Keep Countersteers/go back to stock wheels??

[SShink]

I have a 2013 TE which right now has Cornfed 1" spacers in front and Countersteer X wheels with the stock 265 tires mounted. I figured I'd get the wear out of the tires before getting new ones.

Besides being absolutely atrocious in the snow, the stock tires are worn-out, so it's time to get new ones. As I live in upstate NY, snow is my biggest concern (over the looks of the tire). As such, I've selected Firestone Destination A/T tires.

The question is, do I keep the Countersteer wheels and move up to a 275, OR have the stock wheels powder-coated black and get 285's? I don't want to cause a rub that will require more attention that the inner fender mod that is commonly spoken of here. Even though the Countersteers look nice and weigh less, the outward offset does put a lot of road crap/snow on the side of the vehicle, so I don't mind going back to the stock offset.

Thoughts?

 

[wfo9]

you should go back to stock and sell me the countersteers for real cheap. I'll give you $300 ;-)

 

[SShink]

you should go back to stock and sell me the countersteers for real cheap. I'll give you $300 ;-)

If I go back to stock, I'll be selling the wheels on here. They've never been off-road or curb scraped and have only had one set of tires mounted on them. I have the original boxes to ship in.

 

[Mooney]

Definitely go with stock!

I'll give you $350 plus shipping for those nasty FN's!

 

[Swarty]

Shouldn't make a difference.

The question is, do I keep the Countersteer wheels and move up to a 275, OR have the stock wheels powder-coated black and get 285's? I don't want to cause a rub that will require more attention that the inner fender mod that is commonly spoken of here. Even though the Countersteers look nice and weigh less, the outward offset does put a lot of road crap/snow on the side of the vehicle, so I don't mind going back to the stock offset.
Thoughts?

Well I'm not sure why you would only consider 275s on the Xs but 285s on stock.
Let put on my engineer uniform for a sec :nerd:
IMO the extra crap on your car is due more to tire wear than offset. The difference in offset is only 10mm(.4") so your tire only moved out by that much. Running 285s on stock will give the identical track width to a 265 on a -10 offset. Thing is that as your tires wear they push more of slush/mud to the sides so my guess is that regardless of rim/tire choice new, deeper tread will make way more of a difference on the amount of splash than your offset.

Personally I run seasonal tires.
I'd keep the Xs since they reduce rotational mass and buy whatever tire you want for the dry season and put some nice snows on the stock rims. swapping rims is a breeze.:smow:

 

[Swarty]

Otoh

If you do sell your Xs send me a shipping quote for 97070...

 

[sn_85]

Same here. I'll get in line for those Countersteers if you decide to get rid of them!!!

 

[Cheers!]

countersteer with new 275 tires (i.e. Cooper STmax).
stock wheels with new 245 winter specific tires (i.e. Michelin X-ice).

You live in the snow belt. An all terrain tire in the snow is still not optimum.

 

[philsey]

countersteer with new 275 tires (i.e. Cooper STmax).
stock wheels with new 245 winter specific tires (i.e. Michelin X-ice).

You live in the snow belt. An all terrain tire in the snow is still not optimum.

This. You already have 2 sets of wheels. Real-deal winter tires FTW. Upstate NY? No brainer.

 

[SShink]

This. You already have 2 sets of wheels. Real-deal winter tires FTW. Upstate NY? No brainer.

I'm a hot-rodder and have LOTS of cars/parts in my garage and basement, I don't really have room for the extra set of wheels, let alone a set of wheels w/tires (which takes up a lot more room). 2 sets makes sense, yes, but it's simply not an option due to space.

Out of curiosity, why do you suggest a 245 for the winter tires?

 

[SShink]

Well I'm not sure why you would only consider 275s on the Xs but 285s on stock.
Let put on my engineer uniform for a sec :nerd:
IMO the extra crap on your car is due more to tire wear than offset. The difference in offset is only 10mm(.4") so your tire only moved out by that much. Running 285s on stock will give the identical track width to a 265 on a -10 offset. Thing is that as your tires wear they push more of slush/mud to the sides so my guess is that regardless of rim/tire choice new, deeper tread will make way more of a difference on the amount of splash than your offset.

Personally I run seasonal tires.
I'd keep the Xs since they reduce rotational mass and buy whatever tire you want for the dry season and put some nice snows on the stock rims. swapping rims is a breeze.:smow:

With the stock tires (Dunlop Grand Trek) on the Countersteers, I get a slight rub in reverse at full lock. The stock tires are very round in cross section, so if I go to a more aggressive tread with a squarer profile, that rub is going to increase. Going up in size will also increase the rub. It has been said over and over in this forum that Countersteers with 285's and no lift will rub badly, so I'm not going to go there. At least with stock offset wheels and 285's you have a chance of having no rub.

