If gas gets to $5.00 a gallon

[ram]

Gotta agree, if I knew gas was looking to top over $4, would not have bought the T4R.

I get a solid 18 mpg from my SR5 V-6. Commendable performance from a vehicle this size, but am now debating selling to get something else. I haul kids, and the tow requirements for me are low (3500 or less) so the Rav 4 or CRV is looking good now.

BTW, The Journal of Oil & Gas online is saying (in the Market Watch article near the top today) that:

"Predictions of $150-200 oil are "more like bull's-eyes than forecasts," giving the "herd" of traders new targets to aim for$150 - $200 p.b. is not unrealistic."

Since I dont' "need" the capabilities of my T4R, I'm seriously looking at other options to limit my loss of market value, as well as keep my commute costs in check (about 35mi/day). Seems wasteful to hang on otherwise.

 

[biglatka]

Gotta agree, if I knew gas was looking to top over $4, would not have bought the T4R.

I get a solid 18 mpg from my SR5 V-6. Commendable performance from a vehicle this size, but am now debating selling to get something else. I haul kids, and the tow requirements for me are low (3500 or less) so the Rav 4 or CRV is looking good now.

BTW, The Journal of Oil & Gas online is saying (in the Market Watch article near the top today) that:

"Predictions of $150-200 oil are "more like bull's-eyes than forecasts," giving the "herd" of traders new targets to aim for$150 - $200 p.b. is not unrealistic."

Since I dont' "need" the capabilities of my T4R, I'm seriously looking at other options to limit my loss of market value, as well as keep my commute costs in check (about 35mi/day). Seems wasteful to hang on otherwise.

The trouble is that SUV's like the 4Runner and larger have already taken big hits in their respective resale values. The cows have gotten out and it may be too late to close the barn door. I would suggest that you calculate, based on $4.00/gal & $5.00/gal, where your break-even point would be if you traded your 4Runner for a RAV or CRV. It may be longer than you expect and not worth it on a financial basis alone.

 

[JungleJim]

I get a solid 18 mpg from my SR5 V-6. Commendable performance from a vehicle this size, but am now debating selling to get something else. I haul kids, and the tow requirements for me are low (3500 or less) so the Rav 4 or CRV is looking good now.

The CRV is not towing 3500 lbs.. And there is no way the RAV4 is towing right at it's limit, unless you have no cargo, no passengers, and you weight 150 lbs. or less..

This is where I'm stuck. I need to be able to tow 3500 lbs.. I need something with more than just a 3500 lbs. tow limit. The 5000 lbs. limit of a 4Runner V6 is perfect for my needs and gives me the little extra leeway to be safe.

Plus, the 4Runner gets about the same, or better, mileage than even a minivan. If I didn't need/want to tow, I'd look for something else. But I will admit that I've been thinking about whether I really need to tow or not recently.

 

[Uneek]

This is where I'm stuck. I need to be able to tow 3500 lbs.. I need something with more than just a 3500 lbs. tow limit.

The gasoline model Highlander is 5000lbs. The Highlander Hybrid is 3500lbs only. But the gas improvement isn't significantly better on the gas model over the 4Runner, EPA MPG rating for the Highlanger is 17 city and 23 highway for the AWD and 18 city and 24 highway for FWD model. The Hybrid gets 27 city and 25 freeway though.

 

[ram]

Found a temporary solution.

Borrowed (possibly long term) my mom's 2004 camry XLE 4 cyl. The car's computer registered (for about 2 miles) up to 40.7 mpg (no wind, flat surface, steady throttle at 50 mph through a construction zone. I realize this is a constant calculation and not an average milage, whcih is key.

So, I laid off the accel / decel, and was happy to see a constant 38 mpg on the commute to work (today it was about 28 mi. one way).

If I can get a solid mid 30's out of this sedan on average, then I may be buying a camry in the near future!

Thought I'd share.

 

[ram]

Sorry for replying so many times, but thought this was worth sharing. . .

See this article from WSJ Market Watch that estimates $6 - $7 / Gallon. Maybe my "solution" won't keep me from selling.

My guess is that the good ole' USofA is in for an "adjustment" to our standard of living. I think I'm gonna go puke now.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

I like the "If" in the thread title since it should've read "when".

Well my 4Runner is about a year from being paid off so not having a car payment will ease the gas woes and I only drive about 9000 miles a year.
I'm still considering an older Civic since anything over 25mpg would be nice and I want to keep the miles off of my truck.

