Jeep went diesel, Toyota next?!

[BlackWorksInc]

Jeep Wranglers are good off-road vehicles, they're about the only factory SFA small SUV you can buy these days that also comes body on frame. They have problems just like any Jeep, why? Lets look at who owns, runs, and maintains Jeep. CHRYSLER CORP.

So yeah, there's your problem right there! I and my co-worker run the used car service dept at our dealership. We see Dozens of used cars we have to go through, inspect, repair, reject, ect ect. The ones that have the most problems? European Cars > Domestic > Asian in that order, Mercedes Benz backed out of their coalition with Chrysler a while back because Chrysler was somehow managing to use Mercedes technology and make it worse. The JGC is structrually similar in many ways to the ML class, the majority of components have MB stamped on them for christ's sake.

We all know Chrysler was such a wonderfully reliable company that didn't blame customers for their factory defects and had poor customer service or warranty care. I mean they were such a great company that the government had to bail them out and now they are owned by FIAT! Only good Chrysler was the OLD Dodge Challenger (Nothing against the new ones, but they're modern Chryslers which makes me shudder at the issues they will have. Just had an '08 PT Cruiser with 25k junk a camshaft position sensor... that's quality right there...)

 

[DannyLlama]

First of all, SORRY OP for the mini hijack!

Second of all, Mommy likes piggies and the girls made the Piggy Stone for Mommy.:flypig::flypig::flypig:

No worries at all.. Always enjoy a good laugh :bounce:

 

[DannyLlama]

Mercedes Benz backed out of their coalition with Chrysler a while back because Chrysler was somehow managing to use Mercedes technology and make it worse.

lol, Really? I didn't realize they split up ways.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Yup, back in '07 it looks, some interesting reading:

Daimler AG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mercedes-Benz Admits to Chrysler Merger Mistake

I love that last article's title "MB Admits to Chrysler Merger MISTAKE" LMAO

A little excerpt from the wiki article that if true I was not aware of:

"In the middle of the past decade, the merger began to take a turn for the worse. Due to Daimler's reluctance to allow Chrysler to continue development and use quality materials[dubious – discuss], Chrysler vehicles suffered lower fit and finish quality as well as sub-standard parts being supplied and used in spite of concerns[citation needed]. Although the resulting vehicles produced were still adequate, they were generally not on par with the competition."

I also laughed at the next couple paragraphs down where MB offered to sell ChryCorp to other manufactuers and a handful didn't even want to touch them.\

"DaimlerChrysler had reportedly approached other carmakers and investment groups to sell Chrysler in early 2007. General Motors was reported to be a suitor while Volkswagen, the Renault-Nissan auto alliance, and Hyundai Motor Company had said that they weren't interested in buying the company."

You know they were in deep *** when VW rejected them, during that time VW was (and I believe still is) scooping up companies to add to their growing VW/Audi Motor Group empire.

 

[Quentin]

Where can you route the stacks in the JGC?

 

[TxCJ3Pilot]

Diesel? My 2011 T4R already sounds like a diesel . . .

 

[M1911]

I certainly have concerns about the reliability of the Jeep Grand Cherokee. That said, 28 mpg highway is pretty darn impressive and the 4Runner's 21 mpg isn't.

 

[1engineer]

I certainly have concerns about the reliability of the Jeep Grand Cherokee. That said, 28 mpg highway is pretty darn impressive and the 4Runner's 21 mpg isn't.

Hmmm let's see: good gas milage but terrible reliability and durability or so so gas milage and excellent reliability and durability. The choice is made to the tune of 200K JGC and 4Runners last year. You decide.

 

[Batang.Gapo]

Seriously? When did you last drive a diesel?

Neither of the things you say is true for diesel engines today.

I second that.

 

[JohnsD90]

I've driven lots, none were mine. I'd heard the VW was fairly quiet until I was next to one at a stoplight. Noisy and smoky. Maybe it just needed a checkup.

My noisy and smoky volkswagen has averaged as high as 56mpg for 600 miles tand over it's 296k mile lifetime the per ank average has probably been 47mpg of all the time I has calculated, and I can blow the turbo gas model equivalent away.

The 2011 my sister has is quiet and does not smoke, and I have never seen any 09 jetta/golf or newer smoke or be louder than a gas car.

