I attended the Sema convention two years in a row and spoke to everybody who would listen and nobody had an answer for the electronics. I spoke to the owner of all pro off-road who did a straight axle on his own FJ cruiser and he could not make the electronics work, I spoke to the owner of Dyna trac he has no solution for the electronics , I spoke to Currie enterprises they have no answer for the electronics. Any straight axle FJ cruiser or modern Toyota Tacoma that you've seen done with a straight axle does not have working electronics they are using for off-road only. Again I posted an FJ cruiser forums Tacoma forms and in this forum and nobody has had a workable solution. Somebody will always chim in and say it's easy and it can't be that hard or my friends uncles cousins brothers gardener did it but when it comes down to it it's all talk and no answer. Unhooking the bulbs in the dash or putting electric tape over them is not a solution.
KDSS delete
- Thread starter shufly09
- Start date
I like your thinking here, this was my idea as well read the signal as it is now then maybe take a common jeep signal which are very plentiful in the front axle and convert that signal so that the Toyota would except it. I think that's probably what the solution will ultimately be.
Jetboy
New member
My experience is that most of the folks doing custom axles aren't super well versed in physics or EE. They're fabricators first. I'm certain it *can* be done. Just not sure how without spending a few hours with all the parts. Obviously a machined adapter to use the oem outer assembly bypasses any electronic wizardry by just using the original stuff, but beyond that, it's going to take some additional information that might not be available without some testing.
wfo9
New member
Two quick opinions on the subject, since this subject has very much been on my mind....
1- I think SAS is doable for sure. It would however be a PITA to get the electronic glitches worked out. There is a way to do it, it just needs to be a bunch of custom machining...and you may have to give up a few things. There are a few shops that I know of that have done FJ SAS around me (think they were 120 FJs but not sure). I would start with them. The first one is West Texas Offfroad in San Angelo TX. The owner has an FJ wth 1 tons under it. I chatted with him about it and I think he claimed he retained all the original electronics (but I could be wrong). If you call there you will probably get Mark who is the manager and a real nice guy. They do a lot of hydro steering work... and sell their own ram kit known as the redneck ram. Great.. good ol honest west Texas guys. One of them worked for Toyota, and I remember them saying that they had to use their contacts to get things worked out with the electronics. I would totally trust them. There is also a shop in Dallas called Beartrax that has dones at least one FJ (don't know much about them). Finally, there is a guy in CA that does a bunch of Toyota SAS and has a SASd FJ. Contact Us ? CALIFAB He seems to do great work and could most likely pull it off (although may need to lose some electronics)
2- Is it worth it. I'm not sure it is. Even if you SAS... The body on the 5th gen is still fighting you. To get it nice and low and run big tires 37+ (which you would totally want to do if you were SAS).. You would have to cut up the body... at this point you have to ask yourself why did I not just buy a JK which is plug and play....This is what led me to keep the 5th gen IFS and just do LT. It won't be as capable as SAS by any stretch, but it sort of matches the limits of the body and is more in line with what the truck is good at.. You will be able to scare the crap out of yourself and do any reasonable trail and it's all simple bolt on stuff that won't really sacrifice road manners. If you still want more... then think about SAS or a different truck. Anyway, that is my logic at this point.
OP...In the meantime, there is a lot of small stuff you can do to your truck that will make a huge difference in what it can do. 35s, front locker. These make a significant difference. Maybe you already have some of this (we would know if you updated your sig... that is what it is for ;-)
1- I think SAS is doable for sure. It would however be a PITA to get the electronic glitches worked out. There is a way to do it, it just needs to be a bunch of custom machining...and you may have to give up a few things. There are a few shops that I know of that have done FJ SAS around me (think they were 120 FJs but not sure). I would start with them. The first one is West Texas Offfroad in San Angelo TX. The owner has an FJ wth 1 tons under it. I chatted with him about it and I think he claimed he retained all the original electronics (but I could be wrong). If you call there you will probably get Mark who is the manager and a real nice guy. They do a lot of hydro steering work... and sell their own ram kit known as the redneck ram. Great.. good ol honest west Texas guys. One of them worked for Toyota, and I remember them saying that they had to use their contacts to get things worked out with the electronics. I would totally trust them. There is also a shop in Dallas called Beartrax that has dones at least one FJ (don't know much about them). Finally, there is a guy in CA that does a bunch of Toyota SAS and has a SASd FJ. Contact Us ? CALIFAB He seems to do great work and could most likely pull it off (although may need to lose some electronics)
2- Is it worth it. I'm not sure it is. Even if you SAS... The body on the 5th gen is still fighting you. To get it nice and low and run big tires 37+ (which you would totally want to do if you were SAS).. You would have to cut up the body... at this point you have to ask yourself why did I not just buy a JK which is plug and play....This is what led me to keep the 5th gen IFS and just do LT. It won't be as capable as SAS by any stretch, but it sort of matches the limits of the body and is more in line with what the truck is good at.. You will be able to scare the crap out of yourself and do any reasonable trail and it's all simple bolt on stuff that won't really sacrifice road manners. If you still want more... then think about SAS or a different truck. Anyway, that is my logic at this point.
