ayeyothisiskyle
Member
Can't a raptor be had for around 60k? A base LC is in the 80s. Also the only new LCs on the road are grocery getters for toyota fans. Because out in CA, if youre getting a $80-90k vehicle, you're in a euro.
KDSS vs Non-KDSS?
- Thread starter NYRunner
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Can't a raptor be had for around 60k? A base LC is in the 80s. Also the only new LCs on the road are grocery getters for toyota fans. Because out in CA, if youre getting a $80-90k vehicle, you're in a euro.
off-road runner
New member
In 2010 when we purchased a Trail, I thought KDSS was more of a gimmick for off-road applications. After getting the '15 TEP with KDSS, won't go back to non-KDSS. Had to order to get KDSS up here.
IMO the Pro doesn't have the KDSS option cause it is not easily seen, as in aesthetically. Pro has the black rims and different grille which are easily spotted but most of those Pro owners probably wouldn't shell out $1500 for an option that other drivers can't even see. So yea... marketing.
IMO the Pro doesn't have the KDSS option cause it is not easily seen, as in aesthetically. Pro has the black rims and different grille which are easily spotted but most of those Pro owners probably wouldn't shell out $1500 for an option that other drivers can't even see. So yea... marketing.
Jetboy
New member
You're right. I had thought the Raptor was more like $90k. Lots of them on dealer lots around me for $60-70k range. Can't touch a LC200 for that. Cheapest one in my area is $86k. Although I do see a few around.
ayeyothisiskyle
Member
I mean, I'd definitely be down for a TRD PRO LC, I'm just not sure other people are willing to pay for that.
Engineer
New member
In all fairness to you Toyota does make a more "work truck" oriented version of the LC200 sold overseas - obviously that's not a direct comparison to a raptor if its that stripped down but my thought was if they trimmed down the LC200 packages over to meet in the middle you could get a awesome set up straight from Toyota but we wont hold our breath.
Or they could just give us the 70 series.
Jetboy
New member
Typically back of the envelope adjustment to Australian prices is Toyota Australia price conversion from AUD to USD conversion and then subtract about $7,000 USD for Aussie taxes and fees and you'll get a close approximation of a USA cost. (I found this by comparing identical models of Highlander/Kluger and Rav4, so it's not exact, but close enough, LC200 pricing similarly optioned is also spot on using this method). The LC200 in base GX trim would translate to roughly $57,000 USD. Cheapest model with KDSS included is $78k USD.
If you started with the most base model version you could probably get there for $70k. But if it included KDSS you need at least $18k more based on Aussie pricing - you have to get a $14k GXL package minimum and then add the KDSS option for $3,500.
KDSS in the 4runner is a steal by Aussie standards.
Vulgarian
New member
My Icon Stage 7 set-up is quiet as a mouse and I have KDSS. Would I go with KDSS again, I don't know. I do love the way the truck handles with it. Could it potentially limit my ability to a long travel set-up - yes. But if I'm going down that branch of the rabbit hole, I'm also going with 35's, re-gearing, doing a BMC, aftermarket front fenders and going to a custom anti-sway bar anyway.
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Engineer
New member
Don't be so logical
sting555
Member
Believe what you want to believe. I've done a side by side comparison with a measuring tape and the front skid on my buddies Trail w/ KDSS does sit about 1" lower that on my SR5 (when both vehicles had stock suspension). The front skid also sits slightly more forward.
By the way, your pictures don't show any measurements and don't help your argument here.
Here's another thread discussing the same topic.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/200199-nowhere-near-advertised-ground-clearance-3.html
johnbt
Member
I got down on my hands and knees in the parking lot and looked at the clearance before I bought my '16 Trail Premium w/KDSS. I got what I paid for and it's been great so far, on road and off. This week we're on the Outer Banks again.
You know what ticks me off? I'm not getting the advertised gas mileage. Bunch of lying scum. Who can you trust? :biggrin2:
You know what ticks me off? I'm not getting the advertised gas mileage. Bunch of lying scum. Who can you trust? :biggrin2:
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Jetboy
New member
This should be pretty easy to sort out. Just answer the following 2 questions.
1. Does KDSS fit under the TRD Pro skid plate? (with side skirts cut)
2. Does the TRD Pro have less ground clearance than other models?
All you need to know is shown in the pics I already posted.
Unless your answers are different from mine - KDSS does not lower ground clearance. If they are - we need to investigate further because your 4runner must be a different model from mine.
But, just to further clear up any confusion, here's a few that should help. These are of my 4runner with ~ 2 inch lift and 34" tires. The photos show in order: Front TRD Skid (with KDSS), front IFS cross member at rear, transfer case skid lowest point, and rear differential. As you can see, the rear differential is the lowest point. And more importantly the KDSS is inside the TRD skid plate - which is also level with all the rest of the front end skid plates.
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Jetboy
New member
I agree in general. Everyone's setup is different. The pics were just for reference that the front skid is not the lowest point on most 4runners. The rear differential is.
With respect to disproving the claim that KDSS lowers clearance - you don't need to measure anything.
- Ground clearance is a measurement from the ground to the lowest point.
- Unless KDSS is the lowest point - or causes the lowest point be different from non KDSS models - it does not effect ground clearance.
- KDSS fits above the TRD skid plate in the normal mounting position.
- Therefore it does not change ground clearance.
It's an illusion because of where it sits slightly forward of the front IFS crossmember. I agree that if you go out to the dealer lot - it looks like it sits lower. But the KDSS skid is flat and level with cross members. It is the same as any other model in ground clearance. So if someone says they compared them, or measured them, and found a difference - it's only due to suspension setup or tires. Or they didn't look closer than a cursory glance.
Edit: yes, KDSS and non KDSS models do have a different front skid plate. The earlier picture I posted was of my OEM KDSS skid from the back side - showing that it is in fact level with the other engine skid. It just takes a quick look underneath to confirm that this is the case. It's level with the rest of the skids. That doesn't mean you won't bang in on stuff sometimes. It has a lesser effective approach angle relative to the tires, so occasionally there will be something you'd miss with the nonKDSS steel skid you'll hit with the KDSS skid. The TRD Pro skid actually extends even further forward than the KDSS steel skid at the same level - making it the worst of the bunch in this category. So if you were trying to swap 4runners as someone had mentioned earlier - going to a TRD Pro will make it worse. Only a non KDSS Trail or SR5 would offer some marginal improvement. But even a 1/2" lift or kicking your passengers out would make more difference than choosing another model. None of them have different distance to the ground.
I prefer the steel one. It weighs less, has IMO better engineering behind it for maximizing the weight/strength ratio - but in the end it wasn't designed for my type of use. It just isn't thick enough to give me confidence I wouldn't dent it to the point of damaging engine parts. You can see that mine did it's job well - but I was concerned about the oil pan getting damaged if I kept abusing it, so I bought the TRD Pro. I'm going back to the Rubicon in June - I'll do my best to see if I can break it!
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Jetboy
New member
I think that goes back to the issue of everyone's being slightly different. Springs and shocks have changed from year to year. KDSS front suspension had different parts numbers than non-KDSS for most early years, then changed to share the same springs and shocks as the non-KDSS versions in later model years. It's parallel to the frame. So if your frame has some rake to it, the front might be slightly lower until you put some weight in it. I believe I have factory rake or very close to it and my frame rails are nearly level, so are all of my skids. Either way - you're equal to or better than the TRD Pro skid. I've yet to see a complaint about that skid being too low compared to the non-KDSS skid.
I'll stick an angle gauge on it tonight to verify.
I'll stick an angle gauge on it tonight to verify.
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