steezemcqueen
Moderator
They are fine to be used on the road as well. We don't trailer our rigs so if we are going wheeling in Moab, we drive our rigs there and drive them home.
Lotus CV Axles are here!
- Thread starter ToyTec Lifts
- Start date
They are fine to be used on the road as well. We don't trailer our rigs so if we are going wheeling in Moab, we drive our rigs there and drive them home.
ATCyotadude
New member
Did you reply from a flip phone?!
Yeap
techno
New member
Ok, agreed. I just don't like the fear mongering tactic that some have used as a deterrent for buying this product.
So I guess we saying go big or stay home when you upgrade to these "aka must have a solid front Diffy".
scottyb
New member
I just wanted to say thanks to Lotus for making these. It's great to see our aftermarket expand. I honestly don't think $500 is too much. It's a small batch, niche market item. That's just how it goes. You take all the 4runner owners, then you take the small percentage that wheel them, then you take the even smaller percentage that wheel them hard enough to need these axles. The small numbers drive up the cost, it's nothing new. I'm just glad they exist for purchase and there is another option for the person who has upgraded everything on their ifs and is still blowing cvs.
For what it's worth, I paid $60 for my front diff at the pull and pay when I replaced it. But yeah, doing that on the trail and carrying an extra front diff would suck a little more than replacing a cv. Regardless, I'm glad these are available. Thanks guys!
For what it's worth, I paid $60 for my front diff at the pull and pay when I replaced it. But yeah, doing that on the trail and carrying an extra front diff would suck a little more than replacing a cv. Regardless, I'm glad these are available. Thanks guys!
J-money$$$
New member
i wish there was an outer cage kit, but either way hopefully they hold up. too rich for my blood. Still a cool product.
Come test them down at the hammers. My buddy has been running sledge hammer with an ifs taco and destroying cv's. i would like to see if they could hold up.
Come test them down at the hammers. My buddy has been running sledge hammer with an ifs taco and destroying cv's. i would like to see if they could hold up.
gannonrt
New member
I'm not going to jump into the weeds of this argument but do want to comment on NelsonMD's general description of machine component design. My company makes mechanical cooling equipment and we do follow design practices as he describes here. As we move from prototype to full product release we have a full FMEA (Failure Mode Effect Analysis) process to validate that we did actually build a product that has predictable and easily fixed failures under a wide range of conditions that the equipment may or may not ever experience. Since we carry the warranty and lawsuits cost money even if you're not liable, it is much less expensive to have a predictable failure. However, we don't typically follow do much examination of the other further up the chain of weak links after the point we design to fail. So NelsonMD's general statement regarding design is correct in my limited mechanical engineering experience.
Thats what I want to, I shot them a e-mail last night, we will see if they respond. Mybe if enough of us contact them we can get something going. Would you mind shooting them a e-mail?
J-money$$$
New member
yeah I'm down, It never hurts to ask.
glenyoshida
New member
I was out wheeling yesterday and one of the guys told me I should read up on this thread. I should have made some popcorn before sitting down to read all this. I'll try and help clear up some things.
Don't think of the axle as the holy grail of axles, something that makes your entire rig invincible, you a better wheeler, or makes you more attractive to women. It's simply an improvement in strength over the stock cage and race.
Think of it more like these analogies. You can have a rope with a piece of string holding the halves together or replace the string with a piece of synthetic line. The rest of the rope is the same strength it's just that you now have replaced the weak link.
Or it's similar to putting a 5 amp fuse in a 20 amp circuit. Sure the 5amp fuse pops early and easily but how about putting a 15amp fuse on that 20 amp circuit? More fun, less hassle.
I too am looking forward to the day when someone comes out with something better and cheaper than $1000 for a set. For now this was the best we could come up with. This isn't meant to be a profit center. We're sharing the axles because we would want others to do the same. We fronted the money, spent the time on the R&D, the testing, and the means of making it available for others to buy. When you are willing to risk your money & time to come up with something better and cheaper please share as well. We'll likely be one of your customers.
Don't think of the axle as the holy grail of axles, something that makes your entire rig invincible, you a better wheeler, or makes you more attractive to women. It's simply an improvement in strength over the stock cage and race.
Think of it more like these analogies. You can have a rope with a piece of string holding the halves together or replace the string with a piece of synthetic line. The rest of the rope is the same strength it's just that you now have replaced the weak link.
Or it's similar to putting a 5 amp fuse in a 20 amp circuit. Sure the 5amp fuse pops early and easily but how about putting a 15amp fuse on that 20 amp circuit? More fun, less hassle.
I too am looking forward to the day when someone comes out with something better and cheaper than $1000 for a set. For now this was the best we could come up with. This isn't meant to be a profit center. We're sharing the axles because we would want others to do the same. We fronted the money, spent the time on the R&D, the testing, and the means of making it available for others to buy. When you are willing to risk your money & time to come up with something better and cheaper please share as well. We'll likely be one of your customers.
glenyoshida
New member
1 year warranty on the axle but not the boots. If you run a 3” lift or less you will get much more life out of the boots. I have a 4” lift on my front end and I just accept that I have to get them rebooted more often because of that. With my 4” lift the convolutions don't rub on each other in straight or highway curves. The new axle boots do allow for a higher lift (compared to OEM) before the convolutions start wearing on each other.It's about time!
x2 on the warranty?
Has the axle bar or inner joint been upgraded as well, or is it just stock stuff?
If it is stock components, can you sell just the HD outer joint and boot?
The inner, mid, and outer shafts are all Toyota OEM. They have not been upgraded.
