Nagging Steering / Brake Problem!

cbr900boy

cbr900boy

New member
So I have this nagging problem with my steering when I brake. When I quickly press the brakes, my steering wheel slightly turns to the left then corrects itself. When I slowly and gradually press the brakes this does not occur. I’ve “searched” far and wide and the only posts I could find where people have had similar problems were due to bad LCA bushings or alignment issues. I’ve addressed both these issues with no resolve. Another peculiar thing is that I’ve notice this after I did the Tundra brake upgrade. I thought maybe the driver’s side caliper was the issue so I replaced it with no resolve. I then replaced the passenger side with no resolve. I bled my whole braking system with a Motive bleeder with no resolve (no soft pedal like some people complain of). So here are the list of things I’ve done to the front end:

-TBU, 231mm (Napa), Rotor (OEM Toyota), Pads (OEM Toyota), SS Brake Lines (Wheelers)

-Whiteline Poly LCA Bushings

-Total Chaos UCAs with Poly Bushings
-ES Poly Steering Rack Bushings

-Steering Rack Guide Upgrade

-OEM Toyota LBJs, Inner and Outer Tie Rods

-Alignment is all in the green

My steering and suspension feels ROCK SOLID and drives better than new. The only thing I can think of that I didn’t replace are the support arms for the front diff, which I believe have rubber bushings in them. Does anyone know if these ever go bad and would it effect steering? Any input is greatly appreciated.

-Danny
 
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I have the identicle issue with my 02 sr5. However I have not done LCA bushings yet. From research I have done, it has pointed to the lca bushings... but oddly yours have been done. Will watch this thread and see if you find resolution and once I replace mine (I have whitelines ready to go) I will report back if it gets any better.

On another note, I had the issue before and after my TBU upgrade. I initially thought it was alignment or a sticky caliper, but had it aligned and issue is still there. Also ALL brakes are new including rear cylinders. No difference.
 
I have a similar issue, except mine goes to the right. I think I need to grease my caliper pins but I haven't got around to it.
 
I know you said you had it aligned, but what were the readings? You are in Pasadena, I know a lot of alignment shops in Pasadena, none I would recommend seriously though.

Caster is the most likely culprit if it is an alignment issue. Especially when bushing are worn, this includes upper arm bushings.

Also there is a way to check braking power on individual wheels. It requires a sort of brake dyno, which I only know of one in Miramar, quite a drive I think.

What WERE your caster readings?

:hungry:
 
IBallEngineer said:
I know you said you had it aligned, but what were the readings? You are in Pasadena, I know a lot of alignment shops in Pasadena, none I would recommend seriously though.

Caster is the most likely culprit if it is an alignment issue. Especially when bushing are worn, this includes upper arm bushings.

Also there is a way to check braking power on individual wheels. It requires a sort of brake dyno, which I only know of one in Miramar, quite a drive I think.

What WERE your caster readings?

:hungry:
Click to expand...

I recommend Island Tires in Pasadena, alignment was cheap and the guy was very knowledgeable. I paid around $60. I can't remember the exact numbers but the caster readings were in the red when I had my stock UCAs. When I installed my TC UCAs, they were back in the green.
 
just brain storming

I have not yet done the TBU but I did put on EBC Green pads. After doing so I had similar issue pulling to the left on hard braking and after hard braking would get a clunk sound at times From that side.
I pulled the pads, slightly sanded them and the rotors thinking my bedding in process was not good. I also regreassed the pins. Bled the brakes.
Rebedded my pads and my pull went away, but would come back, off and on my clunk was same. my breaking was good. Better than pads that came off.

finally thought better take it to a shop. Of course then it would all work good and no clunk, they could not find anything wrong, suspension all good, alignment good. tires good, still had the problem...off and on.
one day, while about a mile from the same tire shop the clunk was there. pulled in, they looked and heard it, felt it. Sticking piston in caliper. Causing the pads to hit at an angle and the clunk was pad slapping the piston back in...or so they said.
what they did was tell me I needed new calipers, but in the meantime, he pulled the pads out, hit the pedal then compressed the pistions, he said he did this several times. HE said try that, but be prepared for new calipers...and I thought ok time for TBU. 5 months and several thousand miles later...no problem.

however I know you said you replaced caliper thinking it was an issue

Idea #2...did you bleed master cylinde

Idea #3
shocks and springs. weak springs on the driver side front. Hit the brakes hard, truck dives to driver side....just a thought

side note......ebc greens are dusty
 
3bears said:
just brain storming

I have not yet done the TBU but I did put on EBC Green pads. After doing so I had similar issue pulling to the left on hard braking and after hard braking would get a clunk sound at times From that side.
I pulled the pads, slightly sanded them and the rotors thinking my bedding in process was not good. I also regreassed the pins. Bled the brakes.
Rebedded my pads and my pull went away, but would come back, off and on my clunk was same. my breaking was good. Better than pads that came off.

finally thought better take it to a shop. Of course then it would all work good and no clunk, they could not find anything wrong, suspension all good, alignment good. tires good, still had the problem...off and on.
one day, while about a mile from the same tire shop the clunk was there. pulled in, they looked and heard it, felt it. Sticking piston in caliper. Causing the pads to hit at an angle and the clunk was pad slapping the piston back in...or so they said.
what they did was tell me I needed new calipers, but in the meantime, he pulled the pads out, hit the pedal then compressed the pistions, he said he did this several times. HE said try that, but be prepared for new calipers...and I thought ok time for TBU. 5 months and several thousand miles later...no problem.

however I know you said you replaced caliper thinking it was an issue

Idea #2...did you bleed master cylinde

Idea #3
shocks and springs. weak springs on the driver side front. Hit the brakes hard, truck dives to driver side....just a thought

side note......ebc greens are dusty
Click to expand...

