ICON Vehicle Dynamics 1996 – 2002 Toyota 4Runner Suspension Systems

[snivilous]

Look at the top photo on this page, it shows a 4Runner and you can clearly see the shocks upper rotation axis isn't parallel with the suspensions. Meaning that the shock isn't just rotating about the axis of the bearings outer race (like a tacoma), but has a slightly angled rotation--meaning that the misalignment spacers are probably load bearing, versus the load being purely through the inner and outer races (if that makes sense). I doubt bearing stresses (in the bearing :wink2 are increased though, because the misalignment should be transferring compressive loads so the area of the bearing stresses wouldn't decrease (for all practical reasons). Assuming I'm understanding what everyone is saying :nerd:

 

[MTD]

misalignment spacers are probably load bearing, versus the load being purely through the inner and outer races (if that makes sense).

My only concern the more I think about it is that because it is rotated is that it may side load that uniball which could lead to a premature failure in cheaper uniballs.

 

[TotalAutomotiveLV]

FYI everyone. Everything you are discussing above only applies to the stage 1 & 2 kits which feature the NON RESERVOIR coilover.

The Stage 3 and up kits feature either the 58716 or 58716C coilover, which is specific to the 96-02 4Runner (Tacoma is 58715 or 58715C) and uses a completely different top hat.

Have to make this text huge because people are missing it...

 

[TotalAutomotiveLV]

My only concern the more I think about it is that because it is rotated is that it may side load that uniball which could lead to a premature failure in cheaper uniballs.

ICON uses FK Uniball.

 

[ajonesnv]

I am not suggesting it I am telling you that they do use different uniballs. I can tell you have never spec'ed out any mechanical parts, there is vast variety of uniballs and even though a pair may look identical one could be much softer than the other or made from cheaper steel in general. The overall cost of the shock has to be cheaper to offer prices that low.

Agreed.

And I didn't think Sway-A-Ways (at least the ones I have) were considered cheap, maybe not as popular...they still want 1299.00 for a set where ICON wants 1207.45.

 

[TotalAutomotiveLV]

Agreed.

And I didn't think Sway-A-Ways (at least the ones I have) were considered cheap, maybe not as popular...they still want 1299.00 for a set where ICON wants 1207.45.

We dont want that much money from you guys for the ICONS. :reddance:

 

[ajonesnv]

We dont want that much money from you guys for the ICONS. :reddance:

I promise once Im in the market I'll give you a call

 

[MTD]

Agreed.

And I didn't think Sway-A-Ways (at least the ones I have) were considered cheap, maybe not as popular...they still want 1299.00 for a set where ICON wants 1207.45.

Ah I see I thought you had 2.0's for some reason. Still the later still applies, it all depends on what they selected

 

[TotalAutomotiveLV]

Couple of shots posted in the FB group of Mason's sweet looking overland rig. We supplied the ICON shocks and OME springs on this beast

 

[meRockboost]

So if the FK hymen contacts the uniball then the angle of the suspension axis rotates around a top hat that is made for a fish taco?

Can I get the stage 1 setup that doesn't have a hymen uniball?:lmao:

I am not suggesting it I am telling you that they do use different uniballs. I can tell you have never spec'ed out any mechanical parts, there is vast variety of uniballs and even though a pair may look identical one could be much softer than the other or made from cheaper steel in general. The overall cost of the shock has to be cheaper to offer prices that low.



I see what you mean, but I personally still believe that the difference will be negligible. As you said it isn't ideal, but it isn't a big enough difference to justify the extra cost involved to develop separate 4runner specific top plates.

 

[TotalAutomotiveLV]

So if the FK hymen contacts the uniball then the angle of the suspension axis rotates around a top hat that is made for a fish taco?

Can I get the stage 1 setup that doesn't have a hymen uniball?:lmao:

For you anything. I give you nice price.

 

[Brilliant]

When the suspension compresses it pushes the bottom of coilover outward, perpendicular from the truck, hence when they (and other Manufacturers) made these (for the Tacoma) the joint was designed/build perpendicular with the truck. On the 4Runner it works, BUT the more compression, say from harder off-road travel, the more that joint is put under opposing pressure. The joint is facing one direction while the truck is pushing it 15* in another, even at full rotation back it is off by 6-10*

I can attest to the fact that ever time my sway-a-ways have been rebuild this joint has to be replaced. While on the other hand my buddies Icons on his Taco haven't.

