How do you know when it's time to sell?

[4RunnerAU]

From a pure $$$ perspective, there's lots of factors to include. You need to factor in things like depreciation, interest costs, add'l insurance etc. But, you also need to factor in lots of other things.

If you think about it this way, let's pretend you could buy a new vehicle for $30k and sell it for $5k after holding onto it for 10yrs/200k miles. That's $25k you'll lose in depreciation, or $2,500/yr or $208/mo. Include that with your monthly interest (if you finance), add'l insurance costs (because the value of your vehicle increases), future repairs you'll have to make on the new vehicle once it starts getting older (and stretching them out over the life of the car) and lots of other factors and you'll find that buying new isn't as lucrative as you think.

For me, though, I purchased new and plan to hold on because I wanted to stretch my depreciation out over as many years as possible and hope to enjoy a few years without a car payment. I've had a car payment since I graduated college in 2010 because I switched vehicles a few times.

I gotta think those repairs are extending the useful life of your vehicle and eventually you'll enjoy a period where you're not having to continuously repair it.

 

[Lugboot]

$100 a month for everything? That's almost silly. As others have said, routine maintenance, tires, etc., shouldn't be in that number. I probably go to the high side of the equation. If I have to fix something, it's more of, "Well, how many monthly car payments would this equate to?" Worst case scenario, if I'm spending on repairs what I could be paying for a new car, then it no longer makes sense. But that's extreme. But I got there with a POS 2000 Eurovan.

And then from there is becomes a mysterious amalgamation of perceived reliability, emotional attachment, suitability to desired usage, maintenance costs versus a car payment, and black magic.

For years our two vehicles were a 2000 VW Passat and a 1995 Land Cruiser. Would've driven both across the country in a heartbeat. The Land Cruiser would've just cost 3x as much in gas. We still have the Passat and it's the daily commuter with 340,000 miles on the clock and counting. Take care of your vehicle and it will pay you back.

I bought the 4Runner based on the Land Cruiser's reliability, Toyota reputation, and a bunch of research. I plan to own it for a long time. Cars are expensive and I don't like payments.

However all that aside, I also work with someone who is absolutely fine with the idea that she will always have a car payment. She hates owning cars for more than 3 years. Whatever works for her.

Don't look here for guidance on whether you should keep or replace--you'll just get a bunch of opinions like this one. You need to be comfortable with your own decision.

 

[KB Voodoo]

As soon as it hits its 3rd birthday, it's gone.

 

[NuclearN8]

My wife and I are at starting to have these discussions as well...

We own a 2005 Corolla with 175,000+ miles on it and not a problem with it. My wife has owned it since new and my goal is to keep it until the odometer stops at 299,999 miles (a known design flaw in this model this generation), just cause I can and as a fuel efficient option in our garage.

Our other vehicle is a 2007 4Runner Limited. Also not a problem with it, ever. Great SUV. we still owe a few coins on it, since buying it used in 2012 but we're well above water on it, even at trade in values.

I do all our maintenance and keep track of all the expenses.

... Could we afford a new Land Cruiser right now (and do my wife and I both want one?), yes. However, we also firmly believe in buying what we need, not necessarily what we want. Most financial decisions for us are also about value, what we get for the money we spend (and as I age, the time I put in maintaining the car)... which is another reason its real hard for me to part with a paid off vehicle that requires no major corrective repairs (by major I mean engine or transmission).... and another that is just as reliable that currently fulfill all our needs.

Factored on top of the above is my wife is set to graduate and get her PhD in 2016, after which, we'll move and she'll start working... and presumably we'll be buying a house wherever we land. Ideally, from a financial perspective it'd be nice to apply for our mortgage with no car payments on the debt side of our income to debt ratio....

So if I had to guess for us, we won't be buying a new vehicle until after we get the house closed on in another couple years. Lucky for us, we bought Toyota's and they last, seemingly as long as you want them to....

It's prudent to look at everything in your life, not just your vehicle situation in my eyes... your housing, your kid(s) and their schooling, your retirement, your cc (unsecured/ revolving) debt, student loans, and see what works best for you... if you don't have a $5-600/mo new vehicle payment could you otherwise put that money into your retirement 401K or IRA? If that answer is yes and your current vehicle is road worthy and safe, then I believe the smart financial move is obvious.

Good luck

 

[NuclearN8]

I've got a 2004 Sport Edition (my second 4Runner) with 158K miles and a few problems. The steering rack will need to be replaced soon (I was quoted about $1,300), there's some body work including front bumper replacement that should be done (I was quoted about $1200), but that's really about it right now.


Thanks very much for your opinions.

