It's all back together, except for the skidplates, which I will reinstall after I clean all of the oil off of the engine. The valve cover is new, because I got stupid during the timing belt installation a few weeks ago, and didn't notice it wasn't in place correctly when I started torquing the bolts, and I cracked the cover. I replaced the passenger side cover then. So, not much to clean in there now.
Need help with mysterious major oil leak
- Thread starter Outrider
- Start date
It's all back together, except for the skidplates, which I will reinstall after I clean all of the oil off of the engine. The valve cover is new, because I got stupid during the timing belt installation a few weeks ago, and didn't notice it wasn't in place correctly when I started torquing the bolts, and I cracked the cover. I replaced the passenger side cover then. So, not much to clean in there now.
Another (and probably final) update:
Took it for a real test drive today. Every time I cranked it up after shutting it off, a huge plume of white smoke still comes out of the exhaust.
Got it back home and put it up on ramps. Was going to look for oil underneath it, after it cooled off some. 30 minutes later, there was a nice puddle of oil underneath it.
This is with a new passenger side valve cover, new PCV valve, new VC gaskets, new camshaft plug, all properly sealed, along with re-sealed half moons. New camshaft seals. New crankshaft seal. And a new water pump, radiator, radiator hoses, thermostat and drive belt thrown in for good measure.
I have had it with this complete POS vehicle. I think Toyota took a bad turn in '99. My wife's previous '99 Camry was a complete POS too (now she drives a Civic that I NEVER have to work on). So is my daughter's '03 Rav4. All of the above mentioned Toyotas did and do leak oil real bad.
On my T4R, I have spent over 60 hours in labor, and several hundred $ in parts recently. All for nothing. If hindsight were foresight, I would have sold this when it was running nicely, with a 6k past-due timing belt on it. I probably could have gotten at least $4-4.5k for it then. Now, it is leaking and smoking, and probably not worth even $2k, despite everything but the engine being really nice for a 20 year old vehicle.
Anyone who gets off on screwing with vehicles and trying to find mysterious problems, look for a good deal posted on a few websites soon (search in the metro Atlanta area on Craigslist and TheOutdoorsTrader). It's going up for sale when I get it cleaned up. For anyone who wants a project vehicle.
But I thank those who tried to help on this problem. It was a lost cause.
Took it for a real test drive today. Every time I cranked it up after shutting it off, a huge plume of white smoke still comes out of the exhaust.
Got it back home and put it up on ramps. Was going to look for oil underneath it, after it cooled off some. 30 minutes later, there was a nice puddle of oil underneath it.
This is with a new passenger side valve cover, new PCV valve, new VC gaskets, new camshaft plug, all properly sealed, along with re-sealed half moons. New camshaft seals. New crankshaft seal. And a new water pump, radiator, radiator hoses, thermostat and drive belt thrown in for good measure.
I have had it with this complete POS vehicle. I think Toyota took a bad turn in '99. My wife's previous '99 Camry was a complete POS too (now she drives a Civic that I NEVER have to work on). So is my daughter's '03 Rav4. All of the above mentioned Toyotas did and do leak oil real bad.
On my T4R, I have spent over 60 hours in labor, and several hundred $ in parts recently. All for nothing. If hindsight were foresight, I would have sold this when it was running nicely, with a 6k past-due timing belt on it. I probably could have gotten at least $4-4.5k for it then. Now, it is leaking and smoking, and probably not worth even $2k, despite everything but the engine being really nice for a 20 year old vehicle.
Anyone who gets off on screwing with vehicles and trying to find mysterious problems, look for a good deal posted on a few websites soon (search in the metro Atlanta area on Craigslist and TheOutdoorsTrader). It's going up for sale when I get it cleaned up. For anyone who wants a project vehicle.
But I thank those who tried to help on this problem. It was a lost cause.
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BamaDrewski
New member
Aerobat - sorry to hear this news. Sounds like you have done everything possible to identify and correct the problem. Sounds like you are "done" with the beast. Last thing however and it would be a quick visual check....
