Help! Trying to diagnose swaying problem

[JustSomeName]

Hey everyone, I own a 4th gen and my friend has a 3rd gen that has a terrible swaying problem that we're trying to diagnose and fix. We've read up everything we can on here, but can't seem to solve the problem, was hoping the 3rd gen experts can chime in.

So he got the car bone stock at around 110K miles from original owner, the previous owner wasn't very savvy with cars and his idea of taking care of the car was occasional oil changes and frequent car washes, not much else in terms of car maintenance.

It originally had a slight alignment issue, but my friend decided to upgrade the suspension and then do the alignment post-lift. He has the following setup:

• Camburg UCAs in the front
• ToyTec coilovers in the front
• Bilstein 5100 shocks in the rear
• Toytec superflex coils in the rear
• ToyTec Adjustable panhard bar in the rear
• SpiderTrax Wheel Spacers all around
• 4crawler 1.5 body lift
• 285/75R16 GT Radial Mud Terrain tires

He then got an alignment post-lift to close perfect on everything else, but the caster was still off (more on this to come).

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At this point, the car had two problems:

1. The car sways aggressively left/right at freeway speeds, where its a struggle to even hold the steering wheel straight
2. The car pulls hard to the left when braking

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He researched all over these forums and asked opinions from several shops, including an authorized Toyota shop here in the Bay Area.

Through all the research/opinions, he did the following to try and fix the swaying:

• Replaced Inner Tie Rods
• Replaced Outer Tie Rods
• Replaced Lower Ball Joints
• Replaced lower control arm bushings
• Replaced Rack/Pinion Bushings

After all this, the car was STILL swaying, so he did the following:

• Swapped with my 275/70R17 wheels/tires to test drive and see if it was something wrong his tires/wheels
• Rotated tires twice
• Rebalanced the tires three times from different shops
• Redid the alignment three times from different shops

The third and final alignment was from Toyota, where they were able to fix his caster and finally got his car to factory alignment specs.

And the car is STILL swaying.

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As for the braking problem, he first bled the breaks, but it kept pulling, so he thought it was seized calipers so he did the Tundra brake swap and replaced calipers, rotors, and pads. (I'm jealous 4th gens dont have this swap, but I digress...)

It was STILL pulling to the left after the tundra brake swap and thought it was another set of faulty brakes. Since he got the rotors/calipers from AutoZone, they have a lifetime warranty on them, so he returned them for a new set of rotors/calipers and installed them, as well as rebled the breaks only for the car to keep pulling.

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At this point, we are all out of ideas for BOTH problems, please, any and all opinions are welcome, this problem has persisted for almost 9 months and more than $3K worth of repairs now without any solution. Please 3rd gen experts, we need your help!

 

[JayRolla]

Are the sway bars connected?

 

[nicolasballia]

Seems like a perfect opportunity to do all the things i dream to do hahaha maybe try a winch bumper, that could solve the problem

 

[JustSomeName]

Are the sway bars connected?

Swaybars were never touched, but we will go and inspect them. My friend has an aftermarket swaybar for 3rd gens laying around, maybe we'll try installing it and seeing if it helps the swaying, thanks for the input, can't believe we haven't even considered that yet!

 

[crazydubman]

Are the sway bars connected?

With regards to the swaying.

Has the runner ever been in an accident where the frame could have bent?

Are the sway bars installed? If so, how are the bushings on the end links? One side could be bent or broken.

What do you mean by "upgraded panhard"? Is it adjustable or just beefier? Is it set to factory length?

How are your rear upper and lower control arm bushings? Are they cracked or worn out?

Is the undercarriage rusted out to the point that one of the suspension mounts is damaged?

You mention the front brakes, but there is no mention of the rear brakes. You may need to adjust the rear brake drums. Maybe one side is tighter than the other. Does it have abs? Can't remember if all 3rd gens do or not. Is there the possibility of air in the brake lines? When you installed the new front brakes, did you do a full system flush?

Hope you get it figured out. Maybe there is something in this list that is the culprit...

Good luck.

 

[JayRolla]

Swaybars were never touched, but we will go and inspect them. My friend has an aftermarket swaybar for 3rd gens laying around, maybe we'll try installing it and seeing if it helps the swaying, thanks for the input, can't believe we haven't even considered that yet!