-I did not bleed the M/S but used the Motive Bleeder for the whole system, brakes feel solid.

-My suspension setup is Sonoran Steel 1.2 less than a year old.

Just Curious, why do you think it's the master cylinder?
 
well you should be good on those sides of the equation.

could it be in the ABS unit and air in that from bleeding ?

wish you a easy fix
 
Has anyone ever replaced these support arms for the front diff? They supposedly have rubber bushings in them that are "fused" to the metal so they are not replaceable. The whole arm must be replaced.

04.jpg
 
Intial thought is a stuck caliper but since you replaced those, could probably rule that out. I had the same problem and was able to solve it. I replaced the lower control arm bushings twice. Once with poly bushings, and once again with stock toyota bushings. Stock bushings solved the problem.
 
saurkraut said:
Intial thought is a stuck caliper but since you replaced those, could probably rule that out. I had the same problem and was able to solve it. I replaced the lower control arm bushings twice. Once with poly bushings, and once again with stock toyota bushings. Stock bushings solved the problem.
Click to expand...

I had this problem even with my stock LCA bushings.
 
Ok guys, I pulled the trigger and ordered new front diff support arms. I figured the bushings had to be toast after 260k and 17 years. One of the Tacoma guys did state these things do go bad. Based on the picture below, they in fact do have rubber bushings in them. I figured that because they are attached to the front diff which is attached to the cv axles which are attached to the wheels, this could be the cause. My logic may be way off but at this point what do I have to loose. I will definitely update you guys if this fixes the problem. BTW I love Camelback Toyota, my local stealership wanted to throw me over the barrel with no lube.

http://suvtruckparts.com/buy-used/1999-Toyota-4-Runner-Driver-DIFFERENTIAL-SUPPORT-BRACKET-5238035050-5238035050/13494-1
 
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cbr900boy said:
-I did not bleed the M/S but used the Motive Bleeder for the whole system, brakes feel solid.

-My suspension setup is Sonoran Steel 1.2 less than a year old.

Just Curious, why do you think it's the master cylinder?
Click to expand...

because you said you have bled the brakes but did not mention master cylinder. Sometimes....you got to bleed everything.

just brainstorming
 
What condition were they in? Mine were shot and that is the reason I replaced them. There isn't too many other things it could be. I don't think it would be the diff arm bushings. With how much the lower control arm was moving laterally front to back by just prying on it, with the weight of the truck and under braking, especially at highway speeds, that would cause the steering to be affected one way or the other. My passenger side LCA bushings were way worse than the driver side and I think that is why it pulled to the left. I replaced every bushing on the truck that is replaceable with the LCA's being the last ones since they are such a PITA to do, let alone twice. As soon as I put new stock bushings in, brakes straight as could be expected. I even thought it could be the panhard bar after being lifted since that changes the tracking of the rear axle a little. So, I put in a toytec adjustable. The problem was very slightly better. Not enough to say it made a difference but still pretty bad.
 
3bears said:
because you said you have bled the brakes but did not mention master cylinder. Sometimes....you got to bleed everything.

just brainstorming
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, I might have to try that. Do I have to bleed the whole system again after I attach the hard lines back on the master cylinder?
 
Another theory... rear control arms / upper or lower. If they have slop / play and brakes are applied, the axle could shift in effect giving a tiny bit of rear steering?

I am trying to remember if the wheel has instant pull or if the gunner just dives left a bit when hitting the brakes. It is on the wifes gunner so will have to drive it and see tonight.

Edit: Actually I am more for this idea now... Now that I think about it, I end up turning the wheel a bit to the right to compensate for the pull. This really pushes me to the rear control arm bushings.
 
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I wish this was as easy as telling you to replace the fuel pump.

I have to ask whether you did the steering rack upgrade before or after the TBU?
 
saurkraut said:
What condition were they in? Mine were shot and that is the reason I replaced them. There isn't too many other things it could be. I don't think it would be the diff arm bushings. With how much the lower control arm was moving laterally front to back by just prying on it, with the weight of the truck and under braking, especially at highway speeds, that would cause the steering to be affected one way or the other. My passenger side LCA bushings were way worse than the driver side and I think that is why it pulled to the left. I replaced every bushing on the truck that is replaceable with the LCA's being the last ones since they are such a PITA to do, let alone twice. As soon as I put new stock bushings in, brakes straight as could be expected. I even thought it could be the panhard bar after being lifted since that changes the tracking of the rear axle a little. So, I put in a toytec adjustable. The problem was very slightly better. Not enough to say it made a difference but still pretty bad.
Click to expand...

Surprisingly, the stock LCA bushings were not as bad as I thought. They still had some life in them. I figured that I was going to replace every part anyways since my rig had 260k miles when I bought it.
 
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