Horn Issue need asssistance

[rigtec]

"...I can reset the unit just by reseting power from the battery."

Not sure if I'm understanding what you plan to reset... The horn failure involves straight mechanical hardware (No processor), how would you reset it? Is the alarm system tripping intermittently (perhaps I missed that), Just curious...

Rgds!

 

[Doc_Fry]

Not sure if I'm understanding what you plan to reset... The horn failure involves straight mechanical hardware (No processor), how would you reset it? Is the alarm system tripping intermittently (perhaps I missed that), Just curious...

Rgds!

No no no. Hmm how can I explain this in a different way. Taping the relay would do no good only a temporary fix to make it stop sticking, same as when I pull power from the battery which "unsticks" the relay negating the tapping the relay. Easier and more permanent if it is the relay to replace said relay if I can find it.

No alarm at all to anyone. It is the Horn. You push horn button it goes:
Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooliceooooooooooooooooooooo:helpoooooooooooooo:fencingoooooooooooooooooooooooo:whip2:etc.

I made it stop by pulling the positive power lead on the battery. And when I reconnect it it is not honking at all.

I never did test the Horn ever since stock as long as I have owned the vehicle. I did add a remote start kit a Compustar that does connect to the Horn for a feaature, and was my original thought that it was causing this issue sonce the Blade unit communicates with the CPU and i thought that somethng was getting lost in translation causing the issue. But I disconnected the horn feature from the remote start since it isnt even needed. I also check all the connections at the steeringwheel going as far as diconnecting the horn at the steering wheel while it was honking and it did not stop. This says that it is not the button itself but something further down the line. Someone mentioned a relay that could be the cause of this issue and that is where we are at right now. Attempting to find the relay. When it is found I will reconnect the horns under the cowl and honk the horn causing the issue then pull the relay if it stops it is the relay if it does not, who knows. It isnt the horn. Since I already caused the problem with the horn disconnected and then reconnected it t i honking. If all this does not fix the issue I will disconnect the remote start completely to make sure it isnt affecting anything. After all that it would be anyones guess what is causing this electrical gremlin.

I did end up finding out what was causing my wiler front and rear issue, me. When I was unhooking other wires I forgot to seat them completely under the steering wheel. This was after I multi metered ever single fuse in the vehicle. I hope that this is a more complete pixture of what is happening and helps make it clearer for you to what is happening.

 

[rigtec]

Okay,

We know it's not the 'steering pad horn button'. Now this is what we need to find out. Is the horn sounding because the relay is (1) 'Sticking' or (2) 'Being energized' by an unknown ground source. The way you find that out is to pull the relay and check the coil wire terminal #C7 (refer to schematic). Connect your volt meter or test light to a 12V source (positive batt term). Then take the neg prob (Blk) and touch the C7 relay socket terminal. This vehicle utilizes Switched ground-side circuitry, meaning the accessories are 'Hot at ALL times' or when the ignition is turned on.

So the relay coil will be hot (Energized); this is normal, but there should be NO ground so you should NOT see 12V. If you do then something is initiating the horn, e.g., Alarm system, Aftermarket remote start system, loose/stray wiring... etc. It sounds hard to do I know, but it's really not; just time consuming, and these are the steps to eliminating the problem! We'll take it one step at a time, the first step is to locate that relay lol,

Rgds!

 

[Doc_Fry]

Okay,

We know it's not the 'steering pad horn button'. Now this is what we need to find out. Is the horn sounding because the relay is (1) 'Sticking' or (2) 'Being energized' by an unknown ground source. The way you find that out is to pull the relay and check the coil wire terminal #C7 (refer to schematic). Connect your volt meter or test light to a 12V source (positive batt term). Then take the neg prob (Blk) and touch the C7 relay socket terminal. This vehicle utilizes Switched ground-side circuitry, meaning the accessories are 'Hot at ALL times' or when the ignition is turned on.

So the relay coil will be hot (Energized); this is normal, but there should be NO ground so you should NOT see 12V. If you do then something is initiating the horn, e.g., Alarm system, Aftermarket remote start system, loose/stray wiring... etc. It sounds hard to do I know, but it's really not; just time consuming, and these are the steps to eliminating the problem! We'll take it one step at a time, the first step is to locate that relay lol,

Rgds!

