Is frame rust an issue in Alberta?

[Tony1M]

My wife and I live in Edmonton and are considering purchasing a 5th gen.

I'm aware of Toyota's recall of some early-to-mid 2000 trucks for either frame replacement or outright buying back of the vehicle because of frame rust.

I've searched the forum and noticed that there are at least some owners of previous-generation 4Runners whose vehicles have serious frame rust.

Because I used to live in New England and, again, now live in Alberta, I know that the environment has a great deal to do with the longevity of vehicles. In the sixties and seventies, folks that lived in central Maine were lucky to get 8 years out of a vehicle, but new car cost was only a fraction of what it is today. (For example, in those days my brother purchased a new Bettle for about 18 hundred dollars, and 4 grand was an expensive car.)

OTOH, here in Alberta, vehicles seem to last a very long time. We're still driving our 92 Honda Accord (which my wife bought new in 1991 for $18,000) and it has very little rust anywhere. But the Accord is unibody construction, not body on frame like the 4Runner. Suspension parts I've replaced on the Accord did have had some rust, as well as the car's underbody brake lines, however, so it's not like there is absolutely no corrosion problem in Alberta.

To be brief, we don't want to spend forty grand on a vehicle whose frame isn't going to last at least 15 years. Therefore, I would appreciate it if Alberta owners of 4Runners of all generations would be kind enough to report how much rust has affected their vehicle's frame (or other areas of the body, for that matter).

Thanks.

 

[Intruder]

Wasn't the frame rust issue on some previous gen 4Runners a defect, hence the actual recall? I don't think you're any more likely to get rust here than somewhere with a lot more moisture in the air or where they use a lot more salt on the roads in winter. The mistake a lot of people seem to make is not washing their vehicles as often in the winter when that's probably when you should be washing it - particularly the undercarriage - the most.

 

[Arterisk]

There will be rust, especially since our roads are salted. However, with a good rust protection each year (oil or grease) you should be able to do 15 year with that truck. The frame rusting will issue from my knowledge was resolved long ago.

However, you need to be realist = the frame will still be good but the body will eventually rust at some places. Hell, my 1 year old 4runner already have some rusted parts under and I got it rust proofed. But it's just normal superficial rust that's inevitable, especially if you have a garage.

 

[rjmckay99]

I have not heard of any Albertan's with serious rust issues for a while. It is not like out East where they heavily salt in the winters. I work in road construction/ maintenance, and we use a fraction of the salt that used to be put down. Nowadays it is more sand than pure salt. Intruder is absolutely right that washing plays the biggest role. Toyota has come a long way since those recalls so I wouldn't hold it against them now. Hope that helps, I also live in Edmonton, and so far love the 4runner!

 

[Tony1M]

Thanks for the information, guys.

Yes, Edmonton does not use much salt. That's why our Accord has lasted as long as it has, IMO, and this is without any washing of our vehicle whatsover during the winter. The vehicle is garaged when it's not in use, too. The first 8 years of its life it was not garaged at any time, and, since it has been garaged, it's as if the car has not aged at all, so I'm a firm believer in garages! In the spring the car gets a wash, whether it needs it or not :wink2:, as well as an oil change, and we have never taken any measures whatsoever to rust proof it in the fall for the upcoming winter.

Although I have always done all the maintenance on our Accord, the thought of having to do even more maintenace to a new vehicle is not a pleasant one.

Supposedly Ontario's winter roads are treated heavily with salt and it's understood by many folks in Alberta that buying an older vehicle from there is problematic for that very reason. In fact, unless it was an almost new vehicle, I wouldn't do it.

I was not aware of any frame recall for 4Runners. Anybody have a link to more details about that? For example, what year 4Runners did the recall cover?

I'm now wishing that I had posted this thread in the 4th gen forum rather than here in the 5th. This topic is probably more appropriate for older generations, rather than a generation that's essentially only two years old (although if there were frame rust issues in this generation, that certainly would be significant to me). Would the moderators please move this thread to the 4th gen., if possible? Thanks for that and, again, thanks for the information, guys.

 

[offroadingatc]

Thanks for the information, guys.

Yes, Edmonton does not use much salt. That's why our Accord has lasted as long as it has, IMO, and this is without any washing of our vehicle whatsover during the winter. The vehicle is garaged when it's not in use, too. The first 8 years of its life it was not garaged at any time, and, since it has been garaged, it's as if the car has not aged at all, so I'm a firm believer in garages! In the spring the car gets a wash, whether it needs it or not :wink2:, as well as an oil change, and we have never taken any measures whatsoever to rust proof it in the fall for the upcoming winter.

Although I have always done all the maintenance on our Accord, the thought of having to do even more maintenace to a new vehicle is not a pleasant one.

