Icon, Fox, or King?

[weeeee]

Ok, my plan is a lift and level, 3" in the front. Even with loosening at high speeds, will the icon's still be stiffer than a stock sr5?

Not looking to burn money, but my Grandfather always said, "better to have and not need, than need and not have."


He also put ketchup on everything; even his soup. Grandpa could have been bat shit crazy... I don't know, I was only a kid.

Probably. Icons use digressive valving, meaning the shock softens up as the shaft speed increases. Freeway speeds won't really have much of an effect, when I said high speed stuff I meant more desert driving where the shocks are getting worked.

 

[Brandonium]

Here is what I have found thus far for Fox setups. If you go to the Fox website and you punch in the Gen5 4-Runner you will get coil-over options for front and rear. This is pretty basic as you have two length options (0-2" or 0-3" in lift) in 2.5 w/DSC.



If you are wanting the rear 2.5 option w/DSC you are limited to (0-1.5") of lift which is less than what most of us are wanting/needing. If you want longer you are forced to drop down to the 2.0 performance series (0-1.5" & 0-3" options)

In speaking to [MENTION=99702]jrandom[/MENTION] & [MENTION=112391]Stillbreathn[/MENTION] you can use Tundra spec 2.5 w/DSC rear shocks however you will need to change out the lower bushing to a 3/4 bushing (based on the Tundra Bilstein 5100 swap I think). If someone has additional or different information than this feel free to chime in. See below.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/112871-how-press-shock-bushings-out.html

This is what I have received back from Fox when inquiring about the Tundra 2.5 vs the 4-Runner 2.5 rear shock.

The part number 883-26-004 is designed for up to 1.5” of lift, we would not recommend going over this.
The tundra rear shocks are close to the same design, but use a different size lower eyelet and have slightly stiffer Valving. They are just over 1” longer.​

I've requested information on putting on the Tundra shock from 2 separate vendors and they don't really like the idea of doing this but with DSC it makes sense since you can dial in the ride you want. It's not as though I would be tossing in a non-adjustable shock. Plus it's been done before without issue. Expect some kick-back when ordering or order separately I suppose.

For comparison here are the two shocks as listed on the FOX website.



My only issue is now is trying to decide on which rear springs to use with this setup. I had been looking at the OME 2889 but I am not sure if a 3" rear spring would be too much even though I plan to be somewhere around 2.5"-3" on the front coil-overs.

A 3" total rise at all 4-corners would leave me with the 2" factory rake no? And a 2" rear spring would bring that down to 1"?

Fox told me that the ride was stiff. I disagree. They ride softer than pre loaded spacer lifts. The only thing I would suggest in your selection is extra travel. It is nice to have. I would love long travel but have zero use for it as a daily driver. You will be pumped with all three options.

Still when compared to what though? A factory setup? And was this for a setup with DSC? I am curious how soft of a ride can be dialed in or is this setup still stiff even when dialed in at the softest setting? And by extra travel are you talking about the 3" coil-over vs the standard 0-2"?

I'll be running 140 lbs worth of sliders and a Gobi rack which is an evenly dispersed 100lbs or less so nothing heavy hanging on the front or real although I typically have 2 people + 2 dogs (45 lbs combined) + luggage for that size crew.

Also, 275/70R17 Load C tires since I feel I cannot tune out the stiffness of Load E tires. Feel free to correct me on this if you can.

Fox and King have specs for the total chaos kit. I'd start there. My Tacoma was total chaos long traveled and I used fox with total chaos specs on my Coilover and triple bypass. Worked great.

Alignment Specs? I've not come across anything like this so I am curious.

I wasn't keen on the colors and considered them anodizing mine black and red. But even king warned us that the anodizing tends to get thrashed off road. Hence why they're mostly silver. But the colors do grow on you for sure.

King came back and told me they could change colors but they could not change the spring color.. which makes no sense but I am not one to argue. I just wish they had the adjustability of the Fox setup. They are a sharp and trusted setup for sure. :biggrin1:

Also, [MENTION=99702]jrandom[/MENTION] this was the response from Fox when I inquired about sourcing the front coil-over with a heavier rated spring.

Can this coil-over be had with a 650# spring vs the 600# spring that comes with it by default?
Other springs scan be switched in, however from us they are only available with a 600lb spring. (14” x 3.0” ID x600lb)​

AND I also inquired about pushing the front coils to 3 since King doesn't really condone this with their front coil-overs.

