Head Gasket symptoms starting to show...

[4runner15]

Hey - i bought my 4runner not too long ago and want to own one for as long as i can. Everything was fine until recently i noticed little things about the runner that worried me. It started blowing white smoke from the exhaust and it smelled funny. I have a rough idle for the first 5-10 seconds after starting (feels like it's gargling and shaky). Coolant seemed to be going low, but nothing crazy noticeable.

I did some maintenance in the recent weeks such as spark plugs, o2 sensors, seafoam, intake filter. The shakiness at startup was there before and after all this. The white smoke however has increased. I notice that at some startups, it'll have a lot of white smoke, as if i had pockets of seafoam in the vaccum lines.

Anyways, I want to get ready and just get an idea of what i'm getting myself into in terms of repair. I did some searches and found information to be really helpful but couldn't find a write up with torque specs and etc on how to replace the head gasket. Would anyone know of a write up and point me in the right direction? I'm a decent wrench if given a sufficient amount of write-ups and things to look out for..

thanks in advance.

useful links i found for information..

3.4L white smoke on start up. Intake manifold gasket?

00' 3rd gen: Shakes at idle, running out of solutions

 

[AppSt92]

I have a 99 limited with 200k. I was having the same problems and unfortunately, I had 2 cracked heads. I decided to replace them both. Very expensive repair, but it's in incredible shape and I have never had any other problems. While they were in there, I had the water pump and timing belt replaced along with new plugs and wires.

 

[4runner15]

Any way i can identify if it was a cracked head versus head gasket myself? I'm all for DIY unless it involves machinery.

 

[BrianSD_42]

how many miles are on your truck?

sucks to hear about the cracked head. I suffered the same issue at 200,000 miles; details in the first few pages of my thread. The more high mileage members we get here on T4R the more cracked head stories I read about. I now think that 200k is a perfectly reasonable lifespan for an engine. don't expect to get to 300,000 on original heads - probably not happening.

you should start by doing a google T4R search for cracked head on a 4Runner.

See this link ...

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-t...far-more-accurately-than-standard-method.html

 

[4runner15]

Thanks! It's not determined a cracked head yet but was phrased more of a question. Do i HAVE to send it to a machine shop to check for a cracked head? How much does this usually cost?

Is there any way i can inspect it myself? Also, any write ups out there on how to remove the head?

 

[BrianSD_42]

The answer to all your questions is use the search link I provided.

 

[CharliePR74]

Check out my thread. Long story short, head gaskets failure. The way I determined the problem... wet spark and washed out piston. Check through all your sparks threaded holes using a flashlight. If you see a clean piston, that's coolant going into the chamber.

I added pics, and actually did the whole repair myself. I'm very picky with my cars. Get an Haynes or something similar. Those manuals include torque specs, pics and assembly and how to disassemble step by step procedures. Careful with your camshafts, there's a threaded hole in one specific cam gear in were you should put an 8mm screw in order to avoid the gear to get out of its position.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...yota-4runner-p0300-p0306-white-smoke-etc.html

I spent $1500 total but that's because I replaced both O2 sensors as I got funny readings from them, $300 both (yeah, I know, in a hurry, didn't check for better prices). Replaced all gaskets and seals, everything. Also replaced water pump, tensors, and timing belt. Got an OEM kit from a guy on eBay. Whole job rounds around $1000 if your heads are not cracked but if you haven't been involved in an overheating event, you shouldn't be worrying about that. Gaskets just fail when getting close to the 200,000 miles, check my thread.

Hope that helps.

 

[4runner15]

Thanks man. That looks really helpful. The more i'm looking into it, the more i'm leaning towards yanking out the motor for a full revamp. My rear main seal has been leaking so i figured this may be the opportunity to get that taken care of as well. And while I have everything apart, might as well do other gaskets and seals..

I'll be sure to get that book now that this will be a big job. wish me luck.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Depending on your resources it might be a good idea to just buy a wrecked engine with less than 120k miles on it and swap the motor. This is especially true if it is more than just gaskets and you are a new owner. No point in pouring $3000 into a rebuild that might only last 2 yrs.

A totalled 4Runner (rear collision) with a good engine can be bought at auctions for $800 - $1200.