I was under the impression that the offset was increased by .9". maybe that was a .9" increase in overall track width?
Anyhow, the offset of the Countersteers certainly contributes to more muck on the side of the vehicle. This was something I noticed immediately after having them mounted. The additional offset puts the almost even with the top of the fender lip - toward the back/bottom of the wheel wells, the tire tread is exposed. Renders the mud flaps less useful. To make matters worse, I have Shrockworks sliders on it which grow enormous stalactites from all the extra ice/snow that gets thrown back there.

As far as the benefits of the Countersteer wheels, they certainly do make the vehicle more nimble. It accelerates and stops faster/less distance. To me, this is the big benefit they offer. Very noticeable over stock wheels.
I have not seen much if any of an increase in gas mileage - maybe 1 or 2 MPG in city driving.

 

[Cheers!]

for snow tires you want narrower because you want to cut through the snow to find traction. Not float above it.

This is for civilized areas. If you live in Alaska or Antartic or Iceland where you want to go explore the back country then yes you want to float above, because there is no ground until you go through maybe 5 to 10 feet of snow. Anywhere else where there is civilization, guaranteed you will not be driving over a public road that has 5+ feet until you find pavement.

Out of all the car parts and other misc stuff you have in your garage, I would sell/throw away stuff just to make room for a stack of 4 wheels+tires. That would be a foot print of 32"x32"x50" at most.

Real snow tires are worth their weight in gold. I lived in Canada for 99% of my life and only recently moved to Sunny California. My trusty 2003 Subaru Legacy never ever let me down in the winter with snow tires. The only time I got stuck was when I drove it across a frozen lake in Northern Ontario to reach a cottage and didn't see a dip in the ice that was covered by a snow drift. I beached my Subaru and had to wave down 2 snowmobilers to help me out.

 

[Swarty]

Not sure then...

With the stock tires (Dunlop Grand Trek) on the Countersteers, I get a slight rub in reverse at full lock. At least with stock offset wheels and 285's you have a chance of having no rub.

Well your outside edge by definition is the same with X's at 265 and stock's at 285. Also with the cornfeds you aren't at stock height. Not that it matters, I have a lift and my 285's on stocks required my front flaps to be trimmed. Every truck sits different.

I was under the impression that the offset was increased by .9". maybe that was a .9" increase in overall track width?

track width is almost .8" (20mm) offset is almost .4" (10mm)

Anyhow, the offset of the Countersteers certainly contributes to more muck on the side of the vehicle. This was something I noticed immediately after having them mounted. The additional offset puts the almost even with the top of the fender lip - toward the back/bottom of the wheel wells, the tire tread is exposed.

This is surprising considering how little they moved out but fluids and aerodynamics are frequently surprising so it's entirely possible. :tinfoil3:
More surprising that the spacer lift and the change in camber didn't have more of an effect than the offset.

for snow tires you want narrower because you want to cut through the snow to find traction. Not float above it.

Exactly, this and price. I have 285/70 MT's and 245/75 Blizzak's, they are both fantastic.
I'd advise not to worry about splash and stay with the recommendation of 275's or285's on the X's and snows on the stocks. Trim your mudflaps and call it good. remember they should only need to be trimmed by less than a 1/2" if the rub is due to the offset. But My 4runner wears mud and dirt like it's the stock paint job so take that for what you will. IMO it's how it looks best. :mullet:

 

[SShink]

Going bye-bye...

With my bald factory Dunlops, I flunked the NY state inspection and had to make a quick decision.
I am having Firestone Destination AT 285's put on the stock wheels today. I plan to take them off and black plasti-dip the wheels this weekend. I prefer a chunkier looking wheel, so I was never really in love with the Countersteers. So...
They are up for sale - they're in great shape, never been off-road and can be shipped in the original boxes. They will ship from 14564 and I will charge actual shipping, USPS or UPS. Will clean them up and post pix in the = near future.

 

[Greenamphibious]

Destinations are actually a damn good tire! you should sell the counter steers easily... but I am with you, never really liked the look of them. I am a huge fan of OEM wheels with larger tires

 

[SShink]

My Countersteers are posted in the "wheels for sale" section.

 

[Range]

May I ask why you are selling them? I've been looking at FN's but I'm also stuck on whether or not to keep it OEM. Did you just not like them?

 

[jasonv]

I'm confused. the wheels are 1 inch wider than stock, with the same backspacing plus 10mm negative offset? shouldn't they stick out 1 inch plus 10mm more than stock? so basically almost an inch and a half?

thanks in advance, I can never get my head around this back spacing/offset thing. I don't understand why it isn't one measurement. doesn't negative offset act just like less backspacing?