Jaw-dropping repair estimates

[Toystory2]

I mean this with absolutely 0 offense to any one who doesnt have the means to do their own work, but holy hell... seeing stuff like this makes me so glad I've been fortunate enough ( or not? lol) to be able to tackle just about any mechanical project needed on any of the cars.. There is absolutely no way in hell I would be able to have any of my vehicles at the stage they are now if I had to pay even half of those labor prices..

I also have absolutely 0 trust in anything any shop tells me is a necessary repair (this one is from a multitude of absolutely terrible experiences over the course of my car ownership). There are literally a handful of people I can count on one hand that I would blindly trust the recommendation on what needs to be done on my cars.

I don’t have much choice but to learn how to do it myself or just keep driving it as is. Or at least get some second opinions and find a more reasonable rate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[riverwolf]

{snippage}

my apologies for correcting people when they call them struts, i have this crazy affliction where i like to provide accurate info in an attempt to help others... & i appreciate it when others help or correct me when im wrong. eace:

I think you, like myself on occasion, like to tilt at windmills. My day job makes me cringe every time someone mentions their home "router". Of course, it would probably be asking too much to get manufactures to label a device as a Home modem-router-switch-WAP-gateway-firewall to distinguish it from discrete modems, routers, switches, WAPs, firewalls, etc.

IMO, the damper/spring/mount assembly's industry naming convention is analogous to the distinctions between AWD, on-demand AWD, 4WD, and full-time 4WD. Most non-enthusiasts and even some enthusiasts don't understand the nuances of the labelling, they all route engine power to all four wheels in the most basic sense of the term "four wheel drive".

In the case of suspensions, my take on what appears to be the generally accepted terminology of damper assemblies:

Shock := a damper with two fixed mounting points, such as the 4Runner's rear dampers. Vehicle suspension is separate, typically via coil or leaf springs.

Strut := an assembly with a damper inside of a coil spring that mounts to the vehicle via a fixed bottom mount and a rotating bearing top mount. The basic hardware making up a strut assembly is the same whether used in a MacPherson strut suspension or double wishbone application.

Coil-over := a strut assembly where the damper body is threaded to allow for adjustable spring perch heights. The threaded body allowing continuously variable adjustment being the distinguishing characteristic from something like Bilstein 5100 strut assemblies with their multiple fixed perch heights.

Cheers.:cheers:

 

[firebirdguy]

I think you, like myself on occasion, like to tilt at windmills. My day job makes me cringe every time someone mentions their home "router". Of course, it would probably be asking too much to get manufactures to label a device as a Home modem-router-switch-WAP-gateway-firewall to distinguish it from discrete modems, routers, switches, WAPs, firewalls, etc.

IMO, the damper/spring/mount assembly's industry naming convention is analogous to the distinctions between AWD, on-demand AWD, 4WD, and full-time 4WD. Most non-enthusiasts and even some enthusiasts don't understand the nuances of the labelling, they all route engine power to all four wheels in the most basic sense of the term "four wheel drive".

In the case of suspensions, my take on what appears to be the generally accepted terminology of damper assemblies:

Shock := a damper with two fixed mounting points, such as the 4Runner's rear dampers. Vehicle suspension is separate, typically via coil or leaf springs.

Strut := an assembly with a damper inside of a coil spring that mounts to the vehicle via a fixed bottom mount and a rotating bearing top mount. The basic hardware making up a strut assembly is the same whether used in a MacPherson strut suspension or double wishbone application.

Coil-over := a strut assembly where the damper body is threaded to allow for adjustable spring perch heights. The threaded body allowing continuously variable adjustment being the distinguishing characteristic from something like Bilstein 5100 strut assemblies with their multiple fixed perch heights.

Cheers.:cheers:

tilt at windmills?? thats a new one for me but according to the definition i found it means "to attack an enemy or problem that is not real"... sorry but when i point out 4runners dont have struts, thats definitely a real thing & theres no attacking intended, just trying to provide accurate info. my apologies if thats how you interpret it.

i do agree that terminology can be rather vague sometimes on many things.

the definitions you listed are pretty good expect the big part that a mcpherson strut almost always incorporates the steering or rotating aspect of the suspension & a coil over shock does not.

also, factory coil overs dont have a threaded area to adjust height, thats a feature only on off road or racing type coil overs to adjust height &/or spring rate, its still a coil over without that feature.

yes, pointing out 4runners dont have struts may be a nit pick or tilting at windmills, but its a fact these are not struts by the true definition.

eace:

 

[Toystory2]

I think you, like myself on occasion, like to tilt at windmills. My day job makes me cringe every time someone mentions their home "router". Of course, it would probably be asking too much to get manufactures to label a device as a Home modem-router-switch-WAP-gateway-firewall to distinguish it from discrete modems, routers, switches, WAPs, firewalls, etc.