I am following you but still dont know where the relay is located.

 

[rigtec]

I am following you but still dont know where the relay is located.

You can't get the relay to make a sound by hitting either the horn or the panic button on the key fob? It could be stuck in the closed position. does the horn tute?

 

[rigtec]

"Remember that there are 2 horns under the hood. Your alarm horn sits by the air box. The traffic horn sits behind the grill..."

Hi Okki,

According to this diagram both horns are tied to the very same horn circuit; am I missing something? ...see below, particularly C8 the horn relay output contact...

BTW: This schematic diagram refers to the 2011 Toyota 4Runner 'Limited' edition.

 

[Okki]

Hi Okki,

According to this diagram both horns are tied to the very same horn circuit; am I missing something? ...see below, particularly C8 the horn relay output contact...

BTW: This schematic diagram refers to the 2011 Toyota 4Runner 'Limited' edition.

[MENTION=115060]rig[/MENTION]_tec:
Not sure; Mine is a 2010 limited. I'd have to check the electrical shop manual and compare. My understanding has been that the security horn is triggered separately from the traffic horn (may be faulty knowledge), so I just wanted Doc_Fry to be aware that he might be getting noise from 1 or 2 places. that was mainly driven by his mention of aftermarket security/remote starter systems.
[MENTION=117975]Doc_Fry[/MENTION]: did you check under the lid of the fuse panel? do you have a location diagram on it?

Okki

 

[rigtec]

"...My understanding has been that the security horn is triggered separately from the traffic horn (may be faulty knowledge)..."

Hi Okki,

This statement is 100% accurate! The Horn function and the Alarm function are initiated by two completely different electrical sources BUT... are joined to share common hardware. Next time you hit the horn, if you listen closely you will hear the 'harmonic pair' (High pitched and low pitched transducers) simultaneously! :music:

Cheers!

 

[Okki]

Hi Okki,

This statement is 100% accurate! The Horn function and the Alarm function are initiated by two completely different electrical sources BUT... are joined to share common hardware. Next time you hit the horn, if you listen closely you will hear the 'harmonic pair' (High pitched and low pitched transducers) simultaneously! :music:

Cheers!

LOL, My dual Hella horns already do that.... so I guess that makes me tri-monic! LOL :bump2:

(end tread hi-jack)

 

[rigtec]

LOL, My dual Hella horns already do that.... so I guess that makes me tri-monic! LOL :bump2:

Lol! You are crazy 'you know that'...!

Well you were right about there being an additional horn... I went under the hood determined to locate the horn relay for Doc_Fry but you can't do that by yourself. I tried disconnecting the 'Hi and Low' transducers in front of the radiator (so I could hear) and using the Panic button to start the horn blowing, but I forgot that there'd be several other relays chattering away as well e.g., Headlight rly, 4-way flasher rly, Security system alarm rly, and of course... the horn rly; which I couldn't find because of the other relay chatter! So I got in the truck, pressed the horn pad and I could hear the rly clicking. Then I ended up removing every relay one by one, hoping to isolate it. But when I had removed (what I thought was) every relay and pressed the horn again... it was still clicking :noidea:

Here's the inner cover 'Component arrangement' below:



"See the relay labeled S-Horn... the "S" is for 'Security system' Horn. But when I removed it, the steering pad horn still worked, so I needed someone to press the horn for me so that I could stand near the main Rly/fuse box and locate the horn rly that was clicking.

"Here's the actual S-Horn relay; see arrow below:



I'll check a few other places among the many electrical systems in the 'Mitchell Manual' and try and locate any additional Relays which involve the horn circuit. I've already checked the Forced Entry system schematic and it's the same as the one posted here already; with the exception of the steering wheel pad/switch which it does not show.

Rgds

 

[Doc_Fry]

Lol! You are crazy 'you know that'...!