Are there any issues running this coil-over at 3" of lift? Is there a loss of ride quality if running at the max 3"? What height are these set to by default?
Out of the box they will provide 2” of lift, they are designed to go up to 3” so there will not be any problems in doing so.​

 

[Dorobuta]

Normally, I would get what I need and call it a day, however i've read too many posts where the bilstein's leak after a few months of highway.

Can anyone comment on the road manners of an icon stage one?

I'm running the Icon stage 2, just like I did on my FJ. Road manners are nice, solid feel, not harsh or soft. I don't think you'd be disappointed if you went this route.

 

[maddiesel67]

Im going with 3" metaltech progressive springs in the rear.

As far as i can tell You shouldnt have any problem running the tundra shock in the rear with a bushing swap. For the extra extension.

Its also my understanding that front shocks from the newer jeep jk also work with a bushing swap because they have the same stud upper.

 

[Jetboy]

A lot of good info from Brandonium!

One minor addition to it for people who may not be aware is that the valving is the stack of valves on the piston. The DSC adjusts an orifice that restricts flow of oil to the reservoir. This is essentially a secondary dampening that allows a plus or minus range (really it's just a minus range) of dampening. The Tundra and 4runner are probably close enough that it will give sufficient range to get a good ride on the 4runner, but the range of available adjustment won't be the same on both if they have different primary piston shim stacks.

If you're running heavy with a bunch of additional weight, the tundra ones may be better.

Also FWIW - I'm running Fox 2.5 Factor RR fronts w/o DSC and Fox performance 2.0 rear shocks and am pretty happy with the ride quality. I have had 5100's on my prior 4runner and I prefer a progressive shock *unless* it's a more advanced shock with an internal bypass. On an internal bypass shock I might prefer a digressive dampening in the second stage.

 

[braaap]

Jetboy,

Can you describe the ride quality? How does it compare to stock? How much, if any lift are you running in front? What rear springs?

I'm looking at getting the same setup.

Thanks

 

[GzTEP]

Alignment specs will be fine. The specs I was referring to were the valving specs and shock travel spec.

 

[GzTEP]

I was in the exact same boat when I was looking into my Coilover and rear shocks. I looked at King,fox and icon. I nearly did the fox Coilover listed a couple posts up with the tundra rears, but after talking with both fox and King I felt that icon did more R&D. The shock shaft stroke made me question all three manufacturers for 5th gens. So far so good with my icons with CDC. They squeeze every mm they can out of their shock travel.


The fox tundra rear shocks listed above I believe are valved one step lighter then the 4Runner because of truck/suv they told me. If you do get a compression adjuster they'll have about 9 clicks or so. Middle setting 4/5 would be a shock off the shelf valved for oem without an adjuster. Setting 1 would be softer and 9 stiffer. I run my icons on 4 or 5 in the dirt and 2 or 3 on the street. Fox has a dual speed adjuster DSC.

 

[maddiesel67]

Do you remember the numbers for extension and stroke between the 3?

Also king and fox have extended versions ment to be used with uca's. Does that make a difference?

 

[Brandonium]

Nice add! My only real exposure to shock adjustments has been on my bikes so I know..a little different here. I realize there is a LOT of versatility when running coil-over and having adjustment options only adds to that.

I suppose I would have to try it on for size to see which settings worked best for me. I'd like to have the ability to soften it best as possible for when I have people with me on road trips vs. running down a fire road vs. just me going about my daily grind. I typically prefer a slightly stiffer and more responsive feedback but perhaps that is from my previous time behind my german and swedish vehicles.

Still, definitely don't want to be beat to hell on pavement.

The slight mis-match in valving should not be a cause for concern right?

I've decided on 2" rear coil but options are limited in the 2" it seems.

Hopefully this turns into a comprehensive coil-over thread as we need one. I had a hard time getting information on Fox. Icons not so much as they are the most popular in the 4R forums it would seem.

I was in the exact same boat when I was looking into my Coilover and rear shocks. I looked at King,fox and icon. I nearly did the fox Coilover listed a couple posts up with the tundra rears, but after talking with both fox and King I felt that icon did more R&D. The shock shaft stroke made me question all three manufacturers for 5th gens. So far so good with my icons with CDC. They squeeze every mm they can out of their shock travel.


The fox tundra rear shocks listed above I believe are valved one step lighter then the 4Runner because of truck/suv they told me. If you do get a compression adjuster they'll have about 9 clicks or so. Middle setting 4/5 would be a shock off the shelf valved for oem without an adjuster. Setting 1 would be softer and 9 stiffer. I run my icons on 4 or 5 in the dirt and 2 or 3 on the street. Fox has a dual speed adjuster DSC.