Our xB is getting 30 in the city and almost 38 highway so it's a good offset for the 4Runner.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

Wow! Am I ever glad that I turned my '05 4Runner back in at the conclusion of my lease. Whew! I am also happy to still have my '02 Nissan Sentra GXE for "commuting" duty - so I can keep from having to drive my 2008 Mustang GT (4.6L V8).

Unleaded regular here is running about $3.79 to $3.85 - depending upon the time of day it seems.


Diesel fuel is up to about $4.60, much to the chagrin of anyone in the trucking business. I drive tractor-trailers and large straight trucks for a living, and I can tell you that the transportation industry is suffering right now. I see our company trying to "consolidate" some of our routes and turning all of our trucks back to 69 mph to save a few bucks.

As a driver, that would totally suck - but I can certainly understand the position of the boss man. Hey, I am just happy not to be an owner-operator right now. Those chaps are taking it in the shorts. When your rig holds 300 gallons and it runs over $1200 every time you fill it up and you get 6 mpg (if you are lucky), you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to understand how hard it is just to break even.
:bash:

Around here, I don't see anyone curtailing their driving. During rush hour (which keeps getting worse and worse as the months go on), almost every car has one occupant. More than 50% of the vehicles on the road is way larger than necessary for driving to and from work. My gut feeling is that people are cutting back on other things - such as home improvement, vacations, dining out, recreational spending, etc., etc.

We are going to have some type of ripple effect throughout the rest of the economy, but it will take some time to see just where things are impacted and to what extent. This whole situation really stinks, especially since we could have avoided most of these problems if our national leaders had some cojones a few years back.

Crying about "oil supplies" from foreign sources is sort of like whining about the price of Perrier water while a clear blue stream runs through your back yard. We have plenty of our own resources (syn-fuel from coal, shale oil, Montana reserves, ANWR, Gulf Coast oil, etc., etc.); so now it comes down to a matter of harvesting them and ramping up our domestic refining capacity. Demand ain't going to decline, so we must find ways to increase our available supplies. Well, I am not going to hold my breath!

 

[Odd Eddie]

Jeff,

I'm guessing that your Mustang GT gets worse fuel economy than your old 4Runner. Is that correct? The EPA ratings aren't very good for V8 Mustangs, just like 4Runners.

I agree that people are cutting back elswhere due to higher gas prices. For me, I can't worry too much about it and I refuse to change my driving or vehicle regardless of how high gas prices may be in the future. I've heard stories of $7/gal gas by next summer. I have no idea if that's even possible at this point, but I don't doubt it. It still wouldn't make me change my habits (or vehicle) if it does happen.

 

[Jeff Kleb]

Fuel Economy


The V8 Mustang does better.....believe it or not. I suspect that it is because it is lighter than a 4Runner, more aerodynamic (less wind resistance), lacks 4x4 ability, has a stick shift and it has taller axle gearing. There is also a lower ratio of pounds to horsepower.

My Mustang GT gets 16 to 19 locally - compared to 15 to 17 for the 4Runner. On the highway, the GT can easily pull out 23 to 25 - even at constant speeds above 70 mph. The 4Runner was able to knock out 21 mpg on a good day of all-highway driving.

At 75 mph, the Mustang's V8 is only turning 2200 RPMs in fifth gear; and I know that helps with fuel mileage. The biggest problem is keeping your foot out of it, as the exhaust note sounds so darn sweet. 300 hp - bone stock; not bad.
:girl:

I leased my GT, so I am going to leave it as is with no modifications -- but it is quite easy to spend two or three grand and bump its 4.6L V8 up to over 400 hp (cold-air intake, performance chip, Flowmaster exhaust, etc., etc.). The Mustang's factory drivetrain is capable of handling extra horsepower & torque, as Ford knows many subsequent owners will be "hot rodding" their cars further down the line. (Look at how many "old" Fox Mustangs from '79 to '93 have been modified for mind-boggling performance!)

Sweet exhaust sounds just do not come from rice-burners, you know!

 

[Neversummer]

Well $5/gallon is not far off people. It was $4.59 in Chicago today...ouch!

A couple of months and it will be $5/gallon and I predict $5.50-6.00/gallon by Christmas at the latest.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

It's not going to continually rise but we are being trained to accept well over $3/gal right now but it'll drop a bit now that we are past the holiday weekend bu5t expect more of the same next month and then over Labor day but it'll hover around $4 for a while now and maybe next spring we could see well over $5.

