Looking for a new pistol

[Thai]

1. If a bystander was hit I would certainly open myself up to liability. Given the circumstance I would be surprised if there would be a criminal charge.

But for the chance of saving lives, including my own or my family, it's a decision I would have to make and live with.

Really?! You would be surprised?! IMHO, it is a definite that you will be charged and jailed...and sued for everything you got from victim's family.

Do you think that your kids growing up fatherless (and poor!) is worth it? If you're 40 ft away, then that means that there was a chance for you to get away. That is what the jury will look at.

You're a better (ballsier) man than me. And that is honest from me.:yo:

 

[bofa]

Really?! You would be surprised?! IMHO, it is a definite that you will be charged and jailed...and sued for everything you got from victim's family.

Do you think that your kids growing up fatherless (and poor!) is worth it? If you're 40 ft away, then that means that there was a chance for you to get away. That is what the jury will look at.

You're a better (ballsier) man than me. And that is honest from me.:yo:

I wouldn't blindly fire if there were others right next to him... But if you think about it, in this situation, the shooter is likely isolated as people are running from him. 40ft is not that far away and that's why you learn target acquisition and to use your sights. I would act totally different if he had a hostage.

Even in a less drastic situation, being able to hit a target at that distance is not unreasonable. I took out a potentially rabid possum on my fence at about 60 feet at night time. Of course I back up to woods and the yard slopes downward a bit so I wasn't worried about collateral damage.

I'm no cowboy, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let some fool continue to shoot up a bunch of innocent people without a fight. At least throw some snow caps at him before you run Thai.... :lol:

 

[Thai]

I will throw my soiled underwear at him!

 

[JohnnyT]

Nice.

Be interesting test to have someone come into a theatre of 200 and fire 3 shots into the ceiling with 10 armed patrons in the crowd and see how many people get killed.

I say 2 dozen. Get the picture?

 

[Thai]

I will throw my underwear at him...but am no hero. Sorry guys. Me and my family come first.

Even in a less drastic situation, being able to hit a target at that distance is not unreasonable. I took out a potentially rabid possum on my fence at about 60 feet at night time. Of course I back up to woods and the yard slopes downward a bit so I wasn't worried about collateral damage.

On a more serious note, this comparison is not valid. The possum is not firing back at you, trying to kill you...and your stress level is much higher with the theater shooting. The possum is also not wearing body armor. Unless you're a sniper for the NAVY SEALs, your aim is going to be way off your normal gun range accuracy. Don't forget, there will be people rushing around you, bumping into you, etc...not even close to the environment you described above with the possum. And like you said, there was no one else around the possum. Put your friend behind that possum and you think that your nerves and aim will be just as good??????

I really discourage anyone from doing what you and SV are suggesting. The theater shooting ain't the gun range.

 

[KCcarguy]

Nice.

Be interesting test to have someone come into a theatre of 200 and fire 3 shots into the ceiling with 10 armed patrons in the crowd and see how many people get killed.

I say 2 dozen. Get the picture?

I have to say, it would be pretty interesting. I know you're anti-gun Johnny, so you naturally assume that all gun owners are idiots eager to get their gun off, but I don't think this would happen. Since you've probably only had experience with guns in movies and video games (like most gun-control advocates) let me share some basic gun-safety rules I learned from about age 9 starting with my BB gun and a bit later in hunter's safety class that apply to this situation:

-Never point a gun at anything you wouldn't want to shoot.

-Never shoot at anything without knowing what is BEHIND that object.

-Always clearly identify a target before shooting it

-Always be sure others are not near the target or the muzzle of your gun

Next is a lesson from CCW class:

-Escape or avoiding conflict is always the best option

-Never use deadly force (a gun) unless your life or someone else's life is in danger

-Be sure you are not making the situation worse by using deadly force, whether that is escalating the situation, or hurting innocent people.

Because of these lessons, CCW has an excellent safety record. MOST people who have CCWs would not just stand up and start spraying bullets like an idiot. Is it possible? Sure. It's also possible that Police could act like idiots and shoot innocent people:

In LA: LAPD, Torrance Police Shot At Innocent People In Frenzied Hunt For Former Cop Christopher Dorner

In NYC: Was The NYPD Responsible For 10 Of The 11 People Shot Yesterday? | Zero Hedge

My point is we're all humans, we all make mistakes and we all might interpret that situation a little differently. But we still have the right to defend ourselves.