 

[enkrypt3d]

2 hours limping off the trail, 5 hours putting a stock shock back on(buddy had to drive home and get one, had limited tools), 2 hours slowly driving 45 miles home

Icon was cool about replacing it, but my truck was out of commission for 3 weeks, and I had sufficiently little faith in them that I spent the money on a spare coil-over and lugged it around on every off-roading trip I took after that.

what were you doing to cause this???

 

[enkrypt3d]

Here is my 1st hand experience with Icons, on my '11 Tacoma:

so u going to tell us what u were doing that caused this or what? Making some sweet jumps? :biggrin2:

 

[T4RZAN]

Sorry to dig up an older thread, but I'm curious: For those running King front and rear, what rear springs are you using? With their site saying 1.5" lift max, what springs do you run? Thanks in advance

 

[CoolMax]

Sorry to dig up an older thread, but I'm curious: For those running Fox 2.5 front and rear, what rear springs are you using? With their site saying 1.5" lift max, what springs do you run? Thanks in advance

 

[FattyHunter]

Sorry to dig up an older thread, but I'm curious: For those running Fox 2.5 front and rear, what rear springs are you using? With their site saying 1.5" lift max, what springs do you run? Thanks in advance

I run Radflo rear coils, that's 2 inch lift but I have 2.0 rear. I think they have 2 versions of the shock heights. 0-1.5 and 2-3.

 

[bonegatron]

Sorry to dig up an older thread, but I'm curious: For those running Fox 2.5 front and rear, what rear springs are you using? With their site saying 1.5" lift max, what springs do you run? Thanks in advance

Running 2.5's (no resis) up front, and 2.0 shocks in back. 4WP recommended I roll with Icon's 2" springs in rear (sku: ICO 52700), which have felt fine. I loaded 265s mounted on stock wheels in the back to take home after the install, and there is basically notail-end sag.

My old runner had Icon stage 1 with KDSS. I don't know if it was either or a combination of the both, but my initial impression was that it rode rigidly. I could feel every joist & imperfection on pavement, but body roll was nonexistant.

In comparison, I really like the progressive valving of the Foxs....it feels smoother and less harsh on road (even if it is placebic ). Have yet to take them speed wheeling, but i imagine median off-road performance is similar.

 

[LawnDart]

Icons are Digressive. Fox/Kings are typically linear shocks or slightly progressive in their valving.

So it's actually opposite. Icons are softer on road, but usually don't fair well at speed.

 

[PeoplecallmeIan]

Icons are Digressive. Fox/Kings are typically linear shocks or slightly progressive in their valving.

So it's actually opposite. Icons are softer on road, but usually don't fair well at speed.

Do you think it was worth it to go LT? I have a set of kings for mid travel but thinking it might be better to ditch the stock set up for a long travel set up. I currently run the Icon's and was going to switch to the kings but in the end I felt that staying with the mid travel isn't going to be enough for what I want my 4runner to be capable of. I like to go fast in the desert. I'm probably not going to be able to do it til next year because... $$$.

Also, is it necessary to run glass?

 

[LawnDart]

Do you think it was worth it to go LT? I have a set of kings for mid travel but thinking it might be better to ditch the stock set up for a long travel set up. I currently run the Icon's and was going to switch to the kings but in the end I felt that staying with the mid travel isn't going to be enough for what I want my 4runner to be capable of. I like to go fast in the desert. I'm probably not going to be able to do it til next year because... $$$.

Also, is it necessary to run glass?

Unless you're prepared for the maintenance, and cost (it gets pretty spendy) to upgrade the other things BESIDES just the basic suspension components, and your plan is to go fast, then I'd say extended travel is fine for most people.

And no, glass is not required for most situations. People keep thinking that the fenders are the restricting factors on fitting large tires. It's a LOT of small things that have to be modified and the fenders represent just a small portion of the issue.

 

[PeoplecallmeIan]

Unless you're prepared for the maintenance, and cost (it gets pretty spendy) to upgrade the other things BESIDES just the basic suspension components, and your plan is to go fast, then I'd say extended travel is fine for most people.

And no, glass is not required for most situations. People keep thinking that the fenders are the restricting factors on fitting large tires. It's a LOT of small things that have to be modified and the fenders represent just a small portion of the issue.

From what I've gathered. The UCA/LCA kit, gusset spindles, extended axles. BMC. Then there's the larger tire upgrades...regear and tires. Anything that I'm missing?