KDSS(TE) vs Non KDSS (SR5)
- Thread starter fjc32
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eddiebx
New member
Thai
Elite Member
If it wasn't for people like you being so damn stubbornly wrong, this thread would not be 9 pages long!
Hey, it was a good ride. I am happy...you're happy...everyone's happy.
eddiebx
New member
[MENTION=85512]eddiebx[/MENTION]
That is why RTI measurements should be done by the same people, under the same condition, using the same tools. Otherwise, it is useless. I thought that this point was obvious...i stand corrected.
But, eddie, do you understand my point now?
You don't doubt that there are SOME benefits. What are we arguing about then??? Why are you not on my side?!
I have NEVER claimed that KDSS is a long-arm substitute!! NEVER. I have never claimed that KDSS replaces a lift. NEVER. EVER. NEVER.
Thai, for what it's worth, I never said I don't see your point. I always understood what you meant, but you kept such a closed minded view of it, and that was my only "beef". I truly have nothing against you or anyone here, but I am certainly not going to take anyone's side when everyone has made valid points. I just wish you would see the validity in other peoples opinions instead of only your own! :hello:
But hey, at least at the end of the day, all this arguing has provided a lot of visual explanations for others to read and consider :cheers:
1engineer
Moderator
Yep.
Thai
Elite Member
I am not sure why you're prolonging this...again, for someone who is asking me to move on, you sure like to pull me back in. And you critic me for repeating myself!
Your beef with me is wrong. I am close-minded to people who make wrong assumptions and inaccurate assessment. You're right...i hate it when people make wrong statements and then fail to see the facts correctly...and THEN spread it everywhere! So, i should have kept quiet and let 1engineer and harper7 tell people how useless KDSS is off-road?? That it provides no benefit whatsoever in off-roading since all bumpstops are the same?? Removal of sway/anti-roll bars provide no increased travel when off-roading? This is Off-roading 101! You don't need an engineering degree to figure it out!Really, you want to perpetuate these "factoids" on this forum by these individuals?? And now that you see that they are/were wrong, you still b!tch at me for being right all along? :lmao: Nice.
Step back eddiebx...look at it objectively. You may hate me for being "close-minded to actual facts"...but look at it from a perspective of a novice (like yourself, who bought a $40k+ SUV because of fender colors!). What if there was no Thai around (yes, i know...happy days!!)...YOU would be led to believe that your TE is no better than a stock SR5 off-road by harper7 and 1engineer. That KDSS is really an on-road only technology. Hey, if you want wrong information, then good luck with that...but don't expect me to lay down and let crap get flung around this forum...a forum that i am very proud of!
Sorry...and yeah, if you have nothing else to say to me except b!tch at me for being assertive and stubbonly right, then PM me instead.
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Thai
Elite Member
eddiebx
New member
[MENTION=2]Thai[/MENTION], come on man why do you keep twisting my words and making me appear to be the bad guy! Just because I don't wholeheartedly agree with all of your opinions does not mean I am "b itching" you out. And why the need to pick sides? Aren't we all here to share and discuss, instead of divide and conquer?
[MENTION=8206]harper7[/MENTION], would you mind sharing your opinion with why you chose the the Torsen center diff over the non and full time vs part time 4WD? I am in the research stage and demoing different models. Yesterday I got to test drive a 2017 Tacoma DC TRD Pro and it was amazing!!! Today I am in a TE Premium.
I have read several posts as to what they are but no one has expressed why one may be better than the other or better in certain situations?
Also- I have read in the new owner forum that to increase tire size it may require modifying the bumper or wheel well... might be referencing the wrong area, but I think you know what I mean. How are you and/or others doing that? :hail::hail::hail:
I have read several posts as to what they are but no one has expressed why one may be better than the other or better in certain situations?
Also- I have read in the new owner forum that to increase tire size it may require modifying the bumper or wheel well... might be referencing the wrong area, but I think you know what I mean. How are you and/or others doing that? :hail::hail::hail:
RTI- What is this all about?
Being new to the forum and the 4Runner world... there are a lot of acronyms, sometimes I can figure them out and a lot of times I can't.... so I have to go look them up.
Here is what I found for RTI:
Response to intervention (RTI) is a process used by educators to help students who are struggling with a skill or lesson; every teacher will use interventions (a set of teaching procedures) with any student to help them succeed in the classroom—it's not just for children with special needs or a learning disability.
In a "twisted way"
this definition fits well for this KDSS thread.