 

[M1911]

Hmmm let's see: good gas milage but terrible reliability and durability or so so gas milage and excellent reliability and durability. The choice is made to the tune of 200K JGC and 4Runners last year. You decide.

I'll be hanging on to my '03 for a while. If Toyota improves the 4Runner mileage to that range, I'll be at the bank checking out loans. If Grand Cherokee reliability improves, I will taking a long hard look.

But if Toyota leaves 4Runner mileage as it is, I'll have a hard time buying a new 4Runner.

 

[Rubberdown]

I don't care about the diesel 4runner. I want to buy a diesel tundra.... My mileage is absolute crap in my tundra.

 

[atipps]

A diesel 4runner would honestly be my dream!!

 

[M1911]

A diesel 4runner would honestly be my dream!!

Mine too.

 

[sandcrawler]

Same here, but as has been said the U.S. is apparently behind the curve on the fuel technology so we could see finer examples in Europe. I've also yet to listen to one idling at a light or accelerating away from same that didn't sound like it needed some serious valve adjustments. But it's the nature of the beast. I think people see a certain "cool" factor in owning/ driving diesels. Like the guy in the hot car with the loud pipes roaring down the road. There's a certain " look at me" factor. Having worked in a blue collar field for over 40 years I've had many a co-worker who had to have the biggest loudest diesel around.( diesels seem to be a blue collar thing)
That said, times have changed a bit and we've matured(some of us). Live and let live and all that stuff. But, there's nothing quite like being out alone in the woods doing a little wheeling to a fav spot when a loud diesel truck comes along and just rips thru any tranquility that was there. Gotta love em. Ever have one start up outside your window even up to 100 feet away on a cold morning? SWEET? NOT!

the BMW 335D in my garage is an entirely different animal, i assure you. you'd have a hard time even knowing it's a diesel—unless, of course, your foot is on the accelerator.

 

[Balcs1]

420 lb-ft or torque though

Reliability and jeep are two words that don't go together like they used to, shame really. I guess diesels are good for pulling, but otherwise I don't see the point. As we all remember back in the day the fuel was cheaper, but not any more. Diesels are noisy and smelly. If Toyota starts using them over here I'd take a pass on getting one.

You cannot look past the 420 lb-ft or torque! A Deisel is all about the torque and gas milage. My 4x4 Cummins puts out 600 ft lbs of Torque and everything else is weak in comparison.:amen:

 

[ATL4R]

My noisy and smoky volkswagen has averaged as high as 56mpg for 600 miles tand over it's 296k mile lifetime the per ank average has probably been 47mpg of all the time I has calculated, and I can blow the turbo gas model equivalent away.

The 2011 my sister has is quiet and does not smoke, and I have never seen any 09 jetta/golf or newer smoke or be louder than a gas car.

You will not see a (legal) 2008+ diesel smoke. Crazy emissions regulations went into affect for all diesels built 2007+. To meet these regulations, manufacturers have FILTERS on the exhausts. These filters become clogged after a certain amount of time (couple hundred miles on trucks VS a thousand miles on a little car) and then require a "regeneration." To regenerate, many manufacturers program the computer/injector to inject gas into the combustion chamber on the exhaust stroke to generate lots of heat. I believe a temperature around 1100 degrees is needed inside the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) for around 10-15 minutes to "regenerate." This wastes fuel in my opinion. Post 2010 regulations got even stricter, and now many diesels use an "exhaust fluid" which assists reducing particulates and in turn reducing the # of "regenerations" needed to the DPF.

I'm personally not a fan of any 2008+ diesel vehicle. The fuel rails operate at ridiculously high (25,000-30,000 psi) pressures and cost upward of $7000+ (See VW TDI board) to repair.

Also, during this "regeneration" process, some of that excess fuel leaks past the rings and builds in the oil. With my 2008 F250 Super Duty, you'd drain more oil than you put in after 5000 miles. NOT GOOD! This is a fact. When I bought the truck new in 2008, it had a 10,000 mile drain interval. Around 2009, Ford sent out a bulletin to all 2008+ Diesel Super Duty owners stating you must now change the oil every 5000 miles to maintain the warranty, due to excess fuel contaminating the oil!!

Sulfur has been practically entirely removed from Diesel Fuel. Sulfur is a lubricant and is believed to be one of the main reasons the older diesel engines refused to die.

