Making A Change - Built JK to Trail???

[GoBlueBradW]

I have severely injured my back and my 07 JK Unlimited that is lifted and on 37"s isn't going to work any longer. So, I am in the market for something that is off-road capable, has a power seat and rides better than the above mentioned vehicle, hence my interest in a Trail Edition. That said I am making this post to find out very specific information and get some questions answered in order to be sure this is the right vehicle for me. I have used the search function on this forum but it isn't providing (or I am not using it correctly) the information that I am seeking. So, on we go.....

1. As stated I am need of something that will ride nice on the road but is equally capable off road. I have looked at Icon, ToyTec, Daystar, etc. but am unsure as to which rides the softest on road. I want to be sure that when I go over a large bump it is properly absorbed and spread throughout the suspension components. I had about $4,800 in my lift on my JK so I am not afraid to spend the money, that is, if it's necessary. All that said, what are your "set-up" suggestions?

2. For the guys running 33" tires with proper clearance what is the height from the ground to the but portion of the drivers seat?

3. All Jeeps, when properly lifted and run large tires end up getting re-geared to keep the RPM range in check and improve gas mileage. Is this needed in the new 4runner?

I think that this is a good starting point but I am sure to come up with more, in detail questions once I start receiving replies. I appreciate your assistance with this and putting up with how anal I am. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[BigredTEX]

Answering your questions in order:

1. There are many options out there for lifting a T4R, from adjustable coil overs to different spring options within a particular brand. I have an OME setup with the stiffest spring option. It is quite stiff. If I loaded the truck up with bumpers, a winch, sliders and everything else available it would ride better, but I haven't added those items yet. Until then I have to live with it or retrofit a softer spring.

2. I have 3 inches of lift and 33" tires. I can't find my tape measure at the moment (my kids have been in my tool box again), but it is a big step up into the vehicle and the seat is higher than my butt. It's not a simple step into and out of the truck.

3. I am considering a gear change. The truck doesn't lack power in 4L, but it is really noticeable on the highway. The torque peak is up around 3,500 RPM and cruising at 70 MPH only turns about 2,100 RPM. It is constantly shifting between 5th and 4th, and sometimes down to 3rd.

Having said all that I really love the truck and how it is set up. Off road capabilities are equivalent to my friend's Rubicon. Took it to Ouray this summer and was really impressed.

 

[Intruder]

1. I've got Radflo coilovers and don't find they're harsh on the street. My suggestion is to talk to a place that specializes in selling Toyota suspension and see what they suggest. I think a lot of the higher end suspension systems out there are fairly close in ride/capability anyhow.

2. Not sure the exact height, but if you're going to take it off road, I assume you're going to put sliders on it. BudBuilt's bump out sliders come out far enough that they can be used as a step. Add 3M grip tape or even skateboard grip tape to the top for some added piece of mind.

3. I'm exactly the opposite from BigRedTEX on this one. I don't feel the truck is underpowered even with lift, 33s, full set of BudBuilt skid plates, sliders, and RTT. With all my camping and recovery gear in the truck it weighs 5800 lbs and if I put the pedal to the mat it'll accelerate up a hill on the highway no problem, just not at the same rate as a Porsche. At least that's what my butt dyno says...

I think one of the biggest differences you might notice from your JK other than the better on-road feel and handling is that the 4Runner doesn't feel anywhere near as tippy when you're off camber.

 

[DannyLlama]

I have severely injured my back and my 07 JK Unlimited that is lifted and on 37"s isn't going to work any longer.

Glad your OK.. That sounds like a great story over a beer.
Though, I will have to settle for a forum post. :snacker:

 

[GrantK]

I too have a messed up back (3 lumbar vertebra have been fused) and find the TE w/KDSS just fine for my driving. I would expect it to be a little rough on my back doing long, all day expressway drives unless I stopped every hour or so to stretch a little. I have installed 285/70-17 MT tires and am in the process of installing an ICON stage 6, 2" lift and suspension system and think that so far it has improved the ride. (I've installed the rear shocks, low trailing arms and track bar so far).

1) See above
2) I haven't installed the lift yet and I'm 6' and can just barely slide up onto the seat right now without stepping up. Once the lift is done I expect to use my sliders as a step.
3) I find the stock gearing fine for both on and off road. I have no problem leaving stop lights and on freeway ramps keeping up and even out accelerating typical traffic flow. While it's not a hot rod it has more than enough power.