Ps- just got to drive a new '17 Tacoma TRD Pro yesterday and it was stellar! I am now demoing the '16 TE Premium... love the lack of body sway on-road through the corners. I did find out that the '17 model 4R line up will include a TRD Pro Trail Edition Premium. Don't know what that will be... but sounds awesome! Have a great Friday everyone here. And even though this thread got heated at times I have learned a lot b/c of the ongoing conversations. Thanks everyone!
Being new to the forum and the 4Runner world... there are a lot of acronyms, sometimes I can figure them out and a lot of times I can't.... so I have to go look them up.
Here is what I found for RTI:
Response to intervention (RTI) is a process used by educators to help students who are struggling with a skill or lesson; every teacher will use interventions (a set of teaching procedures) with any student to help them succeed in the classroom—it's not just for children with special needs or a learning disability.
In a "twisted way"
this definition fits well for this KDSS thread.Ps- just got to drive a new '17 Tacoma TRD Pro yesterday and it was stellar! I am now demoing the '16 TE Premium... love the lack of body sway on-road through the corners. I did find out that the '17 model 4R line up will include a TRD Pro Trail Edition Premium. Don't know what that will be... but sounds awesome! Have a great Friday everyone here. And even though this thread got heated at times I have learned a lot b/c of the ongoing conversations. Thanks everyone!
1engineer
Moderator
Being new to the forum and the 4Runner world... there are a lot of acronyms, sometimes I can figure them out and a lot of times I can't.... so I have to go look them up.
Here is what I found for RTI:
Response to intervention (RTI) is a process used by educators to help students who are struggling with a skill or lesson; every teacher will use interventions (a set of teaching procedures) with any student to help them succeed in the classroom—it's not just for children with special needs or a learning disability.
In a "twisted way"
Ps- just got to drive a new '17 Tacoma TRD Pro yesterday and it was stellar! I am now demoing the '16 TE Premium... love the lack of body sway on-road through the corners. I did find out that the '17 model 4R line up will include a TRD Pro Trail Edition Premium. Don't know what that will be... but sounds awesome! Have a great Friday everyone here. And even though this thread got heated at times I have learned a lot b/c of the ongoing conversations. Thanks everyone!
Two things:
Gary (Harper7) bought an Audi or Porsche or some race car and left the forum a few years ago so he's not gonna respond.
RTI stands for Ramp Travel Index. Higher the RTI, further the articulation of your vehicle's suspension before a tire lifts off.
I found that definition afterward... I liked this one better, thought it was funny after reading all 9 pages of posts.
wfo9
New member
People choose a full time system with a Torsen center because they have a desire to drive around in 4wd all the time.. Seamlessly going between dry pavement and icy/slick conditions without having to think about it.... The only real downside to the system over a part time 4wd... is that it hurts mpg when you don't need it and may wear out some parts a little faster on dry pavement than a part time system. I've seen where the front diff will develop seal leaks on a full time system at pretty low miles... This is probably just related to the fact that it is running hot most of the time.
This thread is one I have not seen before. I'm surprised that there was such disagreement that KDSS does not improve effective wheel travel. That is sort of a trick question, but it absolutely helps in crawl conditions, but hurts a bit at speed.
I've spent a bunch of time with these trucks and KDSS will help. Even better though (sometimes), is no swaybars at all... But this all depends on the conditions and the type of terrain. Sway-bars are very useful at times (even offroad)
I recently got to experience a side by side comparison on an obstacle that should be familiar to many here. The wall on P Gultch in Ouray CO.
3 Truck.
- Mine with LT rear no sway bars
- Friend with TE KDSS
- Friend with TRD Pro with swaybars on
All on 3" lifts of various types. All on 33" tires except mine on 34".. all with rear locker and ATRAC on. But I think I cheated and used my front locker since I was the first one up.
- My truck crawled right up with no wheel spin at all (made it look stupid easy)
- TE with KDSS struggled a bit... got a wheel off the ground here and there , had to line back up a few times...but eventually made it
- Pro tried but just could not keep the wheels on the ground and get enough traction. We had to eventually winch him up after 15min of trying.
That was the only time on the entire trip where he struggled.. so You can see for mild stuff it rarely makes any difference. But in hard core crawl situations... you are going to see it help.
1engineer
Moderator
This is a thread where you have to read each post very carefully. Also arguing with Thai is a... Challenge lol.
tacosupreme
New member
For those of you with mild builds, say Icon coilovers, 33's, armor, etc. Is all of this really needed? I'm trying to decide if it's worth ordering a pro/ '17 TRD Offroad and waiting or just buying an SR5 and building it. Would a non KDSS with decent aftermarket shocks be better than a KDSS equipped factory rig?
1engineer
Moderator
There is no aftermarket solution to emulating KDSS. You can either improve off road performance or on road performance with aftermarket components but not both. That is what KDSS offers.