 

[Diagram14]

I would be certain that it is for sure your rear main that is leaking before you use it to tip the scale in favor of pulling the entire motor. More often than not, on these motors, a small valve cover leak runs off the back side of your engine and is mistaken for a leaky steering rack or rear main. If there is oil any higher up on your bell housing than what is honestly realistic for a rear main leak I would start looking for where gravity brought it from.

Also, if you have good compression on all your pistons then just redoing the top end is the more attractive option if you ask me. You get to see and touch the inside of your motor versus making the 800-1200 dollar gamble on someone elses maintanence of a mid-high milage motor. Thats my crazy opinion.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Yeah do all of the proper research before any decision. My main point is don't drop $3500+ into a rebuild on an engine that is new to you. If it can be fixed for $1500 then that is one thing.

I spent over $3000 fixing my engine last year due to a cracked head CYL#3 BUT I have owned the truck since summer 2002 and I know it has been fully maintained.

.

 

[CharliePR74]

Actually, I had an oil leakage coming from the back of the engine and I was thinking on that rear main seal to be the cause of it. Turned out it was oil leaking from the heads; they have a round cap on the back which starts to leak and the only way to replace those is by removing the heads covers (already mentioned by Diagram14). Those could be giving you some trouble already. After doing my half engine repair, that leakage just disappeared. No leakages whatsoever.

Do a check on your fuel injectors as well. I had 2 leaking and got them once I removed the intake manifold (fuel lines and wiring disconnected but still 2 injectors dropping fuel). There's a seller on eBay that sells you a set of remanufactured injectors, $30 each approx. I still had the ones my engine brought just in case. Those re-manufactured injectors have been working fine for me, 5K miles, no problems at all.

 

[4runner15]

Diagram14, brianemc2_42, CharliePR74, thanks for the great advice and opinion guys.

I've been contemplating the past few days on what to do. Really stressful given the fact that i had my $$ saved for a lift. But first things first.. maintenance.

So the the point of the rear main seal, i'll check higher to where the head meets the block and even behind the valve covers. There is a leak somewhere, and i'm hoping it's not the rear main so that i can do do my headgasket job on my driveway (location to do this is a factor for me since i dont have a garage). Would a leaky manifold gasket cause any troubles of such for me?

The white smoke out my exhaust at start ups.. all fingers point at a "prone to blow" head gasket, correct? No doubts about this is what i'm feeling and will need to replace this anyways.

The shaking motor at startups, sounds to me like some fluids are getting onto one or more of my spark plugs. Would this be a correct assumption? I just changed out my plugs and stupidly didn't notice the cleanliness or dirtiness. I guess the only way to check now is take the plugs out and look for pockets of coolant OR do a compression test.

While I'm planning out what i should do, i'm searching for other head work that can be done while i have everything out. I listed out the following below, would you guys have any advice on this or other suggestions?

Valve stem seals (looks difficult to do. is it worth it?)
Cam seals
Fuel Injector O-rings
Spark plug seals


Thanks again guys :hatsoff:

 

[CharliePR74]

I removed both heads and left them in a machine shop. Guy there did everything on them, replaced valves stem seals, did a pressure test to confirm they were not cracked, checked valves metal seats and did a minor resurface as they were not bent. Careful not to mix all of them valves shims. They come calibrated from factory and I've heard horror stories about children using magnets to catch them due to heads not stored in a safe place. Be sure to leave your heads to someone who really knows about the matter. I also advice you to take pictures of everything, specifically of the camshaft positions before removing them, there are marks in front and behind the camshaft gears, that could be tricky once you try to assemble everything back again. Take your heads assembled to the shop unless you are told different to avoid mixing up parts. Camshafts, camshafts bearings and shims should go back to the position and place they were originally.

Regarding parts, I recommend you to get an OEM gasket set. OEM head gaskets are the MLS type (multi layer steel) and as per my research (I read a lot trying to understand what happened), they are the recommended ones for the application, that is iron block and aluminum heads. The OEM comes with gaskets that look a bit different but they have performed well up to now, at least for me. I thought of going with Felpro (asbestos) because of some imperfections I found on the block surfaces caused by corrosion, but were not even necessary. I just used a file to fix those as recommended by the Haynes, and done. OEM gaskets come covered in some kind of rubber/flexible material, I think is teflon, not so sure and it actually fills any minor imperfection on the surfaces.

