I feel frustrated as a lifelong Toyota fan. Anyone else?

I’ll just put a big fan on my chase vehicle. Honestly what’s the point of that? Drop a banana peel or throw a turtle shell before using a lame smoke screen.

BTW I’m not a frustrated Toyota fan. Everything’s good in the 3rd gen world.

I think it could be really effective in a situation like a parking garage. Or a crowd of people depending on how it smells. If you're worried enough to buy an armored land cruiser - I guess you're probably willing to pay a lot for something like that.
 
I think it could be really effective in a situation like a parking garage. Or a crowd of people depending on how it smells. If you're worried enough to buy an armored land cruiser - I guess you're probably willing to pay a lot for something like that.

I could see parking garage hadn’t thought of that
 
Ummm..... Camry is the best selling car in America, Corolla is the best selling car of all time. Toyota didn't HAVE to change anything, even the MY17 Camry outsold everything else on the road. The MY18 is a huge leap forward.

Saying Toyota is all about the money...well duh. It's a business. Businesses are about making money. I'm not sure why you would say that like it's a bad thing, that they wouldn't just frivolously change a model if they don't need to seems like a very good business model IMO.

Ummm....yes they did have to change it in order to stay competitive. To stay ahead. The Camry is in the most competitive segment of the industry. They change it and update it more frequently than any other model they have.
 
JL Wrangler

So the new JL Wrangler 'build it' page went live today. It sure looks tempting! And it also makes me frustrated as heck that we are still waiting on a new 4Runner. I would much rather be in a Toyota, but I will have to give the Jeep a serious look. I am ready to replace my 03 with something modern.
 
If you guys want to feel real frustration go buy a Ford. my wife’s 7 year old Expedition with about half the miles of my 18 year old 4Runner requires no exaggeration quadruple the work and maintenance. My wife has gone from we can’t afford to get rid of it it’s going to have to last until it’s 15 years old to maybe we just need to suck it up and take on a car payment so that we are not always having to work on it.

I’ll have a hundred “outdated styling” Toyota’s before I have another Ford
 
If you guys want to feel real frustration go buy a Ford. my wife’s 7 year old Expedition with about half the miles of my 18 year old 4Runner requires no exaggeration quadruple the work and maintenance. My wife has gone from we can’t afford to get rid of it it’s going to have to last until it’s 15 years old to maybe we just need to suck it up and take on a car payment so that we are not always having to work on it.

I’ll have a hundred “outdated styling” Toyota’s before I have another Ford
You shoulda known that from the get go :)

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If you guys want to feel real frustration go buy a Ford. my wife’s 7 year old Expedition with about half the miles of my 18 year old 4Runner requires no exaggeration quadruple the work and maintenance. My wife has gone from we can’t afford to get rid of it it’s going to have to last until it’s 15 years old to maybe we just need to suck it up and take on a car payment so that we are not always having to work on it.

I’ll have a hundred “outdated styling” Toyota’s before I have another Ford

It's amazing how people seem to ignore this reality ha. It's either they have the time and/or the money to maintain these non-Toyota vehicles. If that is the case, I need to change up my lifestyle haha.
 
You shoulda known that from the get go :)

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Oh I know

We had plans to get another Yukon XL to replace the 2001 model we had gotten rid of but I test drive both a newer Yukon XL and Suburban and we HATED them both. So we were left with the Expedition EL to meet our needs so thats what we got.
Toyota needs to stretch a Sequoia out or a couple of kids need to graduate and leave home
 
Oh I know

We had plans to get another Yukon XL to replace the 2001 model we had gotten rid of but I test drive both a newer Yukon XL and Suburban and we HATED them both. So we were left with the Expedition EL to meet our needs so thats what we got.
Toyota needs to stretch a Sequoia out or a couple of kids need to graduate and leave home

If Toyota would do this, there is a opportunity to appeal to ice hockey parents who have multiple kids playing. The vehicles you mentioned dominate rinks because how big they are in comparison to the LC/Sequoia.
 
If Toyota would do this, there is a opportunity to appeal to ice hockey parents who have multiple kids playing. The vehicles you mentioned dominate rinks because how big they are in comparison to the LC/Sequoia.

Here most of hockey parents have diesel pick ups but we do have a lot rednecks who want to overcompensate for other things
 
Haha I can see that. You see that here but not near the same rate I'd you would see out your way. GM and Ford dominate the large SUV demographic in p-lots just because full-sized trunk space.
 
