wnelax04sr5
New member
aint that the truth.
i know a lot of forums require new members be on the forum for a certain number of days or using it for a certain number of hours before posting. i know T120 has that
Need to Vent
- Thread starter anotherrunner83
- Start date
aint that the truth.
i know a lot of forums require new members be on the forum for a certain number of days or using it for a certain number of hours before posting. i know T120 has that
BlackWorksInc
New member
Something to mention is that as part of my work I actually search a lot of forums for information. I deal in a lot of used vehicles (mixed makes and models) and often times AllData is no where near as useful as cursory Google search for various issues I encounter, most times I don't even bother joining a forum because I can locate that information easily (i.e. do a search for "4th Gen 4Runner HeadGasket and I see a large quantity of issues related to that, lets me know I may be looking in the right direction, or some DTC may be caused by some mundane thing no one would thing of checking, ect.) That's sort of what drives most people up the wall on this forum, is the constant reposting of the same issues a lot of times multiple times a day. God knows if made a new account, posted a thread and sat around waiting for a response even half the time I used the internet at work, I'd never finish diagnosing some of these vehicles. I often feel frustrated both at and for the posters when they post something like, "My car makes a noise" or "Some lights are on my dash" because I do want to help them, but that information is so utterly useless that no one can do anything. I don't expect everyone to be a mechanic, but sometimes I wonder if people really consider what they are writing down in some threads? Most of the time we end up having to go back and forth until we finally get a kernel of useful diagnostic information.
I try to tailor my posts so that even people who don't know vehicles to well can understand, but its not always easy when you have to repeat yourself every hour. I try not to just post a link and make the posters feel like they're being blown off, but most of these vague questions are as useful as if the thread was never made. This is what typically draws the sarcasm and snark from many members. Some of us just have no life and we spend all day answering the same question all day long. :smow:
That being said, it is a double edge sword because then people necro-post threads from years ago expecting a person to pop on and answer them. I've popped into a few necro-threads and wasted my time answering a question from a person who hasn't been on in years. :frusty: So there's something to be said for "just search" vs. making an actual thread.
What I personally would like is some way to educate forum members on helpful tips/tactics for creating a thread. For example I posted a link to a thread I made a long time ago called http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/138149-noise-problems-recommended-guidelines.html The sole purpose of the thread was to create a guideline for members creating a thread based on a noise complaint. The idea is to put as much useful information in the first post so that through out the day we can help them vs. wasting everyones time asking "we need more information." Its amazing how much most of these threads are 2+ pages long with almost half of it being basically, "can you be more vague? we have no idea what you're asking." I'm not saying we need to throw the n00bs into concentration camps until they've been showered in exhaust fumes until they're brainwashed thread creating machines. But there does need to be some way to actively educate prospective members without making them feel like we're micromanaging them. I'd try to help myself; but I am not a moderator, so the best I can do is just say [MENTION=55855]zopperman[/MENTION] to call an admin. Most if not all the threads I have made (and some have gotten stickied thanks to you guys
) are designed to help everyone with experience ranging from "what's a spark plug" to "did you check the current ramp waveform on that injector to verify the injector coil is reaching full saturation and physically opening the pintle?" I think the forum should be an efficient source of technical information for everyone, while maintaining the social aspect of the forum so it doesn't end up a ghost town of not a lot of activity.
I try to tailor my posts so that even people who don't know vehicles to well can understand, but its not always easy when you have to repeat yourself every hour. I try not to just post a link and make the posters feel like they're being blown off, but most of these vague questions are as useful as if the thread was never made. This is what typically draws the sarcasm and snark from many members. Some of us just have no life and we spend all day answering the same question all day long. :smow:
That being said, it is a double edge sword because then people necro-post threads from years ago expecting a person to pop on and answer them. I've popped into a few necro-threads and wasted my time answering a question from a person who hasn't been on in years. :frusty: So there's something to be said for "just search" vs. making an actual thread.
What I personally would like is some way to educate forum members on helpful tips/tactics for creating a thread. For example I posted a link to a thread I made a long time ago called http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/138149-noise-problems-recommended-guidelines.html The sole purpose of the thread was to create a guideline for members creating a thread based on a noise complaint. The idea is to put as much useful information in the first post so that through out the day we can help them vs. wasting everyones time asking "we need more information." Its amazing how much most of these threads are 2+ pages long with almost half of it being basically, "can you be more vague? we have no idea what you're asking." I'm not saying we need to throw the n00bs into concentration camps until they've been showered in exhaust fumes until they're brainwashed thread creating machines. But there does need to be some way to actively educate prospective members without making them feel like we're micromanaging them. I'd try to help myself; but I am not a moderator, so the best I can do is just say [MENTION=55855]zopperman[/MENTION] to call an admin. Most if not all the threads I have made (and some have gotten stickied thanks to you guys
) are designed to help everyone with experience ranging from "what's a spark plug" to "did you check the current ramp waveform on that injector to verify the injector coil is reaching full saturation and physically opening the pintle?" I think the forum should be an efficient source of technical information for everyone, while maintaining the social aspect of the forum so it doesn't end up a ghost town of not a lot of activity.