 

[Gerdo]

I'm sure that you relize that a 5th gen 4runner will not be as capable as a lifted JK on 37s. Solid front axle to IFS. Wheeling IFS, coming from a solid axle, will take some getting used to. Exterior size wise they are probably close. The 4runner does have a stronger engine than the Mini van engine in the early JKs. The 4runner will be more comfortable.

 

[Stifler]

night and day. I went form 07 JKU to 11 T4R SR5.... great ride but no where near as capable off road.... but I am like you I am not crawling anymore

 

[Greg_Canada]

You guys that complain of lack over power with 33's should drive a 80's / 90's yota' with 33's... LOL...

 

[GoBlueBradW]

Answering your questions in order:

1. There are many options out there for lifting a T4R, from adjustable coil overs to different spring options within a particular brand. I have an OME setup with the stiffest spring option. It is quite stiff. If I loaded the truck up with bumpers, a winch, sliders and everything else available it would ride better, but I haven't added those items yet. Until then I have to live with it or retrofit a softer spring.

2. I have 3 inches of lift and 33" tires. I can't find my tape measure at the moment (my kids have been in my tool box again), but it is a big step up into the vehicle and the seat is higher than my butt. It's not a simple step into and out of the truck.

3. I am considering a gear change. The truck doesn't lack power in 4L, but it is really noticeable on the highway. The torque peak is up around 3,500 RPM and cruising at 70 MPH only turns about 2,100 RPM. It is constantly shifting between 5th and 4th, and sometimes down to 3rd.

Having said all that I really love the truck and how it is set up. Off road capabilities are equivalent to my friend's Rubicon. Took it to Ouray this summer and was really impressed.

Thanks for the reply. I am familiar with OME as they make a decent JK lift as well but I found there "soft" spring is still harsh.

In regards to gearing, what is factory? Also, once lifted wouldnt you use a programmer to recalibrate your transmissions shift points for the larger tire size?

1. I've got Radflo coilovers and don't find they're harsh on the street. My suggestion is to talk to a place that specializes in selling Toyota suspension and see what they suggest. I think a lot of the higher end suspension systems out there are fairly close in ride/capability anyhow.

I live in Colorado so the only company that I am aware of that specializes in Toyotas is ToyTec so I guess they will be my first stop. Radflo's shocks are completely re-buildable if I remember correctly. Thanks for the suggestion.

2. Not sure the exact height, but if you're going to take it off road, I assume you're going to put sliders on it. BudBuilt's bump out sliders come out far enough that they can be used as a step. Add 3M grip tape or even skateboard grip tape to the top for some added piece of mind.

Still torn on sliders as I am 6'5" and about 265lbs so I can pretty much step into most vehicles. Sliders would be nice for the misses and others that may potentially drive my vehicle. Good tip on the tape.
3. I'm exactly the opposite from BigRedTEX on this one. I don't feel the truck is underpowered even with lift, 33s, full set of BudBuilt skid plates, sliders, and RTT. With all my camping and recovery gear in the truck it weighs 5800 lbs and if I put the pedal to the mat it'll accelerate up a hill on the highway no problem, just not at the same rate as a Porsche. At least that's what my butt dyno says...

Nice, that is good to know. I would much rather spend the money on other accessories than gearing.

I think one of the biggest differences you might notice from your JK other than the better on-road feel and handling is that the 4Runner doesn't feel anywhere near as tippy when you're off camber.

Glad your OK.. That sounds like a great story over a beer.
Though, I will have to settle for a forum post. :snacker:

Unfortunately, it really isn't a great story although I wish it was. Just too much heavy lifting over my life and now I have a fractured upper back and my lowest three discs are degenerating.

I too have a messed up back (3 lumbar vertebra have been fused) and find the TE w/KDSS just fine for my driving. I would expect it to be a little rough on my back doing long, all day expressway drives unless I stopped every hour or so to stretch a little. I have installed 285/70-17 MT tires and am in the process of installing an ICON stage 6, 2" lift and suspension system and think that so far it has improved the ride. (I've installed the rear shocks, low trailing arms and track bar so far).

Nice, Icon is at the top of my list right now. Please keep me posted as to ride quality and so forth!

1) See above
2) I haven't installed the lift yet and I'm 6' and can just barely slide up onto the seat right now without stepping up. Once the lift is done I expect to use my sliders as a step.
3) I find the stock gearing fine for both on and off road. I have no problem leaving stop lights and on freeway ramps keeping up and even out accelerating typical traffic flow. While it's not a hot rod it has more than enough power.