IMO, the damper/spring/mount assembly's industry naming convention is analogous to the distinctions between AWD, on-demand AWD, 4WD, and full-time 4WD. Most non-enthusiasts and even some enthusiasts don't understand the nuances of the labelling, they all route engine power to all four wheels in the most basic sense of the term "four wheel drive".

In the case of suspensions, my take on what appears to be the generally accepted terminology of damper assemblies:

Shock := a damper with two fixed mounting points, such as the 4Runner's rear dampers. Vehicle suspension is separate, typically via coil or leaf springs.

Strut := an assembly with a damper inside of a coil spring that mounts to the vehicle via a fixed bottom mount and a rotating bearing top mount. The basic hardware making up a strut assembly is the same whether used in a MacPherson strut suspension or double wishbone application.

Coil-over := a strut assembly where the damper body is threaded to allow for adjustable spring perch heights. The threaded body allowing continuously variable adjustment being the distinguishing characteristic from something like Bilstein 5100 strut assemblies with their multiple fixed perch heights.

Cheers.:cheers:

I’m guessing you work in IT : )

I am a network admin myself, so I know how you feel!

Also thanks for sorting out the diffs between shocks and struts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Toystory2]

tilt at windmills?? thats a new one for me but according to the definition i found it means "to attack an enemy or problem that is not real"... sorry but when i point out 4runners dont have struts, thats definitely a real thing & theres no attacking intended, just trying to provide accurate info. my apologies if thats how you interpret it.

i do agree that terminology can be rather vague sometimes on many things.

the definitions you listed are pretty good expect the big part that a mcpherson strut almost always incorporates the steering or rotating aspect of the suspension & a coil over shock does not.

also, factory coil overs dont have a threaded area to adjust height, thats a feature only on off road or racing type coil overs to adjust height &/or spring rate, its still a coil over without that feature.

yes, pointing out 4runners dont have struts may be a nit pick or tilting at windmills, but its a fact these are not struts by the true definition.

eace:

So I need to be looking for shocks and not struts for my 4th gen correct?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[firebirdguy]

So I need to be looking for shocks and not struts for my 4th gen correct?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

correct. however keep in mind many companies will call them "strut plus' or "quick struts" as generic terms or for advertising purposes. regardless of what they are called, if you look for your year & vehicle & choose correct 2WD or 4WD, you will get the right part.

here are the part #'s for KYB 4WD. fronts included the shock, coil springs & top hat pre assembled & are direct bolt in.

front- SR4130 & SR4131 ~$100ea. rear- 344410 ~$40ea at rock auto.

 

[riverwolf]

So I need to be looking for shocks and not struts for my 4th gen correct?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Depends...

At the risk of upsetting Firebirdguy, if you want to reuse your existing springs, per manufacturing convention and Merriam-Webster, you're looking for "struts" on the front and "shocks" on the rear. RockAuto is a good place to see a number of options in one place. Tirerack usually has multiple options, too. Amazon, believe it or not, is not a bad place to check, either.

If you want to replace your factory springs as well as the dampers, you can get complete strut assemblies for the front, with separate shocks and springs for the rear. You can also mix-n-match your choice of springs and dampers to tune the front struts to your tastes, if you prefer.

If your budget allows and you're considering upgrades, there's a sticky thread at the top of this forum with many of the aftermarket suspension combos that folks have used.

In the the might-as-well category, you're going to want new strut/shock mounts as long as you're at it. Just the way it goes. Some strut assemblies may include them, IDK.

Personally, I'm running Bilstein 5100s (adjustable perch height struts) front and rear. Even though I could have reused my factory springs, I paired the Bilsteins with Moog FJ springs front/rear. Per the stickied thread, the higher spring rate and length of the FJs will give us a slight lift. I can't remember if I went with the lowest (0" lift setting) or 2nd lowest lift notch on the 5100s...I wasn't trying for a significant amount of lift or even trying to level the factory rake, just restoring and possibly improving performance a little. I would say the ride is definitely firmer than stock...may not be to everyone's taste.

 

[meltdowner]

i keep saying it because its true. the definition of a strut vs a shock clearly describes the difference, struts are part of the steering axis & dont have an upper control arm. shocks/coil over shocks dont have any rotating points related to steering & have upper & lower arms. but here is a pic to show it better.

regardless of what aftermarket companies or some mechanics call them, 4runners do not have struts, they have coil over shocks in the front with upper & lower ball joints in the 2 control arms & do not rotate.

hope that enlightens you

These are the kind of arguments that I bring up over Thanksgiving dinner with my old stubborn dad and we argue for hours about it. It's great!

 

[firebirdguy]

Depends...

At the risk of upsetting Firebirdguy, if you want to reuse your existing springs, per manufacturing convention and Merriam-Webster, you're looking for "struts" on the front and "shocks" on the rear. RockAuto is a good place to see a number of options in one place. Tirerack usually has multiple options, too. Amazon, believe it or not, is not a bad place to check, either.

If you want to replace your factory springs as well as the dampers, you can get complete strut assemblies for the front, with separate shocks and springs for the rear. You can also mix-n-match your choice of springs and dampers to tune the front struts to your tastes, if you prefer.