On a positive note -- the new diesels drive AWESOME, are NOT noisy, and start in the cold with no issues. I'd consider leasing one, but not buying another one because of the insanely high repair bills if something goes wrong.

I also have a 2003 TDI Jetta... not the prettiest thing, but it gets 50+ MPG without trying. Unfortunately, I like the T4R so much, the Jetta just sits in my driveway most of the time.

 

[1engineer]

You will not see a (legal) 2008+ diesel smoke. Crazy emissions regulations went into affect for all diesels built 2007+. To meet these regulations, manufacturers have FILTERS on the exhausts. These filters become clogged after a certain amount of time (couple hundred miles on trucks VS a thousand miles on a little car) and then require a "regeneration." To regenerate, many manufacturers program the computer/injector to inject gas into the combustion chamber on the exhaust stroke to generate lots of heat. I believe a temperature around 1100 degrees is needed inside the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) for around 10-15 minutes to "regenerate." This wastes fuel in my opinion. Post 2010 regulations got even stricter, and now many diesels use an "exhaust fluid" which assists reducing particulates and in turn reducing the # of "regenerations" needed to the DPF.

I'm personally not a fan of any 2008+ diesel vehicle. The fuel rails operate at ridiculously high (25,000-30,000 psi) pressures and cost upward of $7000+ (See VW TDI board) to repair.

Also, during this "regeneration" process, some of that excess fuel leaks past the rings and builds in the oil. With my 2008 F250 Super Duty, you'd drain more oil than you put in after 5000 miles. NOT GOOD! This is a fact. When I bought the truck new in 2008, it had a 10,000 mile drain interval. Around 2009, Ford sent out a bulletin to all 2008+ Diesel Super Duty owners stating you must now change the oil every 5000 miles to maintain the warranty, due to excess fuel contaminating the oil!!

Sulfur has been practically entirely removed from Diesel Fuel. Sulfur is a lubricant and is believed to be one of the main reasons the older diesel engines refused to die.

On a positive note -- the new diesels drive AWESOME, are NOT noisy, and start in the cold with no issues. I'd consider leasing one, but not buying another one because of the insanely high repair bills if something goes wrong.

I also have a 2003 TDI Jetta... not the prettiest thing, but it gets 50+ MPG without trying. Unfortunately, I like the T4R so much, the Jetta just sits in my driveway most of the time.

If you think the regulations are bad now wait until Tier IV regulations take effect.

 

[DannyLlama]

If you think the regulations are bad now wait until Tier IV regulations take effect.

Elaborate

Or

Link me :keyboard:

 

[Thai]

You will not see a (legal) 2008+ diesel smoke. Crazy emissions regulations went into affect for all diesels built 2007+. To meet these regulations, manufacturers have FILTERS on the exhausts. These filters become clogged after a certain amount of time (couple hundred miles on trucks VS a thousand miles on a little car) and then require a "regeneration." To regenerate, many manufacturers program the computer/injector to inject gas into the combustion chamber on the exhaust stroke to generate lots of heat. I believe a temperature around 1100 degrees is needed inside the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) for around 10-15 minutes to "regenerate." This wastes fuel in my opinion. Post 2010 regulations got even stricter, and now many diesels use an "exhaust fluid" which assists reducing particulates and in turn reducing the # of "regenerations" needed to the DPF.

I'm personally not a fan of any 2008+ diesel vehicle. The fuel rails operate at ridiculously high (25,000-30,000 psi) pressures and cost upward of $7000+ (See VW TDI board) to repair.

Also, during this "regeneration" process, some of that excess fuel leaks past the rings and builds in the oil. With my 2008 F250 Super Duty, you'd drain more oil than you put in after 5000 miles. NOT GOOD! This is a fact. When I bought the truck new in 2008, it had a 10,000 mile drain interval. Around 2009, Ford sent out a bulletin to all 2008+ Diesel Super Duty owners stating you must now change the oil every 5000 miles to maintain the warranty, due to excess fuel contaminating the oil!!

Sulfur has been practically entirely removed from Diesel Fuel. Sulfur is a lubricant and is believed to be one of the main reasons the older diesel engines refused to die.

On a positive note -- the new diesels drive AWESOME, are NOT noisy, and start in the cold with no issues. I'd consider leasing one, but not buying another one because of the insanely high repair bills if something goes wrong.

Thanks...very informative!