overwhelmingly in gun-free zones where the law abiding are disarmed. Schools, shopping malls, and theaters. The latter two are generally "posted" as "no firearms or dangerous weapons allowed." Depending on the state, the force of law and their validity varies.
Point 2 is interesting.
I'll make another point: In every instance, we failed the victims long before the madman touched a firearm. One cannot rationally argue that these people descended into madness in a vacuum. Someone, somewhere knew something. And did nothing. The "this is not my problem" attitude condemned the victims to their fate.
In short, we are ALL to blame. People here don't ask anyone else if they're okay (incidentally, a study of suicides makes reference to how many suicide notes stated that had just someone even pretended to care, the person would not have killed themselves). People here don't say something when they see something, especially in northern VA - see a toddler making a beeline for the sliding door to run onto a busy street? Not my problem. Someone's car broken down? Honk and swear - make sure to not offer any help. Guy shot and bleeding out next to your gas pump? Step on over, pay no mind.
At the same time the left has closed mental health institutions in the name of humanity, and the right cut access to mental healthcare because they see it as welfare. This abandons the caretakers as well as the mentally ill.
The social contract broke down into utter selfishness. That's what's killing people.
Of course, it's much easier to make the assault weapons ban and magazine size restrictions in effect in CT at the time of the last shooting national. American Exceptionalism: repeating the same thing the states tried on a national level and expecting different results.
Point 2 is interesting.
I'll make another point: In every instance, we failed the victims long before the madman touched a firearm. One cannot rationally argue that these people descended into madness in a vacuum. Someone, somewhere knew something. And did nothing. The "this is not my problem" attitude condemned the victims to their fate.
In short, we are ALL to blame. People here don't ask anyone else if they're okay (incidentally, a study of suicides makes reference to how many suicide notes stated that had just someone even pretended to care, the person would not have killed themselves). People here don't say something when they see something, especially in northern VA - see a toddler making a beeline for the sliding door to run onto a busy street? Not my problem. Someone's car broken down? Honk and swear - make sure to not offer any help. Guy shot and bleeding out next to your gas pump? Step on over, pay no mind.
At the same time the left has closed mental health institutions in the name of humanity, and the right cut access to mental healthcare because they see it as welfare. This abandons the caretakers as well as the mentally ill.
The social contract broke down into utter selfishness. That's what's killing people.
Of course, it's much easier to make the assault weapons ban and magazine size restrictions in effect in CT at the time of the last shooting national. American Exceptionalism: repeating the same thing the states tried on a national level and expecting different results.
homeyclaus
New member
And just like the first amendment, the restrictions are debatable and highly politicised. The first amendment is highly restricted in institutions of higher learning, especially things like discussion of the second amendment. The irony should not be lost on any of us.
What's being advocated now, in terms of the first amendment, is that we can only type ten sentences before having to change the typewriter ribbon, get a new pencil, or reboot the computer. And a waiting period to get one. And no internet sales of computers, pencils, and typewriters. After all, people writing bad things caused people to die. Like that cartoon from Denmark.
Ultimately, both amendments protect the freedom to do something, and the responsibility of facing the consequences of doing so. Since there are a lot of people who don't like responsibility, they seek to restrict those freedoms instead.
What's being advocated now, in terms of the first amendment, is that we can only type ten sentences before having to change the typewriter ribbon, get a new pencil, or reboot the computer. And a waiting period to get one. And no internet sales of computers, pencils, and typewriters. After all, people writing bad things caused people to die. Like that cartoon from Denmark.
Ultimately, both amendments protect the freedom to do something, and the responsibility of facing the consequences of doing so. Since there are a lot of people who don't like responsibility, they seek to restrict those freedoms instead.
typical ignoramus. If you need help with the facts, let us know!
The overall societal state is definitely the bigger talking point as homeyclaus indicated, but my 2 points carry relevancy in that it highlights the uselessness of the gun control debate. It's not a pure factoid; it's a talking point that will hopefully generate a realistic thought-process on the subject.
Each side will throw random statistics and "facts", but nobody seems to really think through what they are offering. this holds true for democrat driven bans and "put armed guards in all schools" statements like those made by the NRA.
For an interesting read on the growing of a narcissist generation, the below article is a pretty interesting opinion piece:
We are raising a generation of deluded narcissists | Fox News
Okki
Each side will throw random statistics and "facts", but nobody seems to really think through what they are offering. this holds true for democrat driven bans and "put armed guards in all schools" statements like those made by the NRA.