I have to be honest, when I heard about the CO theater shooting, I didn't think that was a situation where a CCW-holder could have done much. You've got a dark theater, with dozens of people panicking and (supposedly) smoke grenades. The guy is ripping-off hundreds of rounds a minute (supposedly had a Slidefire stock). It was probably over before anyone realized what was happening. And it would be pretty tough to single the shooter out and stop him amidst the chaos. BUT I wouldn't blame someone for trying. If I DID happen to see him and I had a clear shot from a reasonable distance, hell yes I'd take it! It's better than just waiting to die!

Also, remember most of these guys are cowards and the minute they know someone else has a gun, they're likely to just shoot themselves, like the guy at the mall in Oregon. I'm not sure if the shooter would even notice in that dark theater, but you never know.

 

[SV_Dude]

I'm not suggesting a blaze of fire by any means. But as stated above, the shooter is looking for mass casualties. Move away from the crowd and hopefully the opportunity to put down the threat will present itself. There are a hundred scenarios but bottom line it comes down to a judgement call on how to protect yourself and others if you can. I'm not trying to sell myself as a hero either, I'm just hoping that if the time ever comes that I will do the right thing regardless of fear. I can tell you from personal experience of being in a fire fight over seas, my first instinct was to put down the threat and make sure I had accountability of all my guys. I can only hope that I would do the same thing if something crazy happens stateside or anywhere near me.

 

[JohnnyT]

I have to say, it would be pretty interesting. I know you're anti-gun Johnny, so you naturally assume that all gun owners are idiots eager to get their gun off, but I don't think this would happen. Since you've probably only had experience with guns in movies and video games (like most gun-control advocates) let me share some basic gun-safety rules I learned from about age 9 starting with my BB gun and a bit later in hunter's safety class that apply to this situation:

-Never point a gun at anything you wouldn't want to shoot.

-Never shoot at anything without knowing what is BEHIND that object.

-Always clearly identify a target before shooting it

-Always be sure others are not near the target or the muzzle of your gun

Next is a lesson from CCW class:

-Escape or avoiding conflict is always the best option

-Never use deadly force (a gun) unless your life or someone else's life is in danger

-Be sure you are not making the situation worse by using deadly force, whether that is escalating the situation, or hurting innocent people.

Because of these lessons, CCW has an excellent safety record. MOST people who have CCWs would not just stand up and start spraying bullets like an idiot. Is it possible? Sure. It's also possible that Police could act like idiots and shoot innocent people:

In LA: LAPD, Torrance Police Shot At Innocent People In Frenzied Hunt For Former Cop Christopher Dorner

In NYC: Was The NYPD Responsible For 10 Of The 11 People Shot Yesterday? | Zero Hedge

My point is we're all humans, we all make mistakes and we all might interpret that situation a little differently. But we still have the right to defend ourselves.

I have to be honest, when I heard about the CO theater shooting, I didn't think that was a situation where a CCW-holder could have done much. You've got a dark theater, with dozens of people panicking and (supposedly) smoke grenades. The guy is ripping-off hundreds of rounds a minute (supposedly had a Slidefire stock). It was probably over before anyone realized what was happening. And it would be pretty tough to single the shooter out and stop him amidst the chaos. BUT I wouldn't blame someone for trying. If I DID happen to see him and I had a clear shot from a reasonable distance, hell yes I'd take it! It's better than just waiting to die!

Also, remember most of these guys are cowards and the minute they know someone else has a gun, they're likely to just shoot themselves, like the guy at the mall in Oregon. I'm not sure if the shooter would even notice in that dark theater, but you never know.

I respect people's rights to own, use, whatever a gun. Any gun. I just want you thoroughly checked out ..... Regularly. Not interested in arguing.

You're right.... I do not like them..... But I can imagine having one.