Let's talk about these issues and try to help you find more financially feasile solutions because honestly both these quotes seem freaking outrageous!

call CVJ for the steering rack or depending on the problem some lube might be all it needs... What exactly is the issue with your steering?

the front bumper cover does not cost $1200!!! shop around, ebay it, junkyard it.. if it's simply cosmetic damage to plastic the heck cares? got pictures of what will cost $1200 to repair?

 

[1engineer]

I didn't say it was disposable, but people not wanting to repair things or do proper maint when things get old are making it that way. Look at the fact that we don't even have a transmission dipstick. We have "lifetime" fluid, which is bullshit.

You people that want to sell your vehicle when it needs maintenance are the problem. Of course there is a line you have to draw economically when it costs more hastle than it's worth to you. But people selling cars because they need brakes or a coil pack goes out? **** you.

"Too much maintenance" is a flimsy excuse used by ninnies afraid to change their own oil and pompous *******s too insecure to be seen in anything but the newest vehicle. Fact is, it's a fawking Toyota. Maintenance costs averaged out over years will ALWAYS be less than the cost of a new vehicle. Always. I could put a new motor in my 1985 4Runner every year and still pay less over the course of that year than some of you spend on finance payments over the same timeframe.

It's not ever "time to sell". Keep what you've got. Pay it off. Take the money you would be spending on new truck payments and spend it on something that matters instead.

I have owned 27 vehicles in my 24 years of driving..... if I could just get back half of the money I wasted:sad: my 2015 SR5 is my 27th vehicle and If all goes as planned I will drive it til it croaks

Money:
You will ALWAYS save money keeping a vehicle for a long time instead of buying a new vehicle. Maintenance costs don't come close to the cost of a new vehicle, especially when factoring in depreciation.

Reliability:
This is a bit different but easily answered. Speaking strictly to the 4Runner, you will ALWAYS have better reliability with a new 4Runner than you will have with an older 4Runner. Always. The older they get the less reliable they get, even with new OEM parts.

Durability:
This is a tougher measurement. Durable is the time between failure of individual components. Application is a key here. Off road all the time or road warrior? The reality is the 4Runner is one of the most reliable and durable 4WD vehicles out there.

Safety:
Hands down a new 4Runner is ALWAYS safer than an old one generally speaking. Tougher standards and new tech make this statement true.

Efficiency: A new stock 4Runner is ALWAYS more efficient than an older 4Runner. Wear and age of components make this statement true. New tech also.

Features: A new 4Runner will not always have more features. Usually Toyota will offer the most features in the last year of a particular generation of a model run. When they introduce the new generation of a model, sometimes current features will be downgraded (ex: headlights, head unit) but new features will be added.

Bottom line: Strictly speaking, saving money is NOT going to happen when buying a new vehicle. "Money" is also a relative term. If you have enough money to buy a new vehicle and still provide for yourself and family then saving money by driving an old vehicle or spending money by buying a new vehicle is immaterial. You are going to spend money on something. Whether it is a vehicle or a vacation or retirement is a moot point if you have enough to spend on all of the above.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

I can't wait till I am old and retired... I will buy what I want, say what I want, and do what I want... haha. Good for you.



Not true. You just want the retired part but not the old part.

 

[Boardmember]

Ok, I agree with those here that say routine maintenance items should NOT be included in your average annual (monthly) expenses. Those expenses exist at generally the same intervals no matter the vehicle age. Note I said "generally," meaning tires, oil and wiper blades. That stuff.

Now what does the number look like?

I drive an '11 Tundra with 130k miles. I chose to put Bilstein 5100s on it, but shouldn't add that to my cost of ownership. (I'm allowed here. Wife drives '15 SR5P)

Separately, I like Trail14's reference to "B.F.E." Does every state have a location named that, or is it just that little town on the border of Alabama and Mississippi?

 

[Jernik]

1. when it spends more time in the shop than on the road.
2. when you can't trust it for the purpose you intended it for (for me if i couldnt trust a truck to get me to louisiana and back its gotta go, gettin stuck on i10 sounds like a terrible experience to me, and the wait for the tow truck just isn't worth it)
3. if youve got the money, and it isnt worth the headache for you any longer.

eh, that all makes sense to me, hope it helps you.

These are pretty much my thresholds. If I can't rely on it to get me anywhere I want to go, or if it's starting to become a nuisance constantly needing me to fix things, I'll get rid of it. I had my fill of bandaging up junkers to get by when I was younger.

Of course, there is a 3rd reason, which tips the scale heavily for me: When I see something shiny that I really want! :biggrin1:

 

[jrandom]

You people that want to sell your vehicle when it needs maintenance are the problem. Of course there is a line you have to draw economically when it costs more hastle than it's worth to you. But people selling cars because they need brakes or a coil pack goes out? **** you.

there were a few more reasons other than changing out the coils for me. The rack and coils were just two things that I did before I sold it.