If your budget allows and you're considering upgrades, there's a sticky thread at the top of this forum with many of the aftermarket suspension combos that folks have used.

In the the might-as-well category, you're going to want new strut/shock mounts as long as you're at it. Just the way it goes. Some strut assemblies may include them, IDK.

Personally, I'm running Bilstein 5100s (adjustable perch height struts) front and rear. Even though I could have reused my factory springs, I paired the Bilsteins with Moog FJ springs front/rear. Per the stickied thread, the higher spring rate and length of the FJs will give us a slight lift. I can't remember if I went with the lowest (0" lift setting) or 2nd lowest lift notch on the 5100s...I wasn't trying for a significant amount of lift or even trying to level the factory rake, just restoring and possibly improving performance a little. I would say the ride is definitely firmer than stock...may not be to everyone's taste.

LOL. not upset at all, i just prefer to call them the correct name for what they are... coil over shocks. toyota calls them shocks too in their service manuals, not struts. a modern mcpherson strut incorporates the steering rotation in the assembly, a shock/coil over shock does not.

 

[montijo505]

These are the kind of arguments that I bring up over Thanksgiving dinner with my old stubborn dad and we argue for hours about it. It's great!

Because you’re wrong son, I worked on cars for fifteen years before you were even born, I think I know what a part is called- your dad, probably


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Piggity]

please enlighten me (us) where toyota calls 4th gen 4runner front shocks, struts??

when buying new shocks from toyota they are called shocks. & in the repair manual they are called shocks, no mention of these being called struts on 4runners.

not sure why people are so confused on the proper terminology of shocks vs struts... probably comes from aftermarket companies & mechanics using generic terms, but if you hold a shock or coil over shock in one hand & a strut in the other its very obvious how/why they are different.

my apologies for correcting people when they call them struts, i have this crazy affliction where i like to provide accurate info in an attempt to help others... & i appreciate it when others help or correct me when im wrong. eace:

Where can I find rims for my truk? The current wheels don't cut it.:banplease:

 

[firebirdguy]

where can i find rims for my truk? The current wheels don't cut it.:banplease:

lol!

 

[Toystory2]

Better pics of CA’s

Here’s some better pics of the control arms. Looks like the bushings are beyond toast. Anyone think I can save the arms and just replace the bushings?

 

[firebirdguy]

ouch, yes those bushings are toast. you can probably remove the arm & replace the bushings but i think they sell a loaded arm with new bushings & ball joints for a very decent price. probably easier to replace the whole arm & save a lot of work.

 

[Toystory2]

ouch, yes those bushings are toast. you can probably remove the arm & replace the bushings but i think they sell a loaded arm with new bushings & ball joints for a very decent price. probably easier to replace the whole arm & save a lot of work.

Was thinking the same thing. If I’m gonna go to all that trouble, might as well just replace the whole thing. Will probably do the shocks at the same time. This will be a big job, but I’m ready to tackle it and save about $3,000.

 

[montijo505]

Here’s some better pics of the control arms. Looks like the bushings are beyond toast. Anyone think I can save the arms and just replace the bushings?

Those LCA bushings remind me of [MENTION=429038]y=mx+b[/MENTION] lol, be prepared to sawzall the cam bolts off. He has an excellent write up. Just click his name and look through his history. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[y=mx+b]

Here’s some better pics of the control arms. Looks like the bushings are beyond toast. Anyone think I can save the arms and just replace the bushings?

Like [MENTION=109843]montijo505[/MENTION] said, I've got a writeup on replacing mine here: Whiteline Lower Control Arm Bushing Tutorial (120+ Pictures)

I did it all with hand tools sitting on my butt in the driveway. An impact makes the ball joint press stuff much easier

 

[Toystory2]

Like [MENTION=109843]montijo505[/MENTION] said, I've got a writeup on replacing mine here: Whiteline Lower Control Arm Bushing Tutorial (120+ Pictures)

I did it all with hand tools sitting on my butt in the driveway. An impact makes the ball joint press stuff much easier

After watching some videos and reading some write ups, I think I can do this. Can’t you buy arms with ball joints that just bolt on? Maybe I am not understanding what press means.

 

[Toystory2]

Those LCA bushings remind me of [MENTION=429038]y=mx+b[/MENTION] lol, be prepared to sawzall the cam bolts off. He has an excellent write up. Just click his name and look through his history. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you! [MENTION=429038]y=mx+b[/MENTION] and all you guys have been super helpful. Yea l am prepared to get a sawzall with the carbide blades. I am so hoping that a few days of Blaster will help me avoid this!

 

[montijo505]

Thank you! [MENTION=429038]y=mx+b[/MENTION] and all you guys have been super helpful. Yea l am prepared to get a sawzall with the carbide blades. I am so hoping that a few days of Blaster will help me avoid this!

And to answer your question, yes you can get completely assembled arms that you just install.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk