Importance of Center Locking Diff/E-locker...

[BrianSD_42]

No offense meant, but if you look at the actual facts, it's hard to compare 2 different drivers with different tires in different vehicle.

None taken. As I said above we were not off-road at all and I'm not comparing off-road.

What I said was we were driving on pavement that was covered in snow and ice.

My understanding is that AWD will out perform 4WD in these conditions. Is that wrong? Please chime in with a simple yes or no and why.

 

[Chevetteer]

I'm pretty new to the Toyota world, and haven't driven a Runner with the AWD/Part-time system, but I have owned and driven several Jeeps with the part-time/full-time transfer case.

IMHO, wanting the full-time/part-time shouldn't be seen as pointless. I know in my neck of the woods when driving in the winter there are many sections of road where it transitions from icy to dry pavement quickly. Sure, you can shift in and out of 4wd easily, but I can say it's nice to not worry about it, and just cruise on in comfort. It's up there with cruise control and variable speed wipers - of course you can drive easily without it, but it is very nice to have. Also something to keep in mind; what if the owner in question has others who occasionally drive their truck? What if they have teens, or a significant other who isn't as attentive at switching in and out of 4wd when they're on dry road? In this sort of situation, there's a lot of peace of mind in just clicking it into AWD and letting them drive in safety (and not wrecking your t-case).

As for the locker, I'm new to owning a vehicle with one. All of my Jeeps were open differential or limited slip. I've driven with others who have lockers, and they seem to be damn sweet when off-roading, but the rest of us did just fine. Having said that, I can offer the observation that having a locker (or two) just means you're that much deeper in when you finally get stuck.

Looking for a Runner with both, and is in good shape will be difficult, but ultimately worth it in the end. As others have said though, snagging a solid Runner with AWD/4wd that doesn't have a locker could pay off if you don't mind some wrenching.

Just my $0.02

 

[awpsome]

I have a 00 with both options and i love the AWD, i use it whenever i feel extra traction is wanted, especially heavy rains and going over the mountains with lots of debris and water everywhere.
I can say that while in AWD versus 2wd the traction is awesome. I also have 4wd obviously but the benefits of AWD for those who dont understand is that AWD can be used on high traction roads, but allows slip between the front and rear wheels, unlike 4wd. (center locked)

So although its probably going to be high traction on pavement, when its pouring rain and there is mud, dirt, rocks, oil from other cars everywhere the AWD system is awesome to have. When i hit those slick areas or even street paint you get a slick spot where i can feel the rear jiggle a bit in 2wd but with AWD i have never had a moment of feeling that traction was an issue and that i would need to worry about crashing.

The reason why 4wd cant "always" be used on high traction roads is that there is no slip between the front and rear tires. So even though left to right is unlocked, the front to back is locked meaning both front wheels and rear wheels need to move at the same speed regardless of which left to right side is getting the power (of course as long as the person doesnt have locked differentials). continuing on why 4wd cant "always" be used in high traction areas is that it puts to much stress on the drivetrain when the front and rear wheels arent moving at the same speed. You have to think about it most when you turn, that the front wheels and rear wheels wont be moving at the same speeds as they are taking different paths. Which is why 4wd should not be used on high traction and can result in breaking drivetrain parts.

But yes having AWD feature is a added bonus i havent had in my previous 4runner and i love it. The e-locker is awesome as well when that extra traction is needed or wanted.
Having AWD is having the best of both worlds, its exactly having a standard 4wd 4runner and all its drivetrain features with the added bonus of unlocking the center diff resulting in AWD for anytime on any terrain where extra traction is wanted.
But to be clear, there is ZERO benefits of having AWD versus 4WD offroad because traction offroad is VERY low and allows front and rear tires to slip on their own without the center diff.

 

[awpsome]

about the elocker subject, i agree although it isnt NEEDED as an ARB or other can be put in quite easy, its all about if you want it OEM or not. AWD trasnfer cases will be harder to obtain and put in versus how openly a person can find a locker to put in their differential.