Oh I know

We had plans to get another Yukon XL to replace the 2001 model we had gotten rid of but I test drive both a newer Yukon XL and Suburban and we HATED them both. So we were left with the Expedition EL to meet our needs so thats what we got.
Toyota needs to stretch a Sequoia out or a couple of kids need to graduate and leave home

I don't blame you, those big new Yukon's and Suburban's, YUCK man. can you imagine having to dry one of those by hand after a carwash? Or the gas tank size/mileage on them? Sheesh.

Anyways, I'm surprised that a Sequioia can't fit your family, must be a huge family.
 
It depends on what's being hauled. If it relates the topic at hand, if you have 3 or more kids playing ice hockey, the Sequoia won't be as convenient as Yukon Denali XL.
 
I don't blame you, those big new Yukon's and Suburban's, YUCK man. can you imagine having to dry one of those by hand after a carwash? Or the gas tank size/mileage on them? Sheesh.

Anyways, I'm surprised that a Sequioia can't fit your family, must be a huge family.

The mileage isn’t horrible no it’s not a Prius or a Civic but it’s not awful I don’t think it’s awful. It costs about $55 to fill up right now and that will get me about 375ish miles on the highway as long as it’s not driving in super windy conditions. My 4Runner is also about the smallest vehicle I have ever owned I have always had full size V8 pickups minus the S-10 Blazer I had for a back up vehicle and I had a Chevy Colorado but it sucked on mileage the 4 cylinder might as well been a 572 cubic inch motor. That being said I might be out of reality on what good fuel costs really are

4 kids between 2 and 14 plus luggage for 6 people on trips to my moms and other outings.
 
It depends on what's being hauled. If it relates the topic at hand, if you have 3 or more kids playing ice hockey, the Sequoia won't be as convenient as Yukon Denali XL.

Just 1 kid playing at the moment, 1 dropped about 2 years ago after a couple of concussions. My daughter is supposed to start hockey in March and my 2 year old spends all day batting a golf ball through the house with a knee hockey stick. I’m pretty sure when he turns 4 he is going to play. Just a hunch

I’m gonna need some cargo space and $$$$
 
I think the Sequoia would probably work early on. You'd think that you'd be do for a bigger vehicle to comfortably handle the people, equipment and luggage that you mentioned. As one of three boys playing hockey, I know how it was for a tournament that was out of state. With a family of six, space comes at a premium haha.
 
If we could manage a smaller SUV I’d pick the Highlander my Ops manager has a 2016 I absolutely love riding in that thing it’s very comfortable. My wife would go for the Buick Enclave and I do like those but not as well as the Highlander.
 
You shoulda known that from the get go :)

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I just read this entire thread and I can't help but chime in, even though I historically avoid the time suck that is arguing with stubborn, biased people on forums. But, as an owner of a 2015 Ford Platinum 4x4 and a 2017 Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro I would like to give my thoughts.

My 4Runner has 4,450 miles on it and I am already considering selling it as I feel like Toyota hasn't done enough to keep me as a customer. My Gobi rack hasn't even arrived yet (ordered via recent Group Buy) and the CVT Denali Summit Series is still in the box in the garage (again a GB) but all I can think about lately is how much can I get for all this if I decide to wash my hands of the brand. Yes, I knew what I was buying. Yes, I waited two months for the TRD Pro to arrive by boat. Yes, I justified the decision like a lot of others by saying this was a lifestyle that I wanted to enjoy more. But none of that seems to carry much water when I remote start my F150 before cooling my azz on the ventilated seats which massage my irritated behind down the congested highway which is made easier to manage thanks to the collision warning system, lane departure system (aka designated driver), quality stereo, etc.

I could go on and on about what features I wanted and would have gladly paid for if given the opportunity when I was ordering the 4Runner. I could complain about the size of the screen or the inability to know my F'n tire pressure. But I will just be wasting my time and yours. Ultimately, the F150 is the best selling truck for a reason (and the previous post arguing that profit margin is associated with a better vehicle is about the most nonsensical thing I have read tonight.) I can only assume that Ford listened to their customers who said, "I would like a truck with bells & whistles, and you know what I will pay for it." So Ford has the Platinum, the Raptor, King Ranch, Limited, etc. You can literally cherry pick what you want. But Toyota totes this industrial philosophy of efficiency which imo says, "tough shit consumers, but look how efficient and reliable we are." And no doubt reliability is important. But so is the driving experience. And boys, once you have had a cool breeze up your junk with a seat massaging your ass, you just don't want some automaker to arrogantly try to sell you what they consider a premium model 4runner for the alleged enthusiasts but tell you that if you want any creature comforts then you need to compromise your demands. Anybody willing to wait several months for a factory to build it and put it on a boat is also the same guy willing to part with more cash to get what he wants.