 

[marshal]

there were a few more reasons other than changing out the coils for me. The rack and coils were just two things that I did before I sold it.

I wasn't singling you out, sorry. I was just speaking in general. My dad just sold his cherry 03 regular cab short bed f150 fx4, v8 manual because he had to replace the brake booster and 3 coil packs. Was upset.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

Another reason that helped me decide is that my 03 did not have side air bags. I used to not be concerned about this but after seeing people be saved from serious injury with them I decided it was worth it to me to update.

 

[Lugboot]

I wasn't singling you out, sorry. I was just speaking in general. My dad just sold his cherry 03 regular cab short bed f150 fx4, v8 manual because he had to replace the brake booster and 3 coil packs. Was upset.

I can see why. wow.

 

[jrandom]

I wasn't singling you out, sorry. I was just speaking in general. My dad just sold his cherry 03 regular cab short bed f150 fx4, v8 manual because he had to replace the brake booster and 3 coil packs. Was upset.

Wasn't butthurt. The "want to do"*"current time available" equation wasn't quite there. What [MENTION=95329]txbonds[/MENTION] did to his 3rd gen is about what I wanted do.

Seriously that is a crying shame.

 

[ben550]

View attachment 174618

I can't wait till I am old and retired... I will buy what I want, say what I want, and do what I want... haha. Good for you.



Not true. You just want the retired part but not the old part.

This is what I am looking forward to...

 

[sch0enne]

Another reason that helped me decide is that my 03 did not have side air bags. I used to not be concerned about this but after seeing people be saved from serious injury with them I decided it was worth it to me to update.

Very true.. My jeep had zero safety features..

 

[desertred]

This has been an interesting read with a lot of great responses that point toward the answer as being a very personal decision based on one's feelings and objectives; vehicular and otherwise. I've certainly been pondering this question regarding my 88XJ with 268K miles. Although I have about 100K on a remanufactured engine, the rest of the XJ has the full mileage. I've always done the maintenance myself (including the engine replacement), but its at the point where the tranny is on its last legs, the A/C needs to be replaced (for the 3rd time!), I'm repairing rust spots, the steering stem needs a lot of work, as well as the suspension. Even with me doing the work, its to the point that parts will cost well above my original purchase of the vehicle (I bought it with 157K on the odo). However, as others have pointed out, it is meeting the purpose for which I bought it and the parts will still be lower than the cost of a new vehicle. I do have two other vehicles that I can use if/when I initiate repair - or decide to sell.

I do have a habit of keeping/driving vehicles till the wheels fall off. However, when that occurs, I also have a habit of putting the wheels back on. Lots of wheel choices out there!

 

[mnofpeace]

A different take:

My 2003 F150 w 135K miles has been mine, and paid for, since 2008-purchased in 2004. i have had two engine overhauls performed, normal maintenance work, and thats about it. it has a leak or two, and its front calipers are pretty well scared. but its mine, and its basically a beater. with the engine work, it runs like a top, it just has a few squeaks and squawks when i ride in it..but, i only use it for local ride a-rounds and obvious pick-up truck stuff...

now, the take is this...i wanted a new 4WD vehicle back in early 2014. So the same question was in my head, trade in the pick up or what? what i did was, i got the latest overhaul and full tuneup performed in Feb 2014, replaced the front pads, and toughed it out. with no note to pay, very small insurance, and a little luck, i just saved my money over that yr, and drove that pick up hoping it wouldn't give me any more problems. and it didnt. and within that yr i saved up a nice down payment for my new T4R in Dec 2014.

and now, having not traded it in, i have both to tool around in. the Rnnr for daily driving, winter snows, family travel, and towing my motorcycle to the racetrack, the F150 i now drive once a week to keep the battery charged, to keep its parts moving so they lube themselves when needed, and to remind myself how wonderfully this truck has treated me over the past 12yrs.

And, the F150 keeps just that touch of mileage off of the Rnnr, as to keep it that much newer as the weeks of ownership go by.

if you can tough it out, hold onto your current Rnnr, drop your insurance on it to the minimal amounts, save some cash over a few months, then go in to get yourself a new(er) Rnnr, Taco, whatever...and just keep the old one to play with, to abuse, whatever.

just my 2 cents...

 

[nglayton]

$100 a month is "completely insane?" Just how much do you think he's going to spend a month on a new one?

$100 a month for maintenance is completely insane on an ongoing basis.

If you spend $1200 once a year for some big things like a starter, alternator, water pump or whatever that's a different story. However even then you should be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

A new one will be ZERO a month for maintenance. (theoretically) A completely different cost analysis, regardless of the monthly purchase price.