So as a buyer if it comes done to finding one with both, its up to you if you want to wait for that special one. But i found one with the multimode and no elocker but the condition was awesome id just jump on that and expect to spend a $1000 on an ARB locker setup if a locker is really wanted that bad.

 

[snivilous]

So is 4wd.... I still see no point in it. If the pavement is white, 4wd, if the pavement is black 2wd.

I live in Canada....it snows here every once in a while. :nerd:

If you are in 4WD and it's icy out, the 4WD will force your tires to slip more than an AWD system. AWD will be supplying power to all tires as it needs it and redirecting power from tires that are slipping, 4WD will just put power to whatever it wants and if you take a corner the front or back will be forced to slip since there is no center differential.

Additionally, there's often icy or snowy spots under trees and in the shade but perfectly dry ground in a couple hundred feet. Granted you could constantly be switching from 2WD to 4WD to prevent wear on your transfer case, but AWD will do it all for you.

I'm not saying AWD is better than 4WD, but it does have its advantages.

 

[Robb235]

Forgot to mention....

I like putting it in AWD when the roads are wet, because I hate accidently peeling out when I'm at a stop sign or red light that's on an incline.

 

[awdjunkies]

^ All valid points guys... As my screen name suggests, I have owned a lot of awd cars/trucks as I have 4wd.. and as chevetteer, awepsome, snivilous, and Robb235 basically point out, "It's nice to have and not need it, then to need it and not have it."

 

[02SE]

What I said was we were driving on pavement that was covered in snow and ice.

My understanding is that AWD will out perform 4WD in these conditions. Is that wrong? Please chime in with a simple yes or no and why.

Just a comment on AWD vs Full-time 4wd.

At one time Full-time 4wd exclusively referred to a vehicle that had a transfer case with a differential, and a low-range in that transfer case. Whereas a vehicle that could send power to all four wheels, but had no low-range, was referred to as All-wheel Drive.

Wimpy crossover vehicles with no low-range, have AWD. Using that classic definition of AWD, vs Full-time 4wd, 4Runners that have the ability to send power to all four wheels through their differential and low-range equipped T-cases, have a Full-time 4WD option.

I feel better now. :biggrin1:

Anyway, in my experience with vehicles I own, owned or that are owned by relatives whose vehicles I have driven extensively on snow covered roads, I would say it depends.

I had a '95 FZJ80 which was Full-time 4wd, that I ran BFG A/T tires on. I also had my current '97 4Runner which is Part-time 4wd only, and was running the same BFG A/T tires (although slightly different sizes) on it at the time.

I drove the 80 series home from work in a blizzard, and then out of curiosity how the 4Runner would fair in comparison, I drove it over the same roads and conditions to the store.

Same tires, same road conditions, the part-time 4WD with no differentiation in the T-case, felt noticeably more secure, then the full-time 4wd T-case of the 80 series.

I've noticed the same feeling comparing my Part-time 4wd 4Runner, to my Sister's '01 4Runner, which has the option of Full-time 4wd. In really bad road conditions, her 4Runner in Full-time 4wd, feels loose, until you lock the center diff.

Bottom line, Full-time 4wd can feel more secure than 2wd, on wet roads, and you wouldn't want to use Part-time 4wd on roads that are just wet from rain. But if the road is completely snow covered, part-time 4wd can offer better traction than someone running an open-diff T-case in Full-time 4wd.

 

[TheeMikeB]

Get the AWD with the center locker, when you gear throw in an ARB and never look back. ARB is a better locker anyway and more dependable.

 

[paddlenbike]

So is 4wd.... I still see no point in it. If the pavement is white, 4wd, if the pavement is black 2wd.

I live in Canada....it snows here every once in a while. :nerd:

There is one important distinction, Multi-Mode will allow a little variation between front and rear drivetrain, which is safer in the snow. Same you reason you wouldn't drive with the rear locker engaged in the snow, you want differentiation front to back as much as you want it side to side.

