New to Toyota and elockers

[bartvonwolf]

Hi all, another question. I have a 2016 Trail Premium on it's way over from Japan to me. I am wondering about the e-locker in the rear. Coming from an old Isuzu Trooper with ARB air lockers in the front and rear, what can I expect from the e-locker in the T4R? Are they pretty stout devices? I have a friend with a Xterra Pro4x and he said the e-lockers in the Xterras are crap. Now, granted we are talking about Toyotas, not Nissans, but it got me thinking about the e-locker my T4R will have. Are they "good"? Anything I need to know?

Thanks - Bart

 

[1engineer]

They are fine. Unless you rock crawl or go through deep mud all the time you won't ever need it because ATRAC. ATRAC just about eliminates (almost not quite) the need for lockers.

 

[bartvonwolf]

They are fine. Unless you rock crawl or go through deep mud all the time you won't ever need it because ATRAC. ATRAC just about eliminates (almost not quite) the need for lockers.

Yeah, I am neither a rock crawler or a mudder, but I do a fair amount of general trail driving and overlanding. Usually, the locker comes in handy when climbing steep hills with loose terrain like sand or snow. Explain to me how the ATRAC works? Is this some sort of LSD? Which is another good question. When the e-locker is not engaged, does the rear act like an LSD or open?

Thanks - Bart

 

[adam2562]

atrac uses the brakes to slow or stop the spinning wheel forcing the other wheel to start spinning with the traction. it works with all 4 wheels.. essentially like having a locker in the front and rear.. but there's no substitute to a true locker

 

[delloro]

What is wrong with Nissan's e-locker?

This winter, had a rental 4runner, ATRAC did not help going up a leafy, wet hill with a little mud and snow. It has worked for me going up dry dirt hills.

There is a locker in my future. Probably ARB, though Harrop's e-locker is interesting. Just a bit pricey.

 

[bartvonwolf]

atrac uses the brakes to slow or stop the spinning wheel forcing the other wheel to start spinning with the traction. it works with all 4 wheels.. essentially like having a locker in the front and rear.. but there's no substitute to a true locker

But the e-locker in the rear is a "true" locker, or no?

What is wrong with Nissan's e-locker?

I don't know the specifics. We were just BSing about rigs as he has one of the newer Xterras. He said the e-lockers the Pro 4X came with are notoriously weak and strip out. I have no first hand experience with that myself, and neither does he, so it's probably just hearsay on his part, but still, not something I like to hear about stock products from any manufacturer.

This winter, had a rental 4runner, ATRAC did not help going up a leafy, wet hill with a little mud and snow.

Exactly! This is what I liked having the ARBs in my Trooper to deal with. So I am hoping the e-locker in the T4R is decent and will do the job in situations like this. I am guessing the rig you rented did not have the locker in the rear, correct?

Thanks - Bart

 

[1engineer]

What is wrong with Nissan's e-locker?

This winter, had a rental 4runner, ATRAC did not help going up a leafy, wet hill with a little mud and snow. It has worked for me going up dry dirt hills.

There is a locker in my future. Probably ARB, though Harrop's e-locker is interesting. Just a bit pricey.

My friend, just this past summer I stood by and watched a Jeep Rubicon have to get pushed out of a tiny grassed swag. He had both lockers engaged. We were at a party and many of us parked on a big lawn. It had rained just a bit and when we were leaving this Jeep just happened to be parked (Had the MTR tires) in the exact wrong place where it was slightly uphill both ways. I actually had to put it in 4HI and I was going down a slight slope! That was some slick grass, so slick I didn't even make fun of the Jeep. It was funny though, all four wheels just slowly turning away and him not even moving. It was a lawn and apparently had just been mowed that morning before the rain. A slight push to get momentum and he was gone.
So, it happens no matter what you have. I have gotten crawler mounted machines stuck lol.

 

[Jetboy]

Yes. The toyota e-locker is a true 100% locking differential. When engaged it's effectively a "spool". The engagement is through a servo that slides a splined collar on one side of the differential. The splined collar locks that axle side to the differential carrier. This effectively locks everything together.

They are quite strong. Stronger than the axle shafts. So in most ways they are equally as durable as an ARB. In a pinch you can remove the servo and move the collar with a screwdriver to engage.

They are not as fast acting as the ARB. It takes a few seconds to engage and disengage. It also only will engage in 4lo at very low speed. On the plus side you don't have all the ARB failure points. ARB seals usually are 10 year items, so you'd need to plan more maintenance involving pulling the diff and replacing the internal seal set every so often. Not the end of the world. Just different considerations. Personally I would put a Harrop/Eaton e-locker in if I didn't have the OEM Toyota. The downside here is that you have to buy from Australia and they are $$$. Why? I have no idea. The exact same eaton e-locker for a D44 or Ford 9" is only about $700. The new Tacoma has finally moved to a fully internal e-locker like the Eaton design. I expect all new generations of Toyota axles will do the same as it's just a better design.

ATRAC is surprisingly good. It's every bit as good IMO as a Detroit Trutrac. That's basically a torsen style differential and the only posi I have to compare to. So when the diff is unlocked, it will *act* like a limited slip even though internally it is just an open differential with normal spider gears.

I really don't know much about the Nissan diffs other than that the Titan was notoriously under-axled and lots and lots of rear axles failed on the titans.

 

[phillyd2]

If attacking a nail, use a hammer. When the victim is a screw, use a screwdriver. Different jobs require different tools.

I'll disagree, respectfully now that he is a mod, with Mr. 1E that as great as atrac may be - and it is - there are times when nothing replaces lockers. This is just the nature of the beast and both actually work differently.

If I had to pick just one, I think I may pick atrac because I use it so much more. But having been in situations where it was not enough, rear lockers saved the day. And that very very few times where the rears were not enough then the fronts were engaged. But it has been very few.