 

[rustyrazor]

It's already over $5/Gal in Canada.

Here's the math.

$5/Gal divide by 3.78L per Gal is $1.32/L. That's US dollars and the exchange is $0.99 CDN per $1 US (www.xe.com) so when the price went over $1.33/L canadian we hit the $5/gal mark.

This past week I saw a few gas stations at $1.35/L.

This doesn't apply to me though because I live in a border town and get my gas in the USA. It was $4.25/Gal when I filled up on Sunday.

 

[blaniac22]

I just think we're all being had...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/cftc_probe_wsj_dc

U.S. oil probes focusing on price manipulation: report

A U.S. regulatory probe into potential oil-market trading abuses is focusing on possible short-term manipulation of benchmark crude prices and the use of information related to important oil storage tanks to influence prices, the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday.


The report comes a day after the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, under pressure from U.S. lawmakers to crack down on speculators they blame for pushing energy prices to record highs, said it would step up market surveillance.

The CFTC announced a nationwide investigation into energy trading last December, but is in fact pursuing several oil investigations, many of which relate to one another, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing people familiar with enforcement priorities of the agency.

It has expanded its probe into alleged short-term manipulation of crude-oil prices via a widely used price-reporting system run by Platts, a unit of McGraw-Hill Cos (MHP.N), the newspaper reported.

The probes appear to focus on gambits well known by traders in the opaque physical oil market, where trading a small volume of cash crude or gasoline during a short period when benchmark prices are set can yield big profits on derivatives positions.

Oil traders say that these kind of leveraged trading plays -- which are generally not illegal -- were more common prior to the Enron melt-down and the California power trading scandal that triggered increased scrutiny of world energy markets earlier this decade, but rarely had a lasting effect on prices.

However traders and analysts believe that increased investment from pension and other funds into commodities markets is partly responsible for causing prices to quadruple since 2004, with U.S. crude hitting a record high of $135.09 a barrel last week after rising by more than 40 percent this year alone.

 

[K_Labs]

Screw The 4RUNNER time to get on the bike! This is based on the recent price hike. 4.25 a gallon is bull

LOL..... Some people out there would have to sell their cars for gas.

 

[Jim_Chow]

[snip]
Any of you ever drove a diesel-powered Toyota truck? How did you like it?


P.S. My company owns some Hino (Toyota's heavy truck division) box trucks, and they are very, very quiet diesel engines - well, when compared to an International or Freightliner anyway.

I've ridden in 3 Toyota diesels, all owned by my in-laws overseas. One is a crown sedan, rwd, @1993, 2 liter turbo diesel, gets 35mpg highway. It will easily haul 5 adults up a mountain pass w/o straining, engine is quiet. Next vehicle was a '94 hilux surf 4WD, 1KZ-TE 3 liter turbo w/o intercooler, got around 24mpg, mostly highway. It too, had plenty of torque for hauling passengers/gear uphill. The new D4D TD's put out more power w/ slightly better economy. Third is a Toyota Dyna Ace 4WD @2000, commercial flatbed (built by Hino). All engines are pretty quiet (audible in the cabin, but barely). Although the engine displacements seem small, TD's have ample power. The problem w/ the new low sulfur diesel is it takes17% more oil to produce than gas. I would expect a 4runner w/ modern D4D TD go get around 20-22/25-27 mpg due to the vehicle weight. I'm sure you can do better w/ the same engine in a lighter vehicle like a Taco. In fact, Toyota did sell the hilux surf in Japan w/ 1KD-FTV TD up to around 2004, then discontinued it there due to stricter air quality reg's.

Over the holiday, I was in So. CA, diesel there cost $5.25/gal, a full $1 gal more than chevron 91 octane! So that's 25% more for diesel, so any diesel auto better get more than 25% better fuel economy to make up that difference. Toyota/honda could easily import small displacement TD's in the 1.5-1.8L category that put up big numbers like 35-40mpg city and 45+ mpg highway (provided they can meet EPA req's), but they'd be sacrificing their hybrid lines at the same time, and figure Toyota is trying to recoup their investment in hybrids and ride the hybrid wave as long as they can in N.A.