Supposedly Ontario's winter roads are treated heavily with salt and it's understood by many folks in Alberta that buying an older vehicle from there is problematic for that very reason. In fact, unless it was an almost new vehicle, I wouldn't do it.

I was not aware of any frame recall for 4Runners. Anybody have a link to more details about that? For example, what year 4Runners did the recall cover?

I'm now wishing that I had posted this thread in the 4th gen forum rather than here in the 5th. This topic is probably more appropriate for older generations, rather than a generation that's essentially only two years old (although if there were frame rust issues in this generation, that certainly would be significant to me). Would the moderators please move this thread to the 4th gen., if possible? Thanks for that and, again, thanks for the information, guys.

I believe at maximum saturation salt water freezes at like -20C, but at the saturation you would be getting with road salt its a lot lower than that, hence useless in a lot of places west of Ontario.

 

[Silverado]

This is the main reason that used vehicles list for 12% above the national average; no maritime salt conditions, and little road salt used.

Based on my recent experiences in Edmonton, I don't think the city owns any salt/sand trucks or plows at all? LOL

 

[ironhippy]

out here in the east it's ridiculous. People expect the roads to be BARE, the only way to pull that off is to salt the crap out of the roads.

It's gotta be horrible for the environment, but no one seems to complain except for old Toyota owners

 

[jirehn]

Do you have any information about the 5th gen?

 

[Tony1M]

out here in the east it's ridiculous. People expect the roads to be BARE, the only way to pull that off is to salt the crap out of the roads.

It's gotta be horrible for the environment, but no one seems to complain except for old Toyota owners

"....., but no one seems to complain except for old Toyota owners."

Yes, for me that statement hits the nail right on the head. For example, how many vehicles from other manufacturers have had frame recalls? And even with that recent history staring them right in the face, why isn't Toyota now galvanizing frames and covering them will a coating identical or similar to the coating on the exposed bottom of the body, such as the floor pans, etc.? In this day and age, I cannot believe that Toyota could not truly "rust proof" a frame.

Take a good look at the photos of rusted frames that people have submitted to various forums. You see a rusted-out hulk of a frame, but almost always there's a part of the body that's visible right next to the frame that is literally untouched by rust.

If you don't like long-winded droning on and on by a retired person who's got too much time on his fingers, you should stop reading now.

This is not to say that other Toyota vehicles have had an inordinate share of rust problems. I have a friend who now lives in Red Deer who just a few years ago sold a 1990 Toyota Camry with tonnes of miles on it. Although he always had the scheduled maintenance done to it, he drove that car like a maniac -- flooring it like a teenager at take-off, braking hard when stopping and everything else in between when manuevering. When I was in the vehicle with him, I used to laugh out loud (and he used to laugh out loud right along with me) at the abuse he dished out to that vehicle. But the thng was like the Energizer Bunny. He couldn't kill it, no matter what he did. It just kept going and going. He ended up selling it to the daughter of a friend of his and the only reason it's still not running is that it was "totaled" in an accident that was not her fault... and it doesn't take much damage to "total" a vehicle that's almost 20 years old.

Anyway, Toyota certainly used to, and probably still does, make some tremendous, rust-resistant unibody vehicles. And, after having taken a body-on-frame 2011 Ltd out for a test drive, I really like the 4Runner and everything it can do (that I have never done in a vehicle), but the frame rust issue, if there even is one in Alberta, scares the he!! out of me. In this household we don't go through vehicles like underwear. I fully expect the next new vehicle to last what most folks would probably consider a very long time.

I know that additional maintenance will be required on the 4R simply because of the 4R's added mechanical systems over a 2WD vehicle, but that doesn't scare me at all.
92 Accord 4 dr LX 4AT Timing belt job - Honda Accord Forum - Honda Accord Enthusiast Forums

But I am not willing to put up with special "environmental" maintenance that I know from living in Maine will not affect an inevitable outcome. If it really is necessary to oil or grease a frame every year and then wash it all off in a car wash every time it snows, I don't want it, whatever it is.

Our neighbor has an '11 Honda Pilot. My wife and I drove he and his wife to the airport in it. It handles very nicely on the highway, gets reasonable mileage, it's a Honda (but built in the states), and has no frame, per se, but I'm cramped in the thing and, IMHO, it just doesn't have the pizazz, excitement, or capabilities of the 4R -- capabilites I'd like to explore here in Alberta.

When it comes to vehicles, over my 46 years of driving experience and vehicle ownership, I've learned some hard lessons about vehicles. For example, I used to get excited about Mercedes S-class vehicles, but after having owned a money-pit 1988 560SEL (that used to go so fast that I still don't believe it), I wouldn't touch another Merc with a ten-foot pole. So that drab Pilot may very well be the more "appropriate" vehicle to own for the streets of a city that has 6 or 7 months of winter ..................... but I still like the 4Runner much better and that's why I started this thread to nail down if frame rust is a significant issue in Alberta, or just something folks in Ontario, Quebec or the Maritimes have to worry about.