Again, goood to know. Even with 5.38 gears and performance parts of my JK it was still underpowered in my opinion.

I'm sure that you relize that a 5th gen 4runner will not be as capable as a lifted JK on 37s. Solid front axle to IFS. Wheeling IFS, coming from a solid axle, will take some getting used to. Exterior size wise they are probably close. The 4runner does have a stronger engine than the Mini van engine in the early JKs. The 4runner will be more comfortable.

Yeah, I am aware of that. I really don't do crazy things anymore so I feel that the TE will be perfect for my activities.

night and day. I went form 07 JKU to 11 T4R SR5.... great ride but no where near as capable off road.... but I am like you I am not crawling anymore

Nice ride! This just made my decision a little easier.

I will take some time next week and stop by Toytec as well as place a call directly to Icon. Hopefully, by the end of next week I will have a build list for you guys to review and critique. I really appreciate everyones help and if you have any other suggestions please feel free to chime in.

 

[Stifler]

if you got the cash go ICON. If toytec I wouldn't go anything less than the the ultimate kit. You will enjoy the 4R and even tough some people complain about lack of power it is better than that hamster wheel we had in our JKs!

 

[GoBlueBradW]

if you got the cash go ICON. If toytec I wouldn't go anything less than the the ultimate kit. You will enjoy the 4R and even tough some people complain about lack of power it is better than that hamster wheel we had in our JKs!

Thanks for the heads up. I already sent an email to Icon and Toytec with specific questions so that will tell who I'll go with. I'll be sure to keep everyone posted.

 

[mallory25]

Can't add much else to everyone else thoughts. But best wishes on purchase!
Will say I think the 4runner is probably your best choice of capable off SUV's. Body on frame and all. Course a hemi ( 6.1L mmmmmmm....) would be nice(grand Cherokee). Course don't think there is an owner on here who wouldn't like a v8 option. But anyway it's a great rig.

 

[guppy]

I agree with Stifler... The ride is much smoother in the T4R! I traded in my 2008 JK for my 2010 SR5 since I didn't like heading up the mountains every weekend in 2nd gear, at red line, going 40 mph on I-70! The 4Runner has the power to get me over the pass'. Do I want more?... Hell Yes! But the power over the JK is significant.

For off-roading... the 4runner will not be as capable as your JK, but I am a firm believer that for most off-road terrain a skilled driver is more important than a fully modified vehicle.

 

[1000MPH]

I can barely stand driving over botts dots when my back flares up. Off road in anything would make it torture. If I had your decision and my back I would get a custom racing seat and keep the Jeep.

 

[Stifler]

nice Sahara Guppy...

 

[kbaum11]

Have any of you driven the same trails with both? If so, where is the 4runner trail lacking? I have a modded 2003 Sahara, not an unlimited and have not done this. Other than wheelbase and solid axles what were the differences you saw?

 

[Stifler]

Have any of you driven the same trails with both? If so, where is the 4runner trail lacking? I have a modded 2003 Sahara, not an unlimited and have not done this. Other than wheelbase and solid axles what were the differences you saw?

what more difference do you need? Unless you dump a crap load of loot in IFS you are never going to beat out SA. Maneuverability, weight. selectable front locker.... the Jeep just wins hands down with a lot less $$$$ to get there. Now with enough cash you can make a very capable 4r. there are a few on this forum that fit that profile.

 

[Greg_Canada]

what more difference do you need? Unless you dump a crap load of loot in IFS you are never going to beat out SA. Maneuverability, weight. selectable front locker.... the Jeep just wins hands down with a lot less $$$$ to get there. Now with enough cash you can make a very capable 4r. there are a few on this forum that fit that profile.

Sahara does not have lockers.

Most here are comparing a trail to a rubicon... the trail is likely as or more capable stock than a sahara. Rubicon beats the trail hands down off road though.

 

[evomind]

Sahara does not have lockers.

Most here are comparing a trail to a rubicon... the trail is likely as or more capable stock than a sahara. Rubicon beats the trail hands down off road though.

With or without lockers the straight axle is much more durable.

 

[Stifler]

Sahara does not have lockers.

Mine did... ARB... point was you can have a front locker and those mods and reasonable price

the trail is likely as or more capable stock than a sahara.

I wouldnt go that far, depends on what type of wheeling you are doing.... and knowing how to wheel is far more valuable than a rear locker