OP...In the meantime, there is a lot of small stuff you can do to your truck that will make a huge difference in what it can do. 35s, front locker. These make a significant difference. Maybe you already have some of this (we would know if you updated your sig... that is what it is for ;-)
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Jetboy
New member
A few other thoughts on options:
2012 and later 70 series LC's have solid front axles, ABS, and VSC. Also the 105 series LCs have solid front axles and ABS/VSC. They are both 5 lug axles, so that's an issue. But they are definitely setup for abs sensors. It may be possible to order a 70 series knuckle and abs parts and use that on a locally sourced fj80 axle. I think they are otherwise interchangeable. If they're using the same vsc/abs system it may be possible. The ABS components are the same part numbers for all 2005+ tacomas, GX470/460, LC200, FJ Cruiser and 4runners, so at least the signals from the axles are all the same for all those models. I'd bet the same holds for the signal from the 12+ 70 series and the 105 series solid axles although the sensor is a bit different in shape to fit in a solid axle knuckle. I don't know how you'd find out without testing them though.
2012 and later 70 series LC's have solid front axles, ABS, and VSC. Also the 105 series LCs have solid front axles and ABS/VSC. They are both 5 lug axles, so that's an issue. But they are definitely setup for abs sensors. It may be possible to order a 70 series knuckle and abs parts and use that on a locally sourced fj80 axle. I think they are otherwise interchangeable. If they're using the same vsc/abs system it may be possible. The ABS components are the same part numbers for all 2005+ tacomas, GX470/460, LC200, FJ Cruiser and 4runners, so at least the signals from the axles are all the same for all those models. I'd bet the same holds for the signal from the 12+ 70 series and the 105 series solid axles although the sensor is a bit different in shape to fit in a solid axle knuckle. I don't know how you'd find out without testing them though.
Jetboy
New member
One more crazy thought:
The Tundra/LC200 front is seriously beefy for an IFS. 8.7" diff. etc. It could be a viable alternative if you're willing to live with IFS to run the LC200 IFS and 37-40" tires. It will take a fair bit of fab work to get it all mounted up. Possibly even use the center diff and custom axles to retain your stock outer assembly and build a more pure long travel IFS from scratch.
One other source to consider for ABS signal is the rear axle set. It almost certainly has to be the same signal type as the fronts and the tone ring/sensor may be easier to adapt to a front solid axle.
The Tundra/LC200 front is seriously beefy for an IFS. 8.7" diff. etc. It could be a viable alternative if you're willing to live with IFS to run the LC200 IFS and 37-40" tires. It will take a fair bit of fab work to get it all mounted up. Possibly even use the center diff and custom axles to retain your stock outer assembly and build a more pure long travel IFS from scratch.
One other source to consider for ABS signal is the rear axle set. It almost certainly has to be the same signal type as the fronts and the tone ring/sensor may be easier to adapt to a front solid axle.
I got a positive response back from them thank you for the recommendation ! they are working on it now , they already have the capability to use our stock brakes and rotors. So I will be one of his first to try it.
Why not keep the KDSS functional? Change the bar diameter to match the required sway... It would require some testing, so some off the shelf straight bars with bolt on end links would be ideal... Find the proper length, machine adapters so it will interface with the stock frame and KDSS hydraulic cylinder mount.
The wheel bearing tone ring issue will not be difficult to overcome. If careful, the tone ring can be removed from the stock bearing and utilized in a different set-up... Full floating even. It's just a matter of mounting the ring and sensor so they function.
The steering.... Hmmm.... Need to brainstorm that one. Maybe seperate the spool valve from the rack, gear it to run a pitman arm... Or place it between the steering shaft and a manual steering gearbox.... Place the rack down on the axle like like a hydraulic cylinder.
The wheel bearing tone ring issue will not be difficult to overcome. If careful, the tone ring can be removed from the stock bearing and utilized in a different set-up... Full floating even. It's just a matter of mounting the ring and sensor so they function.
The steering.... Hmmm.... Need to brainstorm that one. Maybe seperate the spool valve from the rack, gear it to run a pitman arm... Or place it between the steering shaft and a manual steering gearbox.... Place the rack down on the axle like like a hydraulic cylinder.
Is this the one?
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w
unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w
ontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> I believe this might be what you're talking about.
Be safe.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/220221-only-kdss-w-lift-need-apply.html
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w
unctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> I believe this might be what you're talking about.Be safe.
Jetboy
New member
Awesome. That was really a shot in the dark trying to remember something I saw quite a while ago. I've never bought anything from them, but have met their vendor team at an event. They are also sister company of diamond axle if you didn't know that. I wish they had a little better website to show off some of the cool stuff they are doing. They have a bolt in rear housing for our 4runners that uses a Land Cruiser 9.5 for example that I think could be a popular upgrade. The 8.2 is seeming to be very strong - kinda amazingly strong to be honest. I've yet to see or hear of a major failure.