Thanks for the opportunity.

 

[1engineer]

I have read your posts. Why are you limiting your geographic area to Canada? Do you think Canada is special when it comes to weather and road treatment? I live in an area in the states that uses a tremendous amount of salt and, as most other modern vehicles both BOF and unibody, show only surface rust on the drivetrain and frame or unibody. Yes, Toyota had a problem several years ago with specific models and years with rust. It was attributed to both a material and manufacturing process issue. They fixed it. The tepid response to your thread should tell you something as many of the 5th gen owners come from 4th and 3rd gen 4Runners. Rust is not a widespread problem with 4Runners. Sure, there is small amounts of rust on the drivetrain of my vehicle. After two winters, rocks hitting it and everything else you will expect scratches and gouges. No worries though. You want a rust "proof" vehicle? Good luck. Anytime steel, even coated, gets abraded or scratched it will rust, and the underneath of a vehicle gets abraded and scratched. The key is keeping that rust on the surface and Toyota, like most other major OEMs, specs the steel and coats it accordingly to allow many years of service without rust becoming a major factor. In the 60's and 70's, vehicles were made to rust as specific metallurgy and coatings were not around then. Sure, if you got a vehicle from down south it would be mostly rust free but here in the snow belt they rusted out quickly. Maybe it is a detriment you don't buy a new vehicle very often because if you did you would realize that for the past 25 years, excluding a few specific models as stated above, vehicles do not rust to the point of body panel replacement or unsafe frames. Good luck in your search of a rust proof vehicle. BTW I was around in the 60's and 70's and I drove (and fixed) those POS rust buckets. One more thing: Did you know the 5th Gen 4Runner can go 10K miles before an oil change? Modern vehicles are amazing.

 

[scanny]

After past two winters I haven't seen any unusual rust on frame, I don't have any rust-proofing and I wash my truck maybe once in the winter. I guess I could say for sure that frame is good in 2020, so far I just hope that it's going to be fine : )

 

[rjmcmillan]

I've got a 2010 with 40K KM's on it now on my 2nd winter with no apparent frame rust...my tail pipe is getting a bit rusty though......

I had a 2005 Tacoma before the 4Runner and it had very obvious frame rust. I think thats where the Toyota reports were coming from.

 

[Tony1M]

................ You want a rust "proof" vehicle? Good luck. Anytime steel, even coated, gets abraded or scratched it will rust, and the underneath of a vehicle gets abraded and scratched. The key is keeping that rust on the surface and Toyota, like most other major OEMs, specs the steel and coats it accordingly to allow many years of service without rust becoming a major factor.

............................One more thing: Did you know the 5th Gen 4Runner can go 10K miles before an oil change? Modern vehicles are amazing.

I want Toyota to put on their frames whatever it is that is on the grey bottom part of the vehicle that sits above the rusted-out frame on this link's photo of a 2000 4Runner:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/70989-serious-frame-rust-questoin-7.html#post941794
And if road-debris is "sand-blasting" away the outer protective coating on the frame and exposing it to corrosive "chemicals", such as salt, whatever that miraculous plastic material is that is used inside wheel wells should be put over, or installed to shield, that protective coating on whatever parts of the frame are exposed to that flying debris. This should be bone simiple. If wheel wells can be protected, so can/should the vulnerable areas of the frame. Period.

As far as the increased-interval oil changes go, I'm not sure that that would be attributed to advanced engine technology or advanced oil technology. Maybe it's neither. Maybe cash-strapped Toyota wants to shorten the lifespan of their vehicles. Assuming it's not the latter, after reading what I've read on this site about owners' adventures in changing the 5th gen's oil and filter, I'm glad it's only every 10,000 miles. That's going to be an oil change about every three years for us in our retirement years. (Don't tell me there's a maximum time interval, too, because I'll just ignore it.)

Dear fellow Albertans and you others from rust-belt areas, thanks very much for the input. So far, all of it makes me think that I'm being a bit too paranoid when it comes to the 4Runner's frame. In fact, I think my wife and I will be test-driving a '10 SR5 (with leather) this afternoon. It's got about 40,000 km on it, so I'll give the frame as good a look as I can without raising the vehicle.

 

[1engineer]

So far, all of it makes me think that I'm being a bit too paranoid when it comes to the 4Runner's frame. In fact, I think my wife and I will be test-driving a '10 SR5 (with leather) this afternoon. It's got about 40,000 km on it, so I'll give the frame as good a look as I can without raising the vehicle.

Yes you are. Just get one and be happy with it! Good luck and hope you get a good deal!