These rigs have an oil cooler on the driver side of the engine. There is a hose that runs off the thermostat housing to that cooler. You might want to just look and see if the oil cooler gasket has failed.......
These rigs have an oil cooler on the driver side of the engine. There is a hose that runs off the thermostat housing to that cooler. You might want to just look and see if the oil cooler gasket has failed.......
I will look into that tomorrow - thanks. It would be odd if it somehow failed, without me knowingly touching it, while replacing other things. But it would be nice to find something like that as being the cause of this leak.
If I get lucky and find the oil leak and fix it, then I still have it somehow dumping oil into my intake manifold, with a brand new valve cover, and a brand new PCV valve. I suppose it is possible that one or both of those are defective, however I have never in my 36 years of driving, had an engine dump oil into the intake manifold.
One other mystery still perplexes me. In the timing belt kit, there was an o-ring, about 1-1/4" diameter. There was no mention of its purpose in the kit, and I didn't run across one of that size while taking everything apart for the timing belt job.
What I do know is that I am not going to pull the transmission to replace a rear main crank seal, and I am not completely pulling apart the front of the engine again to replace a front crank seal, if that replaced seal happens to be the cause of this leak. Especially if I haven't seen a definite sign yet that the leak is from either place.
BamaDrewski
New member
An o-ring? I am wondering if that might be the thermostat gasket if the kit came with a new thermostat?
With respect to the oil in the intake manifold, on my 2000 T4r LTD (5VZFE) there is a rubber hose that comes into the air intake around the throttle bottle area. I have seen some oil residue there but not "pouring in" as you mention. Might be something else to check. Forgive my OCD but it would be great if one or some of us could help you tame the demon that is haunting your truck!
The kit didn't come with a thermostat, which I ordered separately. If I recall, a gasket came with the thermostat itself, and I used it. It was like an o-ring with a square cross section and a groove around it, rather than a normal o-ring with a round cross section.
Here is the timing belt kit. You can see two o-rings in the picture. I don't even recall what I used one of them for, but the larger one was left over.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=7212808&cc=1357455
Regarding the oil in the intake, I looked inside all hoses that go into the intake manifold, and didn't see fresh oil inside any of them.
I am a mechanical engineer by trade, with 40 years of experience working on cars, so you can probably imagine that this is driving me up the freaking wall.
BamaDrewski, I removed the skid plates again this morning. I didn't recall seeing any type of oil cooler down there, and didn't see one when I looked again this morning. Could you describe where this oil cooler is located?
Also for anyone here, the new leaked oil is on the passenger side of the engine, coming from the front, and I start seeing it up in the a/c compressor bracket area. Also, there is some at the rear, but that may have migrated from the front. Or it may be the both my front and rear crankshaft seals are leaking. But if the front were leaking, wouldn't there be some oil on the timing belt? The timing belt was bone-dry when I removed the timing cover last week.
I want to solve this problem and keep this vehicle another 10 years. But if I can't solve this oil leak and oil in the intake manifold (and smoking exhaust) soon, I will ditch this old POS. I am quite sick of working on it and getting nowhere.
With oil leaks, always start from the top and work your way down (read: gravity). If it's coming from the top passenger side front area, it's possible you may have rolled the camshaft seal when installing it. Rolled cam seals leak oil pretty heavily so that would honestly be the first place that I would look.
Good luck sir!
Good luck sir!
This has been a very long thread, but that point was already addressed. After removing the upper timing cover, I didn't see any oil trails behind it. But it is possible that an oil trail was hiding behind the rear metal timing cover, and I just couldn't see it. That does make the most sense, though.
edited to add: I did lube the inside of the shaft seals before I installed them. Not terribly likely that I rolled one or more of them, but it is possible. I would really, really rather not take every single thing apart again just to find out that it isn't leaking there.
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spartacus
Senior Member
you can try and use oil dye and a uv kit if you don't want to take a bunch of stuff or may be take it to a mechanic and let them diagnose. Being frustrated I understand but being PO'd at the truck is not going to help. You've tried your best maybe giving a good professional mechanic a shot might not be a bad idea at this point.