Well you were right about there being an additional horn... I went under the hood determined to locate the horn relay for Doc_Fry but you can't do that by yourself. I tried disconnecting the 'Hi and Low' transducers in front of the radiator (so I could hear) and using the Panic button to start the horn blowing, but I forgot that there'd be several other relays chattering away as well e.g., Headlight rly, 4-way flasher rly, Security system alarm rly, and of course... the horn rly; which I couldn't find because of the other relay chatter! So I got in the truck, pressed the horn pad and I could hear the rly clicking. Then I ended up removing every relay one by one, hoping to isolate it. But when I had removed (what I thought was) every relay and pressed the horn again... it was still clicking :noidea:

Here's the inner cover 'Component arrangement' below:



"See the relay labeled S-Horn... the "S" is for 'Security system' Horn. But when I removed it, the steering pad horn still worked, so I needed someone to press the horn for me so that I could stand near the main Rly/fuse box and locate the horn rly that was clicking.

"Here's the actual S-Horn relay; see arrow below:



I'll check a few other places and try and locate any additional Relays which involve the horn circuit. I've already checked the Forced Entry system schematic and it's the same as the one posted here already; with the exception of the steering wheel pad/switch which it does not show.

Rgds

Ill try the relay you pointed out. i did pull the relay per the diagram that said s horn

 

[rigtec]

Hi [MENTION=117975]Doc_Fry[/MENTION],

When we first started investigating this 'Horn trouble', I believed it was a sticking relay causing the horn to continue blowing after you've released the horn pad. But after I read this comment I've changed my position...

Doc_Fry said: "...I made it stop by pulling the positive power lead on the battery. And when I reconnect it it is not honking at all..."

Something is holding the relay in electrically but after you De-energized it, that circuit cut out. A sticking relay can't behave that way because it's not electrical, but mechanical. As stated in an earlier post, your truck's electrical system is built on a 'Ground-side switch' platform, which means that all of the accessories e.g., radio, lighting, wipers, power windows, doorlocks... etc, are energized (HOT) when you turn the ignition on (some even without the IGN on).

So when you hit the on button to one of these accessories, the switch provides a GND (Not power) to initiate current flow. That said... you have a GND source somewhere, which is completing the horn circuit and causing the relay to pull in. It could be the alarm/security system, the 'New Remote Start' kit that was recently installed, Problematic MAIN BODY ECU or just a stray wire somewhere left behind by the installer, but that's what you'll need to find out/look for.

Cheers!

 

[WanderMan]

I had an 04 Jeep Liberty that did almost the same thing. It first happened at 2 a.m. when I was living in VA Beach in an apartment complex. I was woken up by the horn blaring constantly and no one was even in the vehicle. The horn stopped if I turned on the headlights. When I went to pull the fuze for the horn I noticed an abundance of moisture in the fuze box. It only happened one more time after that...same build up of moisture.

I'm not sure how the moisture build up occurred and I'm not sure why it only happened twice.

I can appreciate your frustration with this problem...I've been there. Good luck!

 

[rigtec]

Hi [MENTION=55815]Okki[/MENTION],

I remember at one time you were attempting to separate the upper and lower halves of the 'Main Rly/Fuse Box' (Engine room) to replace the 140A alternator fuse. What ever happened with that... were you able to get the two halves separated? Is it necessary just to replace the 140A main fuse? Best!

 

[Okki]

Hi [MENTION=55815]Okki[/MENTION],

I remember at one time you were attempting to separate the upper and lower halves of the 'Main Rly/Fuse Box' (Engine room) to replace the 140A alternator fuse. What ever happened with that... were you able to get the two halves separated? Is it necessary just to replace the 140A main fuse? Best!

I was trying to separate the halves to upgrade the alternator wires to be a thicker gauge in preparation for an alternator upgrade.

The details are in my build thread, but I was not able to separate the halves. I'll go with a second circuit once I upgrade the alternator.

best I know you need to separate the halves to get to the 140 amp fuse. It's a major pain to get to.

Okki

 

[rigtec]

I was trying to separate the halves to upgrade the alternator wires to be a thicker gauge in preparation for an alternator upgrade.

The details are in my build thread, but I was not able to separate the halves. I'll go with a second circuit once I upgrade the alternator.

best I know you need to separate the halves to get to the 140 amp fuse. It's a major pain to get to.

Okki

WOW! I guess it's best just not to blow that fuse... Thanks!

 

[Doc_Fry]

An Update as I had the dealer take a look at it over christmas. The dealer looked it and then contacted me saying that they could not do anything about it. They say that since an aftermarket remote/start, alarm, and cellular module installed that the installer is liable. Even thought the horn did not work before the alarm was installed. It is a hot mess. I plan on taking out the alarm anyway just to make sure there is nothing in there further causing any issues.