preacher35
New member
Yup. Admittedly, this too, drives me crazy. It's irritating when a newbie with one post, comes in here and says they have a problem, be it a "noise" or starter issue, whatever. But they failed to tell us important information, like which gen is their Runner; or which motor do they have; or their current mileage, etc. No, it's simply:
"Hi. I have a 4Runner and it has a weird vibration. Suggestions?"
Now, the analytical, pain in the ass side of me wants to reach through the monitor and ***** slap these people! I mean, my six year old son is capable of disclosing more information about dad's 4Runner and some of these posters. But, I am a reasonable man and enjoy helping other Runner owners out as much as I can. [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION], you have certainly helped me out in the past as, I am sure, countless others. But I can see why you would 1) feel like this is a second job and 2) why you would get annoyed by the same questions over and over again, that you have already completed in your write-ups. I would like to think that, one day, I could repay the favor to you. But, since you are a tech, and I am not, I just try to pay it forward to others less knowledgeable then myself.... and defer ALL OF THE OTHERS TO YOU! (LOL)!
Anyway, the rule of thumb here is to just be reasonable and help out when you can and be polite to even those whom post completely retarded questions. However, the one exception would be the idiot that power washed the interior of his Runner. I'm sorry, but that guy was an absolute low IQ douche and had to be banned on PURE PRINCIPLE!
chompster4runner
New member
We should have a time out limit for newbies before they can post.
lane: Why is this only on 4th gen section? What's up with that?
lane: Why is this only on 4th gen section? What's up with that?
HokieRunner
New member
We should have a time out limit for newbies before they can post.
I've been following this thread and agree with some of the varying opinions here. This IS easily the nicest forum I've ever been a member on and also the most helpful.
I try to help where I can, post DIYs, etc. but at times the endless repeating threads get old and as someone earlier mentioned - they KILL the already poor search function so it's this downward spiral of folks creating a new thread on an age old topic because they can't quickly find (or are too lazy to look for) the information they want...because there are 80 threads on the topic only some of which have useful information!
This thread topic comes up a lot and I would agree that we need to institute some sort of filter or control for new members.
To expand on chompsters idea - how about new members can post to EXISTING threads but not create your own thread until you've hit 'X' number of posts? Obviously this has it's pitfalls as well but just another option (hadn't seen it mentioned yet but sorry if I missed it!)
A 'new members' area or 'waiting room' is a good idea as well.
anotherrunner83
New member
[MENTION=46025]HokieRunner[/MENTION] I think this is a great idea. Another forum I am a member of has something similar to this. You have to hit a certain number of posts before the rest of the forums functions become available to you.
[MENTION=109409]chompster4runner[/MENTION], i've already been chastised for not putting this in the right section...but it was by choice. i don't lurk around the other gen forums as much. i had seen several recent posts that just didn't seem necessary based on what the OP was posting.
[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION], i've always looked for your posts in other threads when trying to trouble shoot something. you are a great technical resource to this forum and your explanations and patience speak a lot for you and your character.
I guess I started this thread because I'm sick and tired of the direction things and people are heading, and it's not just this forum, but people in general. i'm not here trying to change the world, but if we, as a community of enthusiast, can help even the least knowledgeable or experienced person learn and grow and enjoy their vehicle that they've likely worked very hard to obtain, i see that as a pretty powerful thing.
[MENTION=109409]chompster4runner[/MENTION], i've already been chastised for not putting this in the right section...but it was by choice. i don't lurk around the other gen forums as much. i had seen several recent posts that just didn't seem necessary based on what the OP was posting.
[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION], i've always looked for your posts in other threads when trying to trouble shoot something. you are a great technical resource to this forum and your explanations and patience speak a lot for you and your character.