A previous poster commented that his feedback to Toyota was largely ignored. Well I gave feedback recently at the State Fair of Texas and more recently to the GM of a local dealership and I too recognize the feedback approach doesn't work. Selling the 4Runner (which I have not committed to) would be a personal stance on holding Toyota accountable for their poor appreciation for the age old mantra, "The Customer is Always Right." Maybe I will sell this unique, reliable, versatile vehicle and maybe I will return to the brand once Mr. Big Cheese gets their act together (really great post btw). Or maybe I will get my Gobi, put on the CVT, go camping and further appreciate what I already know; it is something more than a daily driver. I really don't know which way I will go and I am not seeking suggestions. I merely mention all this to say that you can scream about how great the 4Runner is and you will largely be supported (this is T4R after all) but the market for F150 is loyal because the truck continues to adapt to the desires of the customer. Every day we vote with our dollars. What food we buy, what brands we trust, what statements we want to make. Our dollar is our vote for which companies/states/countries we wish to support. Selling the 4Runner may be a zero-sum effort for Toyota but it would maintain my expectation for what automakers need to be doing to meet American market expectations.

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The world isn't just what it used to be before. Most consumers in the states don't even have a clue, let alone, know to even maintain their car(even by bringing their car to a dealer). The problem is, theres just no more incentive to make a great car any more, states side, because most consumers in the states are borderline retarded and/or, just think of a car as a transportation device, from A to B. They just don't give a F*** about their car or anyones car, and will knowingly dent other peoples cars. Furthermore, the US has the most retarded car standards in the world. Safety, smog, etc.. Why would they put in all the extra time to comply with the retarded safety/smog standards of the US, when they could build an even better car in another country? FFS, most american's can't even drive, or even know what the hell a manual transmission is. Other countries? Most people KNOW/LEARN how to drive with a stick. On top of that, the US driving standard is COMPLETE BS. You could literally pass the driving test high on drugs.

If you go to Japan, you'll actually have car enthusiasts and/or people who respect cars. They maintain them regularly(due to laws), but know to do so as well and dont have all these stupid laws for smog. It's unlikely you'll see dinged up car, or with a head light out, etc, in Japan or Europe. Hell, Crash rating standards are better in Europe and Asia, but it's not approved by the US government, thus, we can't import them, along with the stupid smog laws we need to comply to. I get that we can't have open downpipes, blowing smog, etc and all, but COME ON. The US gov expect most cars to have the same emissions every time they get smogged, as if they just came out of a factory.

So to answer your question, I honestly don't think it's (as a whole) Toyota's fault at all. Toyota USA is building an adequate car for the majority of Americans who can't maintain their car, regularly drive like idiots causing accidents, and think that a car is just a transportation device. For the rest of the world, Toyota is building what we get here, and also investing on the enthusiast type Toyota's because it's just worth their time and money to do so.

Examples:
Toyota Mark, kind of like our Avalon
Prius
Basically a Yaris
Their GT86? Look at them seats. They're actually bucket seats. And our trim levels from factory? Our Special edition doesn't even compete.

Subaru?
They've got a WRX S4, which beats the living crap out of our WRX. STI? STI Type S? STI S207? S208? They are able to get recarros and the car is just set up so much better from factory. Look for yourself.

Levorg? They've got a family wagon. They've got a Levorg STI too.

This could keep going on. But my point being... Toyota USA is just building an adequate car for the majority of American's who don't give a crap about their cars and knowingly bang up peoples cars and aren't enthusiasts. The rest of the world is building that same/similar adequate car for the majority of people, but are also making the vehicles for the people who are actually car enthusiasts.

Grown man bars right here.
 
To the OP:

I was thinking of getting a new Taco TRD. I LOVE the look, and the offroad accessories are cool. However, I read enough posts like yours on Tacoworld to dissuade me from buying one.

The 4R was barely on my radar, but after reading about enough Taco guys saying the 4.0 was better and switching to the 4R, I started doing my research. Sounds like it ticks all the boxes for me, haha.

I was actually hot on the JKU for a while too, but decided I didn't want to deal with the compromises in that vehicle for what will be a 99% pavement daily driver. Plus, even as a former Jeep owner, I question their reliability.

So, the Runner has the (relatively) rugged simplicity, genuine offroad capability, space, and reliability that I want. Plus stupid high resale :)
 

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