The main problem with selling just the joint is in the disassembly and reassembly of the axle. The new housing, cage, race, and bearings have the same splines so that part isn't isn't an issue but we use a press with custom fittings to pull the OEM CV apart. You might have luck hammering the stuff apart but damage is likely. I suppose you could also cut through the OEM cage so you don't need to build a special part for a puller. If you have a way to consistently disassemble the outer joint without damaging it then this would be a great thing. We'd prefer to just sell the outer joint. We looked into doing that first but thought it would be opening a can of worms. If you (or anyone else) can create a video showing how to disassemble and reassemble with the new components then I'd be willing to get you the parts at no cost to you (contact me first). Since some folks might be tempted to say they know how and then never get around to actually making the video then I'd probably want to charge for the parts and then refund the full amount once the video is made or the parts are returned to me.
glenyoshida
New member
I'm with ya, this axle is really intended for rock crawling, maximum suspension flex, or in situations where the joint angle of the CV reaches severe angles. It's not intended for wheelers that aren't interested in being able to push greater limits.
There are also some people that would rather have the added comfort and capability even if they don't intend to break axles.
I Colorado we can get used OEM axles here for $40 - $85 all day long. It's definitely way cheaper in the short term. Nowdays I can change an axle on the trail now in about 30 minutes (although it took me 3 hours the first time). Having the experience and the right tools helps a lot. Even though it's easy to change an axle I don't like how dangerous it is. I've never broken an axle on a level flat surface. It's always when I'm on some wack terrain or in snow conditions. I don't know about you guys but I don't know of a better way to change a CV without the use of a Hi-Lift while on the trail. Hi-Lifts are at times an irreplaceable tool but I am very aware of how dangerous they are.
After I broke my 10th axle I just got sick of it. I love to wheel, rock crawling is my drug of choice, and I wrench because it's a necessary part of wheeling. To the best of my knowledge Toyota OEM axles are still the best cheap replacement. Behind that it seems like people are having good luck with the NAPA axles.
In the long term it actually cost me more money to keep with the aftermarket and OEM axles.
I bought lifetime axles at Checker and Advanced autoparts. The Cardone axles (no longer available at Checker) broke easier than the OEM axles. The Mastercraft's had poorly heat treated inner shafts and I broke two off in the differential. On one trip we lost 6 hours of trail time in Moab trying to drill and tap that POS out of the differential because of that. The ones at Autozone, last I heard, are engineered so poorly that they lock up at full droop.
I broke another OEM axle on a trail and since it was on a slope and on snow covered ground it would have been stupid to try and use a Hi-Lift there. I winched out only to find that the shock load of the OEM axle breaking messed up my transfer case and I couldn't shift out of 4WD. I'm sure others have driven home with a broken CV as well but in my case the broken pieces in the axle happened to jam up and sent a 2nd shockload through the drivetrain and blew up my front differential. So in that trip I lost an axle, transfer case, and my front differential. It was a good excuse to regear and ad ARBs to the front and rear though
It's things like this that made it possible for me to justify spending the extra money on the stronger outer joint. I've never broken an OEM tripod and if it ain't broke then don't fix it right?
So true. There is always a weak link in a system. In this case the weak link depends on the geometry of the axle joints. The OEM axles with little angle on the joints are so strong that the axle shaft itself can break before the joint does. When you put severe angles on the joints then the axle itself starts to act as a lever on the ball bearing in the outer joint. This is what causes the edge of the cage to break or crack. One might have noticed that it seems like a minor obstacle broke the axle. Sometimes the cage is already broken or cracked and it wasn't noticed until the pieces moved around enough to start the popping/crunching sounds.
glenyoshida
New member
I've had them for about a year now and have been waiting to release them because I wanted to make sure they had some reasonable testing done. We've taken several trips out to Moab and here in Colorado but haven't broken one yet.
The photos you posted up of your grenaded CVs are great, you seem to really know how to break them
We haven't broken one yet and I'd say that you probably wheel even harder than we do. If you are interested in trying a set out at cost pricing then send me a PM. We can also work out a deal that if you don't want to keep them after a year and you send them back then I'll give you a full refund. I want to start gathering info on what part tends to fail next. Since the mid shaft is 25 mm and the inner shaft is 21mm at the C clip I suspect that it's the inner shaft at the splines that's next likely place to fail. That or the tripod. Only real world experience will tell though.
glenyoshida
New member
Pretty much why these were created. I got tired of changing axles out. It gets real old after a while. FYI though I broke 2 axles while locked, the other 8 were open with open diffs. I have F&R lockers but I rarely use them. I enjoy conquering the obstacle a lot more when I get to tell people I ran it open. I admit it's a little bit twisted since I know it doesn't leave them the excuse to bypass the obstacle because they don't have a locker. But when you are a dude, and you have close friends, it kinda leads to that kind of thing
Yep, I agree, I'd like them to be less expensive too. I just don't know of a reasonable way to get the performance for cheaper.
glenyoshida
New member
Yeah, they are good for on-road use. Like the OEM axles just make sure your boots stay intact. Since they are chromoly I'd say it's pretty safe to guess that the components will last even longer. Maybe one day someone will have enough miles on them to verify.
Sorry bud, no plans at the moment but it's not ruled out.
Dirtco
New member
Does that cover the factory Toyota inner joint and bar, or just the HD outer joint? I'm not really concerned about the boots, I only have 2-2.5" of lift.
How about this...
One ARB + 35's + One big rock = One CV ready for an upgrade!
Seriously though, I see what your talking about. I have a couple spares so I will take a look at one and see what I can come up with. I know a couple tricks to separate a birfield from an axle shaft, it's pretty much the same concept and I’ve done that several times. I will let you know what I come up with…