The OEM kit includes all valves stem seals, all injectors seals and o-rings, heads gaskets, heads covers gaskets, camshaft seals and intake and exhaust gaskets. I recommend you to replace your crankshaft front oil seal and careful not to break one of the teeth of the timing belt crankshaft pulley when taking it out, cost me $50 . Also careful when removing your injectors from the intake manifold. They come with plastic tips that get stick to the manifold. I recommend you to remove the whole intake with the injectors and fuel rails installed just as I did and then try to remove the injectors from it by means of pushing them from the bottom. If those tips break, don't worry, you can get them from an auto parts or even eBay (Toyota dealers will offer you the whole injector and that is $150 each), get them serviced or get them through eBay. As already mentioned, I found a seller that have them already serviced, new tips, o-rings and seals, balanced and cleaned for about $30 each.

Other things you may consider replacing/checking:
-Spark plugs wiring
-Fuel filter
-Coolant, use concentrated red one from Toyota and dilute with distilled water
-Clean IAC Valve
-Clean MAF sensor (use MAF sensor cleaner and careful not to break those tiny sensors)
-Replace PCV
-Check/replace vacuum tubings specifically those located in the back of the intake manifold
-Air filter
-Check ignition coils boots for cracks that could lead to misfire
-Water pump, timing belt, tensors (a guy at eBay sells an OEM kit for a good price)
-Check air intake rubber joints, I found one broken

Hope that helps. Too much info but you can do it. Just get a manual, a camera and bring some patience

CJ

 

[BrianSD_42]

the white smoke is because coolant is burning.

you won't know if you have a bad head gasket or a cracked head until the mechanic pulls the head off. you can do one side or both. the cheapest way is to only pull the side that has the misfire.

will you be paying someone to do the work?

 

[Singtoe]

I had white smoke on start up with my hoopty and it was the valve stem seals.

Make sure that it is oil or antifreeze. Start it up and smell the smoke. If it smells like burnt oil, it is the stem seals, if it has a sweet smell to it, it is antifreeze.


If it is Antifreeze, you will need new head gaskets.

If it is oil, Valve stem seals. More then likely, heads will have to be removed and took apart, to have seal replaced.

 

[Diagram14]

TB and HG photo timeline. For an idea of whats involved.

 

[4runner15]

CharliePR74 - thanks for the pointers. How much did the head work cost you from the shop? If simple enough, i may just do the valve stem seals myself. How much would the resurfacing, checking of cracked head cost?

the white smoke is because coolant is burning.

you won't know if you have a bad head gasket or a cracked head until the mechanic pulls the head off. you can do one side or both. the cheapest way is to only pull the side that has the misfire.

will you be paying someone to do the work?

brianemc2_42 - yeah, i'll attempt to do this myself. I did a Honda swap a few years back on my hatchback so feel i have some experience with the wrench. I did a ton of research with torque specs, wiring, and likely odd encounters to get myself ahead of any situation. It gave me a lot of confidence to do it myself. I feel like i'm 70% confident with the head gasket job at the moment. Need to do some more research so i know i'm ready. I'll try to get pics and get a write-up going as i do mine.

TB and HG photo timeline. For an idea of whats involved.

That is perfect and just what i'm looking for! By the way, how much did the head work cost you? I'm searching for a local shop to get a quote but don't want to get hustled. Looking for a ballpark price i should be expecting to pay.

Thanks all! If i feel 100%, i think i'll start this weekend. I'll try and post as many pics and instructions as possible. :hunter:

 

[CharliePR74]

I paid $300 to have both heads fully checked and done (new seals, valves checked, pressure tested and resurfaced). I think is a fair price, actually a good deal in my case.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I paid $300 to have both heads fully checked and done (new seals, valves checked, pressure tested and resurfaced). I think is a fair price, actually a good deal in my case.

where do you live? In California that would be $1200 - $2000.

The Toyota Gasket Kit is like $350-$400 per head.

.