If gas gets to $5.00 a gallon
- Thread starter JP4RNR
- Start date
jrs2 said:
30 years ago there were federal tax credits for solar energy improvements during Jimmy Carters administration. Lots of houses spouted roof top solar heaters, usually preheating water heater water. It cost nothing with the tax credits and saved hundreds a year. Cost the government next to nothing. If that had just continued, every house in the country would have integrated solar energy of some sort by now.
Then Reagen came to office and immediately stopped it. It's been downhill ever since.:bash:
josh220
Banned
Interesting article.....
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=473819&topart=hybrids
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=473819&topart=hybrids
sl0annuggets
New member
i wouldnt mind paying 5 a gallon if college was free and had free healthcare
TeryT
New member
Please don't say this too loudly as some politician will hear you and surely raise my taxes. And you might think that's OK, but the efficiency of the fed is pretty low - meaning if $10 goes in we're lucky to get $5 out the other side after the inefficient monster overhead bureaucracy gets done "processing" it! :gun:sl0annuggets said:
sl0annuggets
New member
On my local news last night (RI), they had all these soccer moms complaing about the price of Milk and cheese. Ill always bust on soccer moms but it really is sad, with whats happenening.. Changing the way you have to shop and live.
the other day, my economics professor said.
" you know, osama really kicked our ass with 9/11, he changed the way we all live in this country. Thats when you know you got your ass kicked, if you change the way you live your life."
Then he said "After 9/11, if i was president, I would have told our country if they want to be patriotic. To get up earlier, to drive slower to conserve fuel and put a hurting on their quality of life."
I think that one way or another we have to slow down our gas consumption because if these companies think they will get it they will sure as hell try.
It really sucks that the price of fuel is a variable in everything else's cost. Shipping anything has gone up incredibly... Cement is through the roof. Ill just go get a hang glider lol
ps sorry about the length
the other day, my economics professor said.
" you know, osama really kicked our ass with 9/11, he changed the way we all live in this country. Thats when you know you got your ass kicked, if you change the way you live your life."
Then he said "After 9/11, if i was president, I would have told our country if they want to be patriotic. To get up earlier, to drive slower to conserve fuel and put a hurting on their quality of life."
I think that one way or another we have to slow down our gas consumption because if these companies think they will get it they will sure as hell try.
It really sucks that the price of fuel is a variable in everything else's cost. Shipping anything has gone up incredibly... Cement is through the roof. Ill just go get a hang glider lol
ps sorry about the length
Jeff Kleb
New member
Fuel has gone up here in VA as well.....but nothing like Kommiefornia. Regular unleaded is $3.56 per gallon and diesel is running about $4.09 right now (as of 4-27-08). We just switched over to the "summer blend" of reformulated gasoline, which also made the price jump a bit.
People tend to blame the oil companies, and they do deserve some scrutiny; but nobody is thinking about stupid government policies (mainly fiscal and environmental) that also exacerbate the problem. There is also the OPEC thing, rising demand elsewhere around the world and the general decline in the value of the dollar in comparison to other currencies.
Things, unfortunately, will get worse before they get better. Ripple effects are going to be felt elsewhere in the economy, some people will "tighten their belts" in other areas, but I doubt any of the proverbial soccer moms will trade in their SUVs for hybrid cars or bicycles.
:bash:
P.S. I drive I-95 every day, and nobody is slowing down at all. Seems as though time is still worth more than a few more miles per gallon -- at least it still is to me. Plenty of large vehicles going 75 or 80 and not getting more than 14 or 15 mpg at that speed.
Last edited:
iflyablackbird
New member
A Canadian Response
This has been a really interesting thread!!
We all agree that, when you look at the profit levels of the major gas companies, the levels are out of sight. I bet anyone on this board in business for themselves could even dream of such profits. Something that is often forgotten is the govt. subsidies many of the fuel suppliers have received over the years. One Canadian company - PetroCan, was once govt. owned, so as taxpayers we developed that company and then they sold it, it's now a private company and they sold it at a huge discount.
So this leads to the next thought.
Something that has been discussed lately in Canada is to stop buying fuel from two suppliers... Esso and Petrocan. This has even been the subject of numerous spam email campains. The general idea is that if you stop buying fuel from these companies then they will be forced to lower prices, which in turn will encourage surrounding stations to do the same. We've all seen price wars between stations in a small regional area, let's help add fuel to the fire.
These are the stations that have been targeted in Canada, according to the numerous emails I've received, maybe the guys South of the border have already circulated similar emails. If not maybe you could/should.
Another idea that I found intreguing is to use acetone in fuel to increase mileage, with claims of 20-30% gains I thought I should give it a try and I put the required amount in my tank this week. Unfortunately I haven't driven much this week so I don't have any results to report yet. Once I've run a couple of tanks through I'll report back in.
I'm pretty sure the idea has been talked about here but here is a link to the article.
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
Mark
This has been a really interesting thread!!