LittleCaesar
New member
Losing any coolant?
I understand the frustration. Been there.
I understand the frustration. Been there.
Coward
New member
So this is the oil cooler. I can see part of it some of your pictures and it looked dry. Not to mention, this is the drivers side and your leak is the passenger side.
A couple of questions that I did not see answered.
1-How does it run? Good as ever? Any hesitation or rough idle?
2-Did you remove the timing belt and cam gear again? To be sure the cam seal on the passenger side is not leaking?I believe if it were leaking it would leak behind or into the rear timing cover and hard to see with that rear cover on.
3- Did you verify correct routing of the vacuum hoses and IACV coolant lines yet?
4-Have you checked the coolant for traces of oil?
5- Compression test?
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I haven't lost any coolant that I have noticed.
What bothers me more than the oil leak is the oil in my intake manifold and the smoke every time I crank it
1) It runs fine, but it has had a low and somewhat rough idle (I presume rough because it is so low) for quite a while. That became noticeable after I replaced the fuel injectors a couple of years ago. It shows about 600-700 rpm on the dash tach at idle.
2) I haven't removed the timing belt and gears again. That would identify the leak, or lack thereof, positively. I have been trying to avoid taking everything apart again just to check, but it is looking like that might be the only way to be sure.
3) I checked hose routing a couple of times. Everything looks fine, but without some sort of diagram to compare it against, I really can't verify positively.
4) I haven't checked for oil in the coolant lately. I did a few years ago when I had a kit for that, when I was diagnosing what I thought was a blown head gasket. I either sold that kit, or have misplaced it. I will look around again for it. Wouldn't oil float to the top of the coolant in the radiator or radiator overflow tank?
5) I haven't checked compression.
Now I have some more things to check. Thanks.
LittleCaesar
New member
How old is the PCV? It seems you are experiencing major blow by. Also check the hose that runs off the back of the driver's side valve cover that connects to the intake to see if it has oil in it.
Almost certain that is the thermostat gasket....I bought an ASIN kit and mine looks just like that large gasket.
The PCV valve and that valve cover are brand new.
Ok - I just found this. A vacuum line I had disconnected to remove the intake manifold, and since it is way at the back, I didn't see it. It was loose. Inside the red oval in the picture. I am hoping that it being loose screwed up the vacuum system and caused oil to be blown or drawn into the intake manifold.
Does anyone think that one tiny hose being loose could cause that?
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Coward
New member
Idle sounds fine. As they age, the idle can be a little high or low due to friction with the linkage and bushings. Not usually a sign of an issue.
I don't think you can mix up the 3 hoses on the IACV. If you did, having a vacuum line routed to the coolant line would certainly cause something.
Other hoses could certainly be mismatched but I don't think they would cause oil consumption. White smoke is certainly indicative of either coolant or oil burn. The fact that it only happens at startup is curious. To me that indicates a slow leak from the head gasket. But it could be valve guides leaking oil.
Find that oil leak. It is going to be obvious as bad as it is. My money is on the front passenger cam seal.
thegipper
New member
If I were you, I'd be doing a leak down test. If your valve guides are leaking, you'll know. If your HG is leaking, you'll know.
If you have a compression issue, you'll know.
It's a simple test that will take 30 minutes. If everything checks out fine, I would be shocked....
Personally, I think you have two separate issues that are unrelated (smoke on start up and your oil leak).
If you have a compression issue, you'll know.
It's a simple test that will take 30 minutes. If everything checks out fine, I would be shocked....
Personally, I think you have two separate issues that are unrelated (smoke on start up and your oil leak).
Yep - I checked again, and all vacuum hose routing seems fine. I made a reply above that I found a loose vacuum hose, though. I'm hoping that might be the cause of oil in the intake.
I agree about the cam seal likely being the cause of the leak. By process of elimination, it couldn't be much else. I guess I need to go ahead and get all 3 front shaft seals again, take it all apart again, and then likely have the problem glaring at me. Seals are cheap.