Again, I have a permanent transfer case with a locker, I'm just saying Multi-Mode has some benefits too.

 

[YFZsandrider]

Thanks for all the input guys! I probably should have clarified that I fully understand the mechanics of how each transfer case works, but wanted to hear insight on whether the Multi-mode is something worth holding out for.

The more I refine my search preference, I'm thinking that its more important to me to have one in a year, trim, and condition that I can live with. Since I plan on owning for quite a few years and outfitting well for offroad travel, I may as well figure on an aftermarket locker setup... so the factory e-locker becomes less and less of a deal breaker.

Also, since I'm not a big fan of the Limited model side cladding, or their fender flares, Ive seen a couple SR5s that I like. If I remember correctly, the 2001-02 SR5s had the same Multi-mode T-case as the Limited models? Is there any reason to stay away from the '01-'02 variation of Multi-mode with the dash mounted center diff lock button?

Can the larger fender molding that the '01-'02 SR5 and '96-'02 Limited models have, be replaced by the slimmer black pre-'01 SR5 flares like these?

Sorry to be jumping all over the place with my questions, but there's a lot to learn about these. Thanks again!

 

[Coastal616]

None taken. As I said above we were not off-road at all and I'm not comparing off-road.

What I said was we were driving on pavement that was covered in snow and ice.

My understanding is that AWD will out perform 4WD in these conditions. Is that wrong? Please chime in with a simple yes or no and why.

You mentioned that a locker is hardly needed offroad.

I know you said you were driving on ice/snow, that is why I said tires and driver are could be a deciding factor not merely the awd vs 4wd system.

I've owned several real 4x4's and had a subaru legacy for a few winters. The first winter the subaru was on all seasons and was a total POS in the snow, next year I bought nokians and it was a night and day difference. That said, I don't feel it performed any better than any other 4x4 I've had with good tires in the snow.

 

[awdjunkies]

You mentioned that a locker is hardly needed offroad.

I know you said you were driving on ice/snow, that is why I said tires and driver are could be a deciding factor not merely the awd vs 4wd system.

I've owned several real 4x4's and had a subaru legacy for a few winters. The first winter the subaru was on all seasons and was a total POS in the snow, next year I bought nokians and it was a night and day difference. That said, I don't feel it performed any better than any other 4x4 I've had with good tires in the snow.

I could dissect this a little further, but then we'd be swaying away from the OPs thread/questions.

 

[BrianSD_42]

You mentioned that a locker is hardly needed offroad.

Well it is hardly used, at least from a miles driven percentage point of view. At least here in SoCal even those without a locker regularly go on the same trips as trucks with lockers.

Living in San Diego a locker is cool and I have no need for full-time AWD with an option to lock into 4WD. BUT if I lived somewhere where it snowed a lot then yeah I would prioritize that over a "factory" locker.

 

[dapslappy]

99 highlander? or sport, as it is sometimes called?

I have 99 limited automatic with e-locker and multi mode. Owned since April. Driven in Rocky Mt snow and some summer off road trails. Huge fan of the elocker. I am not a hardcore off roader, mine is bone stock, have no experience with or opinion about durability of e locker. I like the multimode because it really does have a mode for any condition. The simple push button AWD is for roads with snow and pavement. Technically one could have this engaged all the time, 24/7, 365. I like the ability to easily lock the center diff (4H) while speeding along at up to 60 mph. Of course we all like 4 Low. I really really like the e-locker. Didn't know about it until I was buying my 4R. Locking the rear diff is a big big deal to me now that I have used it. I recommend the multi mode with the e-locker. It does what its supposed to do in all of its modes and does it easily.
If I were looking for a 4R right now I would look for a 99 Highlander (also called the Sport?) with the multimode and e-locker. Like this (sold): http://www.toyota-4runner.org/sale-vehicles/144693-wts-1999-4runner-highlander-[socal].html. It has everything the limited has, including the 16" wheels, except the leather interior and the steroid cladding. It is a 99 so it has the tallest 3rd gen springs and ground clearance. This one happened to be a one owner vehicle. I prefer a cloth interior and I prefer the subtler cladding.
The multi mode and e-locker make my 4R user friendly and capable in all conditions. They were designed to work together and they do this very well.