Lessons? Throw them out the window. Don't compare most people to your responsible self. Too many are not. Humans are highly emotional. 6 or 7 of those 10 people will likely lose control whether its dark or not. In a state where u can ccw, there will likely be many more than 10 in a crowd of 200.

Very, very toxic and deadly situation...... And all someone did is open the door, fire a few shots to the ceiling, leave, and get an ice cream cone. Many will die in the chaos.

 

[bofa]

Nice.

Be interesting test to have someone come into a theatre of 200 and fire 3 shots into the ceiling with 10 armed patrons in the crowd and see how many people get killed.

I say 2 dozen. Get the picture?

I seriously doubt it, but let me know when you get some facts.

I will throw my underwear at him...but am no hero. Sorry guys. Me and my family come first.



On a more serious note, this comparison is not valid. The possum is not firing back at you, trying to kill you...and your stress level is much higher with the theater shooting. The possum is also not wearing body armor. Unless you're a sniper for the NAVY SEALs, your aim is going to be way off your normal gun range accuracy. Don't forget, there will be people rushing around you, bumping into you, etc...not even close to the environment you described above with the possum. And like you said, there was no one else around the possum. Put your friend behind that possum and you think that your nerves and aim will be just as good??????

I really discourage anyone from doing what you and SV are suggesting. The theater shooting ain't the gun range.

I was not comparing the possum to the theater incident, I was just pointing out that it could prove useful to become accurate at various distances. You can get 3 ft from a rabid possum if you want to though.

SV and I are not suggesting anything to anyone (okay I did suggest throwing the snow caps). We are simply discussing our train of thought in that circumstance.

Tell Holmes that the theater isn't the range. The world isn't perfect and sometimes we need people to fight the good fight BEFORE others needlessly die. I don't go looking for trouble but you won't find me near an exit with a gunshot to the back either.

 

[bofa]

I respect people's rights to own, use, whatever a gun. Any gun. I just want you thoroughly checked out ..... Regularly. Not interested in arguing.

You're right.... I do not like them..... But I can imagine having one.

Lessons? Throw them out the window. Don't compare most people to your responsible self. Too many are not. Humans are highly emotional. 6 or 7 of those 10 people will likely lose control whether its dark or not. In a state where u can ccw, there will likely be many more than 10 in a crowd of 200.

Very, very toxic and deadly situation...... And all someone did is open the door, fire a few shots to the ceiling, leave, and get an ice cream cone. Many will die in the chaos.

Just when you seem to be applying logic, you begin to pull numbers out of your dairy aire. I won't do the same thing to argue against you, but I will just offer this... every single CWP holder I know is an intelligent individual and takes that responsibility seriously. I would trust them with a gun before I would trust someone that doesn't have their CWP. Your fear-mongering is utter crap and you know it.

 

[SV_Dude]

This is the beast that will own my night stand and truck. I got the xd9 with a ncstar laser/light combo. It was a hard decision between the xd9 and the xdm9 comp but the comps seem easier to come by so I can pick one up later if I want. The store just put the xd9 on the shelf a few hours before I got it and there were lots of guys drooling all over it... I feel like I made a good purchase today.

 

[JohnnyT]

Just when you seem to be applying logic, you begin to pull numbers out of your dairy aire. I won't do the same thing to argue against you, but I will just offer this... every single CWP holder I know is an intelligent individual and takes that responsibility seriously. I would trust them with a gun before I would trust someone that doesn't have their CWP. Your fear-mongering is utter crap and you know it.

Hey bud, I gotta laugh because i somehow fear little and yet take public transport to midtown Manhattan for 3 hours daily among more races, creeds, and colors on one subway car than you'll see in a month. The picture I painted can exist in places like your neck of the woods, not mine.

Of course my numbers are out my butt, but it's certainly food for thought and probably not far off....and you know it.

Enjoy your movie.....while packing......like a dozen or more other people also carrying in that room with you who you DON'T know.....in your body armor......munching your popcorn. Sounds like a delightful evening.

I'll take the subway on New Years Eve over that any day.

 

[Atlanta_man]

It's great to have so many excellent choices in guns.
Too bad about ammo !