I am frustrated at the dealer Keith Pierson in Jacksonville where I bought it for not looking at it further. Yet, they have been known in the past to do such things. I will get it figured out I just hope I do not run into a situation where the use of it would prevent an accident that I would have. :fencing:

 

[rigtec]

An Update as I had the dealer take a look at it over christmas. The dealer looked it and then contacted me saying that they could not do anything about it. They say that since an aftermarket remote/start, alarm, and cellular module installed that the installer is liable. Even thought the horn did not work before the alarm was installed. It is a hot mess. I plan on taking out the alarm anyway just to make sure there is nothing in there further causing any issues.

I am frustrated at the dealer Keith Pierson in Jacksonville where I bought it for not looking at it further. Yet, they have been known in the past to do such things. I will get it figured out I just hope I do not run into a situation where the use of it would prevent an accident that I would have. :fencing:

Hi Steve,

I'm sorry that they're giving you such a hard time with this; I assumed you had gotten it resolved by now! I have to run out for a little while but when I come back I'd be glad to re-read this thread an have another look to see if we can come up with a solution to put this issue to bed once and for all!

Cheers

 

[Doc_Fry]

Hi Steve,

I'm sorry that they're giving you such a hard time with this; I assumed you had gotten it resolved by now! I have to run out for a little while but when I come back I'd be glad to re-read this thread an have another look to see if we can come up with a solution to put this issue to bed once and for all!

Cheers

Thanks, been out cause my service dog was diagnosed with cancer this past fall. Was taking care of her. But just this past week we had to put her to sleep as the cancer was just too much for her and she couldn't even walk anymore.

I will end up removing the remote start and trace all the wires I can when the weather is gonna be nice for a few days. I don't have a garage, and only a gravel area to work in. So cold, rain, etc all play a major factor of being able to work on the truck. Plus right now it is my only vehicle that I can use though I finally got the FJ back to pretty much stock and ready to sell, though need to do an alignment and bleed the brakes and register it. That was a major project due to time and health. But the money was worth it as it allowed me to do most of the mods to the truck right off of the bat.

 

[rigtec]

Thanks, been out cause my service dog was diagnosed with cancer this past fall. Was taking care of her. But just this past week we had to put her to sleep as the cancer was just too much for her and she couldn't even walk anymore.

I'm an avid dog lover and have experienced the very same thing with my pooch (Best friend, Chip)! ...so very hard to say good-bye ol pal!

I will end up removing the remote start and trace all the wires I can when the weather is gonna be nice for a few days. I don't have a garage, and only a gravel area to work in. So cold, rain, etc all play a major factor of being able to work on the truck. Plus right now it is my only vehicle that I can use though I finally got the FJ back to pretty much stock and ready to sell, though need to do an alignment and bleed the brakes and register it. That was a major project due to time and health. But the money was worth it as it allowed me to do most of the mods to the truck right off of the bat.

Back in October my wife had an aftermarket remote start system installed in her Camery. Immediately after that her radio started mysteriously coming on in the middle of the night, and three times the car left her stranded at home or at work. The installer (of coarse) denied any involvement with this strange behavior from the car but told her that it's a Toyota problem! Of coarse at that point I had to get involved with it, realizing that she was getting nowhere with any warranty coverage. And I too am subject to the weather and the elements of the great outdoors; working in the driveway and hoping/praying for temperatures above 40 degrees so I can work on the cars!

It turned out to be a couple of pinched wires in the D/S Fusebox; the 'HOT AT ALL TIMES' electrical buss was connecting with HOT WHEN IN ACC OR ON buss. And because the nature of the trouble was intermittent, it made things that much more difficult to isolate. What I ended up doing was cutting the radio (Intermittent) feed wire right at the headunit harness connector and installing a set of dry contacts (an interrupter relay) in the circuit so when the car is shut off the relay contacts are open; prohibiting any power from flowing to the hu.

When there's more time I'll likely remove the fusebox and repair the pinched wiring; the weather here (in NJ) has been too unstable to plan that repair up til now!Once again I'm sincerely sorry for your recent loss of family!

Greg (rigtec)