Lift question... Sagging with full load?

[RedST4R]

Newb question since I'm new to this thread and to mods. I've recently purchased a used 2012 4runner sr5 w/ 3rd row a few months back and this is my first 4runner. I've been roaming the site ever since, looking at great builds and researching mods. Now, looking to lift the rig so I've purchased a set of bilstein 5100s (planning to set at 1.75 front) and 1" cornfed spacers for the rear. I have not installed it due to baby arriving soon... more like this week! I will be moving to Alaska early next year, and my question is will my rig sag with that set up at full load? I'll have a cargo carrier on roof and possibly a load hitch carrier and I know I'll still have rake with set up. Just wondering if I'll have a negative rake. Also, would I be better coils like SAW or installing an airlift 1000 instead w/ the rear spacers?

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[Forest RnR]

I would think it probably would sag with all of that going on. I was wondering about air bags as well when towing, but was told by a local 4x4 shop that they limit travel (in case you are going offroad with this load) if you are only going on the road trip part with this much load you may want to get airbags, then sell them after the move. If you will always be towing alot (camping, overlanding) then you may want a heavier rate spring for the back. I'm sure others will chime in with more specific advise. Have a good move and congrats on the baby!

 

[jwkilgore]

Probably. The reason trucks are designed with prominent rake is so they won't look squatty under load. If you remove some of the rake then the side effect is that it will probably look squatty at full cargo load with most of the weight in the rear.

Yes, taller springs are generally better than a spacer because you'll get more articulation. Those SAW-branded coils were made by Eibach, and have been discontinued. I think the only equivalent is now branded by Wheeler's (still made by Eibach). I believe those particular springs will give you about 2" or so of lift with a third row (the 1.5" in the name is from the 4th gen which has the same rear suspension). So you won't be making it more "level" while unloaded, plus they are slightly stiffer, which will remove any problems you may have had with reverse rake under full load. Other popular springs are from Icon and Old Man Emu (OME), but most are stiffer and/or taller.

If you are going to be alternating between empty and heavily loaded a lot, then air bags are the way to go. But as Forest said, they will limit articulation, but that may be acceptable unless you do real hard-core off-roading while fully loaded. You could also go with much stiffer springs, but your ride will suffer when unloaded.

Another option would be Icon's dual-rate rear springs. I understand the soft half provides for a comfortable unloaded ride but fully compresses under load. The stiffer half then flexes under heavy loads. But it's closer to a 3" lift.

Make sure you check out some of the T4R.com sponsors when purchasing. Many have discounts for forum members. Wheelers, Total Automotive Performance, etc.

 

[RedST4R]

I think I might just go with the airlift in the meantime since I'm only going full load with this road trip. Although I might do some offroading when I get up there since most activities in AK involve the outdoors.

However in the longterm, I'm considering the stiffer springs in the rear. Are there any other springs that doesnt offer too high of a lift? Planning to keep stock size tires that's why.

Thanks a lot! I appreciate the input! [MENTION=127365]Forest RnR[/MENTION] and [MENTION=126566]jwkilgore[/MENTION]

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[(none)]

I think I might just go with the airlift in the meantime since I'm only going full load with this road trip. Although I might do some offroading when I get up there since most activities in AK involve the outdoors.

However in the longterm, I'm considering the stiffer springs in the rear. Are there any other springs that doesnt offer too high of a lift? Planning to keep stock size tires that's why.

Thanks a lot! I appreciate the input! [MENTION=127365]Forest RnR[/MENTION] and [MENTION=126566]jwkilgore[/MENTION]

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Check the post about the lifts available. OME offers a lift that is around 2", the rear springs are 260lb/in, so around 23-25% stiffer than stock springs. They will be less prone to sagging under heavy loads, but will give you a stiffer ride when unloaded.

As mentioned, the Wheelers offer about the same lift with only about 10% added stiffness over stock. Dobinson also offers a similar set up with around 220lb/in rear springs. These, in conjunction with the airlift springs, is how I'm looking to go. Allows for a small lift, good ride and then the airlift springs allow for extra loading when needed.

From airlift and from reading else where, the airlift springs will not degrade off road performance, just keep a minimum of 5psi on them to prevent pinching.

 

[RedST4R]

Check the post about the lifts available. OME offers a lift that is around 2", the rear springs are 260lb/in, so around 23-25% stiffer than stock springs. They will be less prone to sagging under heavy loads, but will give you a stiffer ride when unloaded.

As mentioned, the Wheelers offer about the same lift with only about 10% added stiffness over stock. Dobinson also offers a similar set up with around 220lb/in rear springs. These, in conjunction with the airlift springs, is how I'm looking to go. Allows for a small lift, good ride and then the airlift springs allow for extra loading when needed.

From airlift and from reading else where, the airlift springs will not degrade off road performance, just keep a minimum of 5psi on them to prevent pinching.

Awesome, thanks!

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[LandCruiser]

As others have said, OME medium is probably the best choice. The heavies are too stiff for a vehicle that isn't always loaded up with armor.

 

[Breadman03]

I threw an Airlift kit in mine for a road trip. Realistically, I'm not going to get any heavy wheeling time because everywhere around here is fenced off and it's my daily driver. I ran the air line to my trailer plug bracket. I really can't feel any difference in the ride when empty, but a minute at an air pump and I can load up with 6 people, a week worth of luggage in a rooftop box, and a cooler hanging from the back. The only problem I had on my trip was pulling the box off the roof in Chicago due to parking garage issues.

Man, it really sucks pulling an XL Thule box off the roof on the side of a Chicago street while folding down seats to put it inside!

 

[Crikeymike]

We're coming out with progressive (variable rate) rear coils for these, and that will overcome problems like overloading, without riding like junk when empty.

 

[Jetboy]

I've had airlift springs inside coils on my last 4runner (3rd gen) and full airbags on my 5th gen (from a GX460). My general consensus is that I personally do not like the ride of air springs. Shock valving was never very good for me, and I could not find any high quality information regarding appropriate valving to manage the highly progressive spring rate that is inherent with air springs. I would not be totally opposed to airlift style springs on my 5th gen for adding some load carrying ability. I may even go back to full air springs at some point if I can work out a few other issues - mainly ride quality. The adjustable height is a very nice benefit.

I kind of like the idea of air adjustable shocks for the rear, but I don't want to downgrade my shock performance. If there were something more like an bag-over that could retrofit to my Fox shocks, I'd consider that as a possibility where you'd be changing a spring preload not relying as much on the air spring.

Anyway that's my experience. I'd toss a set of airlift springs in for $100 and see if you like them. Worst case - take them out.

 

[RedST4R]

I've had airlift springs inside coils on my last 4runner (3rd gen) and full airbags on my 5th gen (from a GX460). My general consensus is that I personally do not like the ride of air springs. Shock valving was never very good for me, and I could not find any high quality information regarding appropriate valving to manage the highly progressive spring rate that is inherent with air springs. I would not be totally opposed to airlift style springs on my 5th gen for adding some load carrying ability. I may even go back to full air springs at some point if I can work out a few other issues - mainly ride quality. The adjustable height is a very nice benefit.

I kind of like the idea of air adjustable shocks for the rear, but I don't want to downgrade my shock performance. If there were something more like an bag-over that could retrofit to my Fox shocks, I'd consider that as a possibility where you'd be changing a spring preload not relying as much on the air spring.

Anyway that's my experience. I'd toss a set of airlift springs in for $100 and see if you like them. Worst case - take them out.

Thanks for the offer. Still contemplating if I'm going with rear SAW coils or keep the cornfed spacers for the rear.

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