 

[aha2988]

Hey bud, I gotta laugh because i somehow fear little and yet take public transport to midtown Manhattan for 3 hours daily among more races, creeds, and colors on one subway car than you'll see in a month. The picture I painted can exist in places like your neck of the woods, not mine.

Of course my numbers are out my butt, but it's certainly food for thought and probably not far off....and you know it.

Enjoy your movie.....while packing......like a dozen or more other people also carrying in that room with you who you DON'T know.....in your body armor......munching your popcorn. Sounds like a delightful evening.

I'll take the subway on New Years Eve over that any day.

looks like we got ourselves a bad ass over here..

 

[KCcarguy]

Hey bud, I gotta laugh because i somehow fear little and yet take public transport to midtown Manhattan for 3 hours daily among more races, creeds, and colors on one subway car than you'll see in a month. The picture I painted can exist in places like your neck of the woods, not mine.

Of course my numbers are out my butt, but it's certainly food for thought and probably not far off....and you know it.

Enjoy your movie.....while packing......like a dozen or more other people also carrying in that room with you who you DON'T know.....in your body armor......munching your popcorn. Sounds like a delightful evening.

I'll take the subway on New Years Eve over that any day.

So, everyone on the subway is a nice guy and no one is armed? You sure? What does race and creed have to do with anything? There are bad guys in every group/ race/ creed. Are you implying that you're brave for spending time around people who are different from you?

 

[bofa]

Hey bud, I gotta laugh because i somehow fear little and yet take public transport to midtown Manhattan for 3 hours daily among more races, creeds, and colors on one subway car than you'll see in a month. The picture I painted can exist in places like your neck of the woods, not mine.

Of course my numbers are out my butt, but it's certainly food for thought and probably not far off....and you know it.

Enjoy your movie.....while packing......like a dozen or more other people also carrying in that room with you who you DON'T know.....in your body armor......munching your popcorn. Sounds like a delightful evening.

I'll take the subway on New Years Eve over that any day.

The only reason you feel safe every day is because of numbers. More people means you are less likely to be singled out and that there are more witnesses in case something does go down. I bet you lay low on those commutes too. I bet you don't interact with 99% of the people you "see". That doesn't make you special and it doesn't make you safe. You are living an illusion. It's nice and quiet until the one time you catch the wrong persons eye or just end up in the wrong place at the wrong time. Violence happens everywhere... just flip on the news and you will see your crappy state and its high profile neighbor are no exception.

The only question you need to ask yourself is this -When the time comes, would I rather have the necessary tools and a fighting chance to defend my life and the lives of those around me or would I rather cower behind something or run and just hope the attacker doesn't see me and wasn't specifically after me. It's okay to be the latter, just don't expect that from me.

I'm the meantime save your fake statistics and ill-conceived theories for your fellow gun fearing statesmen. It's even more amusing that you admit they are out of your ass but continue to defend them as if they are still somehow valid. That crap doesn't fly here and you should have learned that by now, unless you enjoy getting called out.

 

[bofa]

SV - how do you like the ncstar so far? I've heard mixed reviews about their products.. but then again I hear that about almost all products. I've also read that red and even green lasers are problematic in cold environments. I may buy a few different kinds once I get there to test them out this winter.

 

[JohnnyT]

So, everyone on the subway is a nice guy and no one is armed? You sure? What does race and creed have to do with anything? There are bad guys in every group/ race/ creed. Are you implying that you're brave for spending time around people who are different from you?

Are you implying that I'm implying?

All of those people are exactly the same as me.

Brave? According you your train of thought, I'm crazy and anything BUT brave. Because I'm AFRAID of a gun, right?

 

[JohnnyT]

looks like we got ourselves a bad ass over here..

Define "bad ass".

 

[LandCruiser]

SV - how do you like the ncstar so far? I've heard mixed reviews about their products.. but then again I hear that about almost all products. I've also read that red and even green lasers are problematic in cold environments. I may buy a few different kinds once I get there to test them out this winter.

I bought an NC star green laser thingy for my G30 because it was cheap.

Calibrated it, it was off by a bit at 25, by a lot at 50.

Seemed to work much better on my Colt Rail Gun, because steel frames don't flex as much.

Can see it in bright sunlight, not sure why you'd want to, but you can.