Don't know about the OEM elockers but a nice part of ARB air lockers is that they are completely ignorant of each other so both can do what they need to do.

Somewhere on the web there is a good video by ARB showing both in action and inaction.

 

[1engineer]

If attacking a nail, use a hammer. When the victim is a screw, use a screwdriver. Different jobs require different tools.

I'll disagree, respectfully now that he is a mod, with Mr. 1E that as great as atrac may be - and it is - there are times when nothing replaces lockers. This is just the nature of the beast and both actually work differently.

If I had to pick just one, I think I may pick atrac because I use it so much more. But having been in situations where it was not enough, rear lockers saved the day. And that very very few times where the rears were not enough then the fronts were engaged. But it has been very few.

Don't know about the OEM elockers but a nice part of ARB air lockers is that they are completely ignorant of each other so both can do what they need to do.

Somewhere on the web there is a good video by ARB showing both in action and inaction.

Hey there are times when lockers are needed I agree. It's just with ATRAC you might never get to use a locker in normal use for the life of the vehicle. Oh, don't start with the respectfully crap lol.

 

[bartvonwolf]

Thanks guys, for the replies. No need to argue about the merits of one thing vs another. All tools have their uses, and to me, it's just better to have the quality tools on hand and not need them rather than need them and not have them, or have a crap tool that just sounds cool but is actually junk. So I am glad to hear the rear e-locker is a real locker, and it sounds like the ATRAC will also be a nice feature. I am looking forward to entering the 21st century of 4x4s. I may regret it, and miss my all metal and manual flying brick of a Trooper, but I hope the modern creature comforts and Toyota's reputation for reliability makes me never look back.

Thanks again,

Bart

 

[alfonzo]

Will you get a larger diameter tire? If you decide to regear, say 4.56 as I suggest, consider ARB front and back. For my tastes, the factory gearing should have been 4.10; add some weight and larger tires and 4.56 is just right. When One changes gears, one might add the lockers.

 

[bartvonwolf]

Will you get a larger diameter tire? If you decide to regear, say 4.56 as I suggest, consider ARB front and back. For my tastes, the factory gearing should have been 4.10; add some weight and larger tires and 4.56 is just right.

So yeah, another good question. What is the factory diff gear ratio on the Trail Premiums? Is it the 3.727 Axle Ratio? My Trooper had 4.56s that I upgraded to 4.77s with the ARBs and that combo was nice. As for tires, I would like to go up to some slightly taller pizza cutters. I have been running the General Grabber AT2s in 235/85 R16 on my Trooper and I like them. So something like that would be my plan. I have to decide on lift kits. Of course, that Stage 7 Icon kit looks tits but I don't think I need to spend over $6k on my lift alone. I would like to go up 1.5" to 2"s. So any additional suggestions are welcome. I am still learning about Toys and all they have to offer.

Bart

 

[jwkilgore]

Stock gearing is 3.73 (3.727?) on all 5th Gen 4Runners.

Optional non-OEM ratios for all models are 3.91, 4.56, and 4.88. Our front diffs are the same but the rear is different (which is why I can't install a factory e-locker in my SR5).

You may have other options because the trail rear diff is a different size than my SR5... I know you can get 4.10 for the front diff, but not the SR5's 8.2 rear, but that ratio may be available for yours.

 

[Jetboy]

Basically the rear has no gear options between 3.73, 3.93(gx460) and 4.56. IMO that's a huge jump for slightly different tire sizes - especially if you stay around stock tire height. 4.56 in a 5th gen is numerically equivalent to putting 5.29 gears in a 3rd gen that came stock with 4.30 gear ratio. It's too far for me to make the jump. I'd probably pick up a set of 4.10 or maybe 4.30 gears if they were available for the rear axle. Unfortunately we're pretty much stuck with what we've got unless you want to build a custom axle with some other differential.

 

[adam2562]

But the e-locker in the rear is a "true" locker, or no?


I don't know the specifics. We were just BSing about rigs as he has one of the newer Xterras. He said the e-lockers the Pro 4X came with are notoriously weak and strip out. I have no first hand experience with that myself, and neither does he, so it's probably just hearsay on his part, but still, not something I like to hear about stock products from any manufacturer.


Exactly! This is what I liked having the ARBs in my Trooper to deal with. So I am hoping the e-locker in the T4R is decent and will do the job in situations like this. I am guessing the rig you rented did not have the locker in the rear, correct?

Thanks - Bart

YES the locker in the rear is a true locker

 

[bartvonwolf]

And I just thought of another question. Will 16" wheels fit the 5th gen? Or is there a clearance issue with the calipers?

Thanks- Bart

 

[1engineer]

They won't fit. There is a sticky for new or prospective owners that will either answer or give you the tools to answer all these new to you questions. There are some really good answers already out there.

 

[TheWraith]

Pretty cool thread... like reading owners opinions on the elockers we have.

 

[FordyceCreek]

The Xterra Diffs simply exploded due to lack of spider gears, only 1. By 07 or so they updated it with 3...but still denied the issue. Mine popped easier then a balloon.

Anyhow, electric lockers seem smoother, and more reliable then the air ones from my experience. You know ARBs, freakin leak all the time. My 1996 Montero stock locker leaks from the old seal in the diff when its cold, and I have had ARBs do that. Could still have a short, but I think its less likely.

When the going gets extreme traction control systems simply cannot keep up transferring power and braking fast enough. that is when a locker comes in. Something like Atrac is great for gravel roads and light duty wheeling. But when things get rough, lockers are what the doctored ordered, that will never change. They dont have to swap power to different wheels. Most just dont wheel that hard. Could you do the Rubicon with just Atrac? Probably, but it would be ugly.