Aftermarket sway bar not good if he is trying to offroad. Also the front sway bar end links almost always break with high mileage and any type of hard core front flex due too offroading. First thing I did when I got my 96 was flex her out and hear the front endlink break and sound almost like a .22 going off.

On a side note my 1996 likes too wander also. I have new springs, shocks, upper and lower ball joints, inner/outer tie rods, new rack and pinion (not rebuilt), m/t tires, 1.25 wheel spacers. Two alighments which where prefect. Rack is about 2 teeth off but thats okay. I have been told it wanders around due too the larger tires and that they are m/t, not to mention it was a complaint when these vehicles where first release. They like to wander into the grooves and dips in the road. I cant fix the issue, sometimes feels dangerous on the highway. Got worse also with the body lift. I dont have front sway bar connected and rear has extended moutning brackets.

 

[JustSomeName]

Aftermarket sway bar not good if he is trying to offroad. Also the front sway bar end links almost always break with high mileage and any type of hard core front flex due too offroading. First thing I did when I got my 96 was flex her out and hear the front endlink break and sound almost like a .22 going off.

The first owner NEVER offroaded it, he even mentioned he maybe set it to 4x4 a handful of times in the years he owned the car (we checked transfer case before buying the car and it was fine), so dont think the swaybar end links were abused in anyway, however, we did do a bit off roading when he first got he car, we'll check the end links later today

i'll update when we check, thanks for the input!

On a side note my 1996 likes too wander also. I have new springs, shocks, upper and lower ball joints, inner/outer tie rods, new rack and pinion (not rebuilt), m/t tires, 1.25 wheel spacers. Two alighments which where prefect. Rack is about 2 teeth off but thats okay. I have been told it wanders around due too the larger tires and that they are m/t, not to mention it was a complaint when these vehicles where first release. They like to wander into the grooves and dips in the road. I cant fix the issue, sometimes feels dangerous on the highway. Got worse also with the body lift. I dont have front sway bar connected and rear has extended moutning brackets.

Does your car wander slightly or is it very noticeable? Is it something that other users have complained about as well? Sitting in the car, it tends to pull pretty hard at freeway miles. Im just wondering if this car is a lemon, a common problem, or something that can be fixed...

 

[JustSomeName]

With regards to the swaying.

Has the runner ever been in an accident where the frame could have bent?

Are the sway bars installed? If so, how are the bushings on the end links? One side could be bent or broken.

What do you mean by "upgraded panhard"? Is it adjustable or just beefier? Is it set to factory length?

How are your rear upper and lower control arm bushings? Are they cracked or worn out?

Is the undercarriage rusted out to the point that one of the suspension mounts is damaged?

You mention the front brakes, but there is no mention of the rear brakes. You may need to adjust the rear brake drums. Maybe one side is tighter than the other. Does it have abs? Can't remember if all 3rd gens do or not. Is there the possibility of air in the brake lines? When you installed the new front brakes, did you do a full system flush?

Hope you get it figured out. Maybe there is something in this list that is the culprit...

Good luck.

The car's a clean title and the original owner was an old taiwanese man that seemed like he drove it like a granny and hardly drove past 70 mph. We'll try to carfax the car and see if anything comes up, but the frame should be fine

Not sure about the swaybars, we never touched them or even considered them as the problem, will look at the bushings/endlinks later today and update.

He has the ToyTec adjustable panhard bar and it is set to factory length.

The LCA bushings were replaced, not sure about UCA bushings, will confirm that later.

We're from the Bay Area, as are you, so you should know there isn't snow here, nor is salt rocks used on the roads, so rust isnt a huge issue out here in sunny california. I helped him installing the lift as well as a bunch of other miscellaneous things, and i never really noticed much rust under the car, if any at all

 

[Forrrrest]

Check out the slip yoke on the steerimg shaft. Ive heard those wear down and can cause steering slop. Which could cause your buddy to sway especialy if our hitting dips on the freeway at 70 and compensating with counter steer and having all that slop and over correcting.

X2 on the sway bar end links tho for sure.

As far as pull while braking theres multiple things bad wheel bearing happened to be the culprit for me.

Where in the bay area do you guys live? I could send you over to a couple buddys shops to get some wise words??

 

[JustSomeName]

Check out the slip yoke on the steerimg shaft. Ive heard those wear down and can cause steering slop. Which could cause your buddy to sway especialy if our hitting dips on the freeway at 70 and compensating with counter steer and having all that slop and over correcting.