We all agree that, when you look at the profit levels of the major gas companies, the levels are out of sight. I bet anyone on this board in business for themselves could even dream of such profits. Something that is often forgotten is the govt. subsidies many of the fuel suppliers have received over the years. One Canadian company - PetroCan, was once govt. owned, so as taxpayers we developed that company and then they sold it, it's now a private company and they sold it at a huge discount.
So this leads to the next thought.
Something that has been discussed lately in Canada is to stop buying fuel from two suppliers... Esso and Petrocan. This has even been the subject of numerous spam email campains. The general idea is that if you stop buying fuel from these companies then they will be forced to lower prices, which in turn will encourage surrounding stations to do the same. We've all seen price wars between stations in a small regional area, let's help add fuel to the fire.
These are the stations that have been targeted in Canada, according to the numerous emails I've received, maybe the guys South of the border have already circulated similar emails. If not maybe you could/should.
Another idea that I found intreguing is to use acetone in fuel to increase mileage, with claims of 20-30% gains I thought I should give it a try and I put the required amount in my tank this week. Unfortunately I haven't driven much this week so I don't have any results to report yet. Once I've run a couple of tanks through I'll report back in.
I'm pretty sure the idea has been talked about here but here is a link to the article.
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
Mark
Wolf
New member
RonMAIDEN said:
I'll be buying a cheap late '90s Civic and parking the 4Runner except for fun and winter driving.
I drive an '02 Tacoma 4 banger P.O.S. to work that I never wash and abuse and I save my 4R for play and the weekends! -keeps the milage on my 4R low, keeps it in nicer shape and I don't have to worry about it all the time in parking lots getting dings and such.
sl0annuggets
New member
it seems that if we invest in our country's education we cant screw things up too much....
Here is a nice Article from Glenn Beck
NEW YORK (CNN) -- If you're a poor sap who needs to eat or drive in the near future, then you might want to consider taking out a second mortgage (assuming you could even get one) pretty soon.
Food and gas prices have been all over the news lately, and even a big dumb rodeo clown like me can see that it's all connected. Our policies, which try to cater to everyone from oil company executives to environmentalists, end up benefiting no one -- and now we're all paying the price.
I know that real economists probably will say that the causes of these skyrocketing prices are extremely complicated to understand, but the truth is that it's actually pretty simple: We've done this to ourselves.
I don't know if it's because of our arrogance, our stupidity or maybe both, but I believe that history may one day judge America as the most suicidal superpower of all time. After all, what country that cares about its future would do what America has done to its supply of food and fuel, two of the most critical things that any civilization needs to survive?
For example, look at the way we treat our food supply. We've spent decades giving billions of dollars in government subsidies with incentives for the wrong things, we've mandated that huge areas of farmland stay open for "conservation" and we're using grains that could feed tens of millions of people to make a crappy biofuel that you can't even buy anywhere.
That's not arrogance?
Our fuel policy has been even more absurd. We're completely dependent on foreign countries, many of whom hate us, to keep our trucks moving, our planes flying and our homes warm.
That's not arrogance and suicidal stupidity?
Take a look at the top five countries we currently rely on for oil imports. You tell me if these are the five you would choose if you were creating your own world superpower from scratch: Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Nigeria, Venezuela.
Aside from Canada, that's not exactly a "Who's Who" list of stable, America-loving countries.
And if you think I cut off the list at five because the next five are so friendly, think again. Here's the next five: Iraq, Angola, Kuwait, Colombia, Ecuador.
The point is that we don't control our own destiny, foreigners do. Despite bipartisan hatred for high oil prices, they've gone up 49 percent since 2006. If we could've done something, anything, to stop that, we would have. But the sad fact is that we can't.
That's why, instead of offering real solutions, most politicians offer something else: blame. Democrats blame Republicans, Republicans blame Democrats, and nothing ever gets solved. President Bush provided a good example of that last week when he was asked about high oil and gas prices.
"We've had an energy policy that neglected hydrocarbons in the United States for a long period of time, and now we're paying the price. We should have been exploring for oil and gas in ANWR, for example," he said. "But, no ... our Congress kept preventing us from opening up new areas to explore in environmentally friendly ways. And now we're becoming, as a result, more and more dependent on foreign sources of oil."
Personally, I think the president is right; we should be drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. In fact, we should've been drilling there a decade ago, but that's not the point anymore. Opening ANWR now would be like stopping at the bathroom on your way to the electric chair; you're only delaying the inevitable.
Should we still do it? Yes. Frankly, we need all the time we can buy ourselves to find a long-term solution; our nation's very survival is at stake. But ANWR is not the answer, it's a Band-Aid, and I worry that our shortsighted politicians would use it as an excuse not to look for viable replacements for oil, which is what we really need.
Fortunately, there is some good news in all of this: Oil prices this high mean that a lot of formerly dismissed alternatives will finally make good economic sense.
For example, back in 1980, Congress passed the Energy Security Act, which led to the creation of something called the Synthetic Fuels Corp. (SFC). Lawmakers provided SFC with up to $88 billion in loans and incentives to get started (the equivalent of about $230 billion in today's dollars) with the goal of creating two million barrels a day of synthetic oil within seven years.