 

[Coastal616]

I could dissect this a little further, but then we'd be swaying away from the OPs thread/questions.

Neat, I've been driving in snow every year since I was able to drive, I go snow wheeling, in deep snow, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

Tire choice is more important than any differential options. Period.

Locking diff's in snow are great too. If you ever get stuck in the snow with 1 front tire and 1 rear tire trying to do a snow burnout.....you'll wish you could just push that little e-locker button. :madgrin:

 

[Nunyabiz]

I would say IF you are going to do a lot of serious off roading that put you on very rocky and steep trails then go with an E Locker with a Manual trans.

Other than that, the Multimode, AWD/4WD/ATRAC/VSC system is pretty much superior for damn near everything else.

4WD/E Locker is for All Terrain, steep & rocky and only in 4Lo

AWD is All Weather, rainy, slick roads, snow, ice, especially good in conditions where you are going from dry pavement to wet or icy patches and light snow, it is superior to an E locker or straight 4WD in every single way imaginable.

So for me personally since I only do very light offroading now, the 4Runner is my DD, then the 2002 Sport with Multimode center diff 4WD and AWD with ATRAC is massively better for what I need.
Since I am not going to be crawling up some super steep deep rutted rocky trail then the Center Diff lock 4WD is much better for my needs.

It fully covers every situation that I would normally come across.

 

[SR5Runner97]

I'm from Vancouver Wa and I see them daily man.. Don't just look close. There are a ton of runners in the Vancouver/Portland area, lot of them have e locker too on craigslist.

 

[awdjunkies]

Neat, I've been driving in snow every year since I was able to drive, I go snow wheeling, in deep snow, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.
Neat... I've been driving in deep snow since the 80s as well.. Sir.. :lookout:

Tire choice is more important than any differential options. Period.

So you are saying that a 2wd truck with snow tires is safer/better than a 4wd/awd(multi-mode) truck with A/S tires ?

Locking diff's in snow are great too. If you ever get stuck in the snow with 1 front tire and 1 rear tire trying to do a snow burnout.....you'll wish you could just push that little e-locker button.

I have that little e-locker button too :frisky:
:madgrin:

..................................

 

[snivilous]

Thanks for all the input guys! I probably should have clarified that I fully understand the mechanics of how each transfer case works, but wanted to hear insight on whether the Multi-mode is something worth holding out for.

The more I refine my search preference, I'm thinking that its more important to me to have one in a year, trim, and condition that I can live with. Since I plan on owning for quite a few years and outfitting well for offroad travel, I may as well figure on an aftermarket locker setup... so the factory e-locker becomes less and less of a deal breaker.

Also, since I'm not a big fan of the Limited model side cladding, or their fender flares, Ive seen a couple SR5s that I like. If I remember correctly, the 2001-02 SR5s had the same Multi-mode T-case as the Limited models? Is there any reason to stay away from the '01-'02 variation of Multi-mode with the dash mounted center diff lock button?

Can the larger fender molding that the '01-'02 SR5 and '96-'02 Limited models have, be replaced by the slimmer black pre-'01 SR5 flares like these?

Sorry to be jumping all over the place with my questions, but there's a lot to learn about these. Thanks again!

I have had no issue with my 01 (SR5/Base) multi-mode T-case, and it has been in the AWD/4WD mode for 99.99% of its life.

And I don't see why the fenders couldn't be swapped. Only possible issue is that the fenders bolts on, and depending on the bolt pattern and how big the slimmer fenders are they might not clear the previous bolt pattern (but I think you should be fine).