X2 on the sway bar end links tho for sure.

As far as pull while braking theres multiple things bad wheel bearing happened to be the culprit for me.

Where in the bay area do you guys live? I could send you over to a couple buddys shops to get some wise words??

What do you mean by checking the steering shaft? What about it should we be checking for?

What ever culprits would you suggest we check on the brakes other than the wheel bearings?

We're from San Francisco.

Thanks for the input!

 

[JustSomeName]

Check out the slip yoke on the steerimg shaft. Ive heard those wear down and can cause steering slop. Which could cause your buddy to sway especialy if our hitting dips on the freeway at 70 and compensating with counter steer and having all that slop and over correcting.

I recall adding a spacer on the steering column when installing the body lift from 4crawler, is that what you mean i should be checking on the steering shaft or are you referring to something else?

 

[crazydubman]

The car's a clean title and the original owner was an old taiwanese man that seemed like he drove it like a granny and hardly drove past 70 mph. We'll try to carfax the car and see if anything comes up, but the frame should be fine

Not sure about the swaybars, we never touched them or even considered them as the problem, will look at the bushings/endlinks later today and update.

He has the ToyTec adjustable panhard bar and it is set to factory length.

The LCA bushings were replaced, not sure about UCA bushings, will confirm that later.

We're from the Bay Area, as are you, so you should know there isn't snow here, nor is salt rocks used on the roads, so rust isnt a huge issue out here in sunny california. I helped him installing the lift as well as a bunch of other miscellaneous things, and i never really noticed much rust under the car, if any at all

Where in the Bay area are you from? Maybe we can meet up so I can see first hand whats going on and help you try to figure out whats happening.

 

[Forrrrest]

I recall adding a spacer on the steering column when installing the body lift from 4crawler, is that what you mean i should be checking on the steering shaft or are you referring to something else?

Yes, steering column/shaft whatever you want to call it look into that fir excessive wear. Theres a write up on yotatech about it.

Did you get around to checking out the end links? Just dont forget it is a LIFTED SUV....there will always be top heavy and some sorts of roll.
[MENTION=47554]t4r4life[/MENTION] lives by my work and before i had the runner, i seen him take a corner with a little bit of speed and for sure thought it was going to flop on its side!!!

 

[JustSomeName]

So after inspecting the swaybar and swaybar endlinks, they both seem fine and looking ok. But the bushings on the swaybar end links look really worn out.

My question is, would just worn out endlink bushings cause that much sway even if the endlinks themselves are fine?

 

[JustSomeName]

My friend is now also reporting that when he slams on the brakes and the steering wheel is straight, the car dips to the left, but the steering wheel turns right, seems like another piece of evidence to figure out what is the root cause of all these problems. Let me know what you all think.

 

[JustSomeName]

Where in the Bay area are you from? Maybe we can meet up so I can see first hand whats going on and help you try to figure out whats happening.

PM sent

 

[JayRolla]

So after inspecting the swaybar and swaybar endlinks, they both seem fine and looking ok. But the bushings on the swaybar end links look really worn out.

My question is, would just worn out endlink bushings cause that much sway even if the endlinks themselves are fine?

No every vehicle I have ever own had shot swaybar bushings. Yes it will help but should only be a little of a difference. My slip yoke looked fine when I did my rack and pinion and I still get the wandering steering.

When you say it sways does it feel like its just over swaying when turning or just sways all over like the steering is wandering around?

 

[JustSomeName]

Where in the bay area do you guys live? I could send you over to a couple buddys shops to get some wise words??

Any shops you recommend in the bay you think could help diagnose?

 

[JustSomeName]

Wanted to update anyone that read this thread:

So we may have figured the problem out. Although the car had a clean title, we still carfaxed the VIN# and found out the car had been in a significant accident about 8 years back.

The car probably was fixed and drove fine stock, but after lifting the car, it must've threw everything out of whack, maybe frame damage? My friend is in the process of putting all the stock parts on the car to sell it back out, hopefully, to recuperate his investment on the car + parts.

 

[wc11]

had a similar problem.
It was so difficult to explain.
Let of the accelerator and it would "sway" left & right.

Dealer suspected fronts first since that where the problem seemed to occur
and replaced them. Same problem.

In the end, it was the real stabilizer bars and the problem went away after they were replaced.