So why aren't you putting SFC oil into your SUV right now? Well, it turns out that members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries didn't appreciate the competition so they started bringing down the price of oil. From 1980, when SFC launched, to 1986, when it was shut down, oil went from more than $39 a barrel to less than $8 a barrel. Suddenly, synthetic oil didn't seem so important anymore.
In announcing the SFC's closure, then-Energy Secretary John Herrington said that oil prices had simply dropped too low to make it a viable business.
But the good news is that those economics don't work anymore. The state of Montana, which is leading the synthetic fuel charge, says we can now make it for somewhere around $55 a barrel. That's more than a 50 percent discount from what it costs to buy the real stuff.
It's the opportunity of a lifetime, a chance to use OPEC's price gouging and monopoly against it.
So let me be the big, dumb rodeo clown once again and ask the obvious question: Why aren't we doing it?
NEW YORK (CNN) -- If you're a poor sap who needs to eat or drive in the near future, then you might want to consider taking out a second mortgage (assuming you could even get one) pretty soon.
Food and gas prices have been all over the news lately, and even a big dumb rodeo clown like me can see that it's all connected. Our policies, which try to cater to everyone from oil company executives to environmentalists, end up benefiting no one -- and now we're all paying the price.
I know that real economists probably will say that the causes of these skyrocketing prices are extremely complicated to understand, but the truth is that it's actually pretty simple: We've done this to ourselves.
I don't know if it's because of our arrogance, our stupidity or maybe both, but I believe that history may one day judge America as the most suicidal superpower of all time. After all, what country that cares about its future would do what America has done to its supply of food and fuel, two of the most critical things that any civilization needs to survive?
For example, look at the way we treat our food supply. We've spent decades giving billions of dollars in government subsidies with incentives for the wrong things, we've mandated that huge areas of farmland stay open for "conservation" and we're using grains that could feed tens of millions of people to make a crappy biofuel that you can't even buy anywhere.
That's not arrogance?
Our fuel policy has been even more absurd. We're completely dependent on foreign countries, many of whom hate us, to keep our trucks moving, our planes flying and our homes warm.
That's not arrogance and suicidal stupidity?
Take a look at the top five countries we currently rely on for oil imports. You tell me if these are the five you would choose if you were creating your own world superpower from scratch: Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Nigeria, Venezuela.
Aside from Canada, that's not exactly a "Who's Who" list of stable, America-loving countries.
And if you think I cut off the list at five because the next five are so friendly, think again. Here's the next five: Iraq, Angola, Kuwait, Colombia, Ecuador.
The point is that we don't control our own destiny, foreigners do. Despite bipartisan hatred for high oil prices, they've gone up 49 percent since 2006. If we could've done something, anything, to stop that, we would have. But the sad fact is that we can't.
That's why, instead of offering real solutions, most politicians offer something else: blame. Democrats blame Republicans, Republicans blame Democrats, and nothing ever gets solved. President Bush provided a good example of that last week when he was asked about high oil and gas prices.
"We've had an energy policy that neglected hydrocarbons in the United States for a long period of time, and now we're paying the price. We should have been exploring for oil and gas in ANWR, for example," he said. "But, no ... our Congress kept preventing us from opening up new areas to explore in environmentally friendly ways. And now we're becoming, as a result, more and more dependent on foreign sources of oil."
Personally, I think the president is right; we should be drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. In fact, we should've been drilling there a decade ago, but that's not the point anymore. Opening ANWR now would be like stopping at the bathroom on your way to the electric chair; you're only delaying the inevitable.
Should we still do it? Yes. Frankly, we need all the time we can buy ourselves to find a long-term solution; our nation's very survival is at stake. But ANWR is not the answer, it's a Band-Aid, and I worry that our shortsighted politicians would use it as an excuse not to look for viable replacements for oil, which is what we really need.
Fortunately, there is some good news in all of this: Oil prices this high mean that a lot of formerly dismissed alternatives will finally make good economic sense.
For example, back in 1980, Congress passed the Energy Security Act, which led to the creation of something called the Synthetic Fuels Corp. (SFC). Lawmakers provided SFC with up to $88 billion in loans and incentives to get started (the equivalent of about $230 billion in today's dollars) with the goal of creating two million barrels a day of synthetic oil within seven years.
So why aren't you putting SFC oil into your SUV right now? Well, it turns out that members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries didn't appreciate the competition so they started bringing down the price of oil. From 1980, when SFC launched, to 1986, when it was shut down, oil went from more than $39 a barrel to less than $8 a barrel. Suddenly, synthetic oil didn't seem so important anymore.
In announcing the SFC's closure, then-Energy Secretary John Herrington said that oil prices had simply dropped too low to make it a viable business.
But the good news is that those economics don't work anymore. The state of Montana, which is leading the synthetic fuel charge, says we can now make it for somewhere around $55 a barrel. That's more than a 50 percent discount from what it costs to buy the real stuff.
It's the opportunity of a lifetime, a chance to use OPEC's price gouging and monopoly against it.
So let me be the big, dumb rodeo clown once again and ask the obvious question: Why aren't we doing it?
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