For an interesting read on the growing of a narcissist generation, the below article is a pretty interesting opinion piece:
We are raising a generation of deluded narcissists | Fox News
Okki
homeyclaus
New member
Of course gun control is as useful as a sign saying "no monsters allowed." Even the CDC admits that signs and laws seem to have little impact on violent crime in general First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of Strategies for Preventing Violence: Firearms Laws
Pro or anti, the position on gun control is generally an article of faith of one's party, with little logic or reason.
And the red herring of the words "Gun Violence" should be an insult to everyone's intelligence, but it's not. It implies that if you ban the guns, the violence will somehow go away. Stats don't back that up, even in suicide risks.
People believe their parties matter what the Canadian and UK crime and suicide stats say, especially in relation to the plummeting rate of violent crime in the USA. The antis are strengthened by the breathless reporting of a sensationalist press and their drive-by-journalism. It's why our country is referred to as the excited states by many.
The point is that any society that is, for lack of a better word, "americanizing" is facing the same risks as we are here. Take Germany, Australia, the UK, and Norway. More navel-gazing selfishness, more people descend into madness without anyone doing anything about it.
Not demographically similar, but awash with guns: Turkey has greater mental health issues, more guns, and is generally crazier. Very few mass shootings not terrorism related.
Oh the irony of Fox news ...
Pro or anti, the position on gun control is generally an article of faith of one's party, with little logic or reason.
And the red herring of the words "Gun Violence" should be an insult to everyone's intelligence, but it's not. It implies that if you ban the guns, the violence will somehow go away. Stats don't back that up, even in suicide risks.
People believe their parties matter what the Canadian and UK crime and suicide stats say, especially in relation to the plummeting rate of violent crime in the USA. The antis are strengthened by the breathless reporting of a sensationalist press and their drive-by-journalism. It's why our country is referred to as the excited states by many.
The point is that any society that is, for lack of a better word, "americanizing" is facing the same risks as we are here. Take Germany, Australia, the UK, and Norway. More navel-gazing selfishness, more people descend into madness without anyone doing anything about it.
Not demographically similar, but awash with guns: Turkey has greater mental health issues, more guns, and is generally crazier. Very few mass shootings not terrorism related.
Oh the irony of Fox news ...
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History of Gun Control
This video will provide a background and subsequent knowledge anybody might need with regards to Gun Control. It is long though, and filled with facts:
gun control The History of Gun Control - FULL LENGTH - YouTube
This video will provide a background and subsequent knowledge anybody might need with regards to Gun Control. It is long though, and filled with facts:
gun control The History of Gun Control - FULL LENGTH - YouTube
homeyclaus
New member
Cliff's Notes:
1. Control of weapons has been used by tyrants for millenia.
2. In the US case, as with general tyranny, they were also racist - see the Sullivan laws to keep weapons out of the hands of the Irish immigrants, and the laws in the (at the time) Democrat South to keep weapons out of the hand of freed slaves.
3. Levels of violence in societies did not change appreciably wherever restrictions where imposed.
4. Some people refuse to believe 1.2, and/or 3, and think banning something so easily manufactured will actually do good. "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
DannyLlama
Elite Member
Thanks for the cliff notes.. I will be in touch soon for other video's i've been meaning to watch.
Kidding
In Gun Control Debate, Several Options Draw Majority Support
Gun Rights Proponents More Politically Active:
In Gun Control Debate, Several Options Draw Majority Support | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
Gun Rights Proponents More Politically Active:
In Gun Control Debate, Several Options Draw Majority Support | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
blackrifle01
New member
What does your link prove outside of the fact that there are a lot of uneducated people that take surveys?
Here is another one for you
Attachments
rebelbowtie
New member
You can't be this naive or are you a troll?
idiot
scanny
Senior Member
How possible tyrans can be overtrown if they start tyrany from taking away guns from population ?
It doesn't necessarily start with seizing guns; propaganda and the cult of personality can be pretty effective.
Celtic1888
New member
I am a naturalized citizen (4+ years) and proudly practized my 2nd ammendment rights by purchasing a Sig Saeur P226 enhanced elite 2 weeks ago....looking forward to shooting some rounds this weekend. God Bless the USA and forefathers like Thomas Jefferson.
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