As far as why oil is that pricey, I think it's mostly market speculation. If it were pure supply and demand, does one really think that demand doubled in the last 1.5 yrs? Just think. Investors, whether domestic or overseas, have to put their money somewhere. In the late 90's, it was the stock market. After that went belly up, it was real estate. Now it's energy. All that money has to go somewhere. Also, since the real estate market went bust, people are pulling their investments out of the US and weakening the dollar, driving up inflation. The usual remedy is to jack up interest rates to strengthen the dollar and lure more foreign investment, but the Fed Reserve knows if they do this, more Wall St. investment banks will default & go under. So they are making everyone pay higher energy/food prices with a weaker dollar to keep Wall St. and banks afloat. My vote is it's the Fed Reserve's fault..they didn't do anything to cool the real estate before the bubble burst (or stock markets in the 90's), and all they're doing now is bailing out their Wall St buddies at the expense of everyone else's wallet. Worst of all, we can't even vote to throw those guys out, as they're appointed...

My $0.02 (or 0.005 gal of gasoline)...

 

[K_Labs]

ANYTHING W/4 wheels MUST GO

Sorry to say it but I'm going to have to sell

http://toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=324390#post324390

 

[pipspeak]

Stay with it... this is an oil speculation bubble IMO that does not reflect supply and demand situation despite what greedy traders want us to believe. How did the supply and demand balance change so dramatically in three years, especially now consumption is falling in the US and Europe? That's just rediculous. Did China suddenly discover cars in 2005? Hardly. Once the spculators are dragged outside and shot, and the dollar recovers a bit, the price will drop to a more reasonable $50-$80 a barrel, which actually reflects the supply and demand situation, and we'll all be driving gas-guzzlers again.

I just wish Toyota would do two things as a result of high gas prices -- give us the option of a six-speed manual gearbox on all models and give us the option of a turbo diesel on all trucks and SUVs. I'd buy a six-speed turbo-diesel 4runner in an instant, despite living in a city of hills.

 

[josh220]

Stay with it... this is an oil speculation bubble IMO that does not reflect supply and demand situation despite what greedy traders want us to believe. How did the supply and demand balance change so dramatically in three years, especially now consumption is falling in the US and Europe? That's just rediculous. Did China suddenly discover cars in 2005? Hardly. Once the spculators are dragged outside and shot, and the dollar recovers a bit, the price will drop to a more reasonable $50-$80 a barrel, which actually reflects the supply and demand situation, and we'll all be driving gas-guzzlers again.

I just wish Toyota would do two things as a result of high gas prices -- give us the option of a six-speed manual gearbox on all models and give us the option of a turbo diesel on all trucks and SUVs. I'd buy a six-speed turbo-diesel 4runner in an instant, despite living in a city of hills.

That's the flip side of the coin though. Most "experts" (if you want to call them that) are estimating $5 per gallon by years end, and for barrels to eventually reach $200 before it ever drops. It will be interesting to see what actually does happen once this all pans out. I can't see the majority of the population paying 6,7, or even 8 dollars for a gallon of gas though. That would be ridiculous if you ask me.

 

[Neversummer]

I agree with the impact of market speculators and the trading industry but I think a lot of people are being a little short sighted and not taking account of the global picture.

China and India alone, due to their rapid industrial development, will DOUBLE global oil demand over just the next 10 years alone. That is crazy huge! Their automotive industry alone has grown to ridiculous proportions over just the past 3 years. Manufacturing, mining, transit and materials are blowing up also. I spend some time in both China and India due to business requirements, and the growth is overwhelming, especially mainland China. Just take a look up in the skies next time you are there!

China's interests in the Middle East have to be watched very closely because they realize that they need to be sat at the table to secure their future oil requirements. How they go about this is anyone's guess. This opens up a whole kettle of fish with regard to Foreign Policy, MoD, National Security, etc etc. Another topic altogether. But more importantly for now, the US needs stronger relationships and bargaining power to compete with China, and India to a lesser extent.

That leads to US Foreign Policy which has been extremely detrimental to both the US economy, our perceived global reputation, and procurement interests. Relationships are strained with many of our "vendors" right now and prices have suffered as a result. Much rebuilding needs to be done. Then there are the greedy oil companies that have the greedy politicians in their back pockets, plus their lobbyists running Capitol Hill. $100,000/month is quite a lot of motivation for some people.

Gas is almost $5/gallon right now in Chicago. I think it hit $4.80 downtown. It will easily surpass that marker by Christmas, and I pretty much guarantee $6/gallon in 2009.

I'm no expert but you can bet your house on one certainty. Gas prices will continue to rise over the next few years.