I guess I started this thread because I'm sick and tired of the direction things and people are heading, and it's not just this forum, but people in general. i'm not here trying to change the world, but if we, as a community of enthusiast, can help even the least knowledgeable or experienced person learn and grow and enjoy their vehicle that they've likely worked very hard to obtain, i see that as a pretty powerful thing.
anotherrunner83
New member
[MENTION=55855]zopperman[/MENTION], is there a way to have an automated first reply to a new members first few threads that remind them of the search functions on this site and maybe include a quick how to? maybe the function could also "quarantine" the thread for x hours until posting forcing the OP to search if they need an answer and giving them the option to delete their thread if they find the answer they are looking for.
chompster4runner
New member
[MENTION=51222]anotherrunner83[/MENTION].....I hope I didn't get off the wrong way. It was my way of poking fun.olice:
olice:anotherrunner83
New member
no no, i took as you were wondering why we weren't sharing this with the whole forum! i took it as a compliment that you liked this idea so much you wanted to spread it further! :jump:
Dylan
Member
I'm not sure how robust the customization of these vBulletin forum sites is, but I believe this forum's classified section requires a certain number of posts before putting something up for sale.
The trouble with limiting members from creating a new thread until they hit a certain number of posts is that those members will just go into existing threads and thread-jack the shit out of them. You may have a really great build thread that someone has spent hours on and then some noob comes along, doesnt read a damn thing, and pops a question in..."what size tires are those? How big can I go without rubbing? what's a headgasket?" :doh:
The trouble with limiting members from creating a new thread until they hit a certain number of posts is that those members will just go into existing threads and thread-jack the shit out of them. You may have a really great build thread that someone has spent hours on and then some noob comes along, doesnt read a damn thing, and pops a question in..."what size tires are those? How big can I go without rubbing? what's a headgasket?" :doh:
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gshadow325
New member
well this statement is the truth.
I have written several DIYs, expanded on DIYs made by others [MENTION=50591]gaterose[/MENTION] bumper lights [MENTION=46025]HokieRunner[/MENTION] fairing for the whitson metal works racks. without these guys posting up their ideas. i would still be trying to figure out how to do it!
This forum is full of guys that just read because of fear of the Noobie retaliation.
If you think the 4th gen forum is bad...move on to the 5th gen...there are a few there that are huge PITA know it alls.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Aww, I wouldn't call [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] a pain. Though he can be an old curmudgeon sometimes. Lol
JB.
New member
I see the thread has gravitated towards a solution based on making site changes.
I've never weighed in much on that subject due to the hard mental work of trying to predict what the side effects of changes might be.
But I have a suggestion based on recent experience on another board. It's simply a top level "Ask a Question" forum. It applies to members and non-members. Non-members have to fill in a captcha to post.
Extremely simple and works very well.
I've never weighed in much on that subject due to the hard mental work of trying to predict what the side effects of changes might be.
But I have a suggestion based on recent experience on another board. It's simply a top level "Ask a Question" forum. It applies to members and non-members. Non-members have to fill in a captcha to post.
Extremely simple and works very well.
1engineer
Moderator
Hey, there is a lot of misinformation in every one of these sub forums too. Many think that somehow their opinion is fact and their one experience with something is a trend. Some of these "know it alls" try to separate fact from fiction so those "newbies" who come here that can search will find accurate information to use in their decision making on 4Runners. I have gotten countless (maybe not countless but many) pm's from guys who have zero posts but have questions about some facet of their vehicle. I, and again many others ([MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] comes to mind), try to help the best we can by using FACTUAL knowledge versus opinions. We all know what opinions are like right?
A big problem, one not fixable I might add, is the human nature to get defensive when someone calls you out or proves you wrong. Not you specifically, but generally speaking. Their first impulse is to defend their poor or misguided prose with some nonsensical and unproven argument. In my world data is king and the more the better. When I ask someone to back up their post with hard data or proof you would think I was asking for their first born. I know this forum is populated with people from all walks of life but if you opine on a technical subject (not "what color is best" or "are the seats comfortable" " or anything about headlight opinions) then you had better be able to either back it up or take your licks. Michael Jordan once gave a quote when asked about his competition playing against him that has stuck with me for 30 years: It simply says "Step up or step off." That simple quote applies to a whole lot of situations in everyday life and especially when someone tries to prove something with the immortal words "Because I said so." So, make fun of me if you will but remember where my posts come from compared to that accountant from Des Moines who has never wrenched or wheeled, much less had to design something from a blank sheet, in their life. Most engineers are not known for their engaging personality and political correctness and I am no exception.
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This.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Our search function on this forum is broken or not properly coded. I've noticed that some of my threads show up way low on the list when I use keywords I chose for ease of searching.
gshadow325
New member
Hey I didn't mean to single out one person. Lol, there are a few in 5th gen that speak opinion for facts.
I had to quote everything because all your points are valid. That's why noobies click post, they don't know the difference between fact and opinions. High post count doesn't mean you will get the best answers or the first person to respond.
How many one hit wonders do we see on here [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] I have seen more than 1 post from you guys responding to questions and the OP never returns.
1engineer
Moderator
Lots and as I said above many questions are asked and answered and the guy has a zero post count. You are correct there are several high post count guys who STILL know nothing.