So before it was a limitation of travel, now its a loading issue? I'm not following...

 

[ajonesnv]

So before it was a limitation of travel, now its a loading issue? I'm not following...

You might be merging two conversations. The extended coilovers offer a bit more travel, which was an answer to another question asked. I don't remember discussing travel outside of that.

In your quote of my statement I was referring to the upper joint being affected by the opposing pressure due to the clocking of the top hat of the coilover on the 4Runner compared to the Tacoma.

 

[Brilliant]

You might be merging two conversations. The extended coilovers offer a bit more travel, which was an answer to another question asked. I don't remember discussing travel outside of that.

ok

They are still clocked different, so the articulation is partly limited....

FYI everyone. Everything you are discussing above only applies to the stage 1 & 2 kits which feature the NON RESERVOIR coilover.

Got it, this makes more sense.

ICONs are great, very happy with my setup.

 

[Mgyver1]

Just for some visual reference, here is a Tacoma and a 4Runner top hat to show the difference. The top is a Tacoma and the bottom is the 4Runner. As you can see by the slot, that's how much angle difference there is.

Just curious, since Icon obviously makes 4Runner specific top hats, why do they only put them on the external reservoir coilovers instead of all coilovers sold for a 4Runner? I get they CAN work on a 4Runner, but if that were the case then why not make the 4Runners sit straight and have the Taco guys deal with the angle?

 

[JWaldz]

^^ Thank you for the visual.. I was having a hard time understanding and this image put it all together for me.

I reckon there's no fix for it.. Not for my sway-a-ways at least cus they only made them for a Taco. If they had a 4Runner version I could rebuild them with the correct top hats. I wonder how similar other brand top hats are.. If I can rebuild my sway-a-ways to adapt an Icon 4runner top hat?

I get the concept but I'm not sure it's enough stress for the general population. Not saying that over time you wont see some wear, but you're suppose to rebuild these things anyways. I could see it being a problem quickly if you're out constantly jumping dunes, but I don't see but maybe a handful of us doing that and the ones that are have long travel. Regardless, it's not going to change my wheeling habits and the type of wheeling I do. Mine are due for a rebuild soon anyways.

 

[sn0wrunner]

Just curious, since Icon obviously makes 4Runner specific top hats, why do they only put them on the external reservoir coilovers instead of all coilovers sold for a 4Runner? I get they CAN work on a 4Runner, but if that were the case then why not make the 4Runners sit straight and have the Taco guys deal with the angle?

This is the real question. Or to avoid having different top mounts for each model they could do what Toytec does with their top mounts for the "Boss" and "ultimate" coilovers where they machine one single top mount with 3 different bolt patterns. One for 4Runner, one for Tacoma, and one for Tundra/Sequioa.

This one is set up for a 4Runner. The middle hole would be for a Tacoma, and the last one is for Tundra/Sequioa.

 

[JWaldz]

Icon has been doing this a long time.. I don't know when they first produced the coilovers for the Tacos/4Runners but I'm willing to bet a reservoir option was not available then. The top hats couldn't allow for a reservoir tap so they redesigned the top hat to accommodate it. They probably realized the difference in the taco/4runner by then and made ones for each...


Just a guess?

 

[MTD]

This is the real question. Or to avoid having different top mounts for each model they could do what Toytec does with their top mounts for the "Boss" and "ultimate" coilovers where they machine one single top mount with 3 different bolt patterns. One for 4Runner, one for Tacoma, and one for Tundra/Sequioa.

This one is set up for a 4Runner. The middle hole would be for a Tacoma, and the last one is for Tundra/Sequioa.

They did that for the tundra/sequioa and tacoma/4runner setup, but not specific for the taco and the 4runner.

 

[JWaldz]

Well Mr. [MENTION=94545]MTD[/MENTION] how bout you print us up some 4Runner top hats. I'll take one for my sway-a-ways