New wheel cylinder-now endless bubbles

[K-Tanz]

Recently, along with rear axle seals and bearings, I replaced both rear shoes. In replacing the shoes I noticed I had a bad passenger wheel cylinder so I bought a new one at Napa as the OEM was something like 86 bucks. On a side note I can now disassemble and reassemble my rear drums hanging upside down and blindfolded in under a minute...Major Payne style.

Now that it's all bolted up in trying to bleed the system I get endless copious bubbles out of that bleeder. I've been using a one man method by submerging the end of the bleed tubing in a bit of brake fluid so it doesn't suck air back up. So I pump the pedal til it is firm, open the bleeder, wait til all fluid stops, close bleeder, repeat. I have been doing this endlessly and every time its bubbles to the point of being sudsy.

Could I have a bad bleed valve that is letting surrounding air in? Could I be loosening the valve too much? I also had the OEM rubber brake line clamped for about 10 days while I was doing the axle work and lift install. There are no bubbles where I clamped it but I am thinking if there is an internal hose covered by a protective outer the inner could be cracked but not the outer?

I don't think i have fluid in the MC because the DS rear bled really easily. I have also read that the LSP-BV valve can cause this kind of issue but to my knowledge the 3rd gen doesn't have this valve. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[thebrandon]

I would get a buddy or family member to help you out with bleeding them again, and make sure you bleed all four corners while watching the fluid level. If it still does it after that, then I would start looking for leaks or at a bad bleeder.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Pull the hard line out of the new cylinder, attach the one man bleeder to the line, have someone else pump the brakes, then look for bubbles.

My guess is that it is a bad new part right out of the box. For $86 I would have just gone to the dealer. A new rear line is about $40 retail.

 

[K-Tanz]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I ended up bleeding it at the hard line to diagnose where I was getting air in the system and it was squeaky clean. The issue was that the bleed valve that came on the new cylinder was a POS. I went to O'Reilly and bought some Dorman Speed Bleeders, wrapped the threads in some teflon pipe tape, and it immediately fixed the issue. A nice 1/4 turn lets fluid out and you can pump the pedal as much as you want and nothing gets back in. Pedal is firm now and the throw seems back to normal.

On a side note I still can't lock the brakes up I think because I just did the axle seals and it didn't quite take. I have gear oil coming out the drums so I am gonna do the [MENTION=78997]Drcoffee[/MENTION] method to move the retainer rings. It seems reasonable that I wouldn't be able to lock the brakes with gear oil in those drums. Does that seem correct or is there maybe still something amiss with the brake system?

 

[gamefreakgc]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I ended up bleeding it at the hard line to diagnose where I was getting air in the system and it was squeaky clean. The issue was that the bleed valve that came on the new cylinder was a POS. I went to O'Reilly and bought some Dorman Speed Bleeders, wrapped the threads in some teflon pipe tape, and it immediately fixed the issue. A nice 1/4 turn lets fluid out and you can pump the pedal as much as you want and nothing gets back in. Pedal is firm now and the throw seems back to normal.

On a side note I still can't lock the brakes up I think because I just did the axle seals and it didn't quite take. I have gear oil coming out the drums so I am gonna do the [MENTION=78997]Drcoffee[/MENTION] method to move the retainer rings. It seems reasonable that I wouldn't be able to lock the brakes with gear oil in those drums. Does that seem correct or is there maybe still something amiss with the brake system?

Out of curiosity, do you have a link to the product you bought? I need to bleed my brakes and I think I'm close to exhausting my wife's patience on my many requests for help with rebuilding my 4Runner.

 

[K-Tanz]

I literally just went to the auto parts store and the dude at the counter hooked it up. It was $12 for a pair. Amazon has some from a brand called Russel which have good reviews. The reviews are mixed in spots but I had good luck and would reccommend them.

 

[JayRolla]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I ended up bleeding it at the hard line to diagnose where I was getting air in the system and it was squeaky clean. The issue was that the bleed valve that came on the new cylinder was a POS. I went to O'Reilly and bought some Dorman Speed Bleeders, wrapped the threads in some teflon pipe tape, and it immediately fixed the issue. A nice 1/4 turn lets fluid out and you can pump the pedal as much as you want and nothing gets back in. Pedal is firm now and the throw seems back to normal.

On a side note I still can't lock the brakes up I think because I just did the axle seals and it didn't quite take. I have gear oil coming out the drums so I am gonna do the [MENTION=78997]Drcoffee[/MENTION] method to move the retainer rings. It seems reasonable that I wouldn't be able to lock the brakes with gear oil in those drums. Does that seem correct or is there maybe still something amiss with the brake system?

I have had this issue on non OEM brake cylinders. I have had ones that would not seal at all. I also have had them fail in less than 10k miles, dropping all fluid and killing brakes completely. All I know is I will never run non oem wheel cylinders again. For $86 each and them lasting over 200k miles thats not bad at all. I went with non oem front calipers because the tundra calipers are like $500 each. Now that is expensive.

 

[K-Tanz]

Yeah I am starting to see why the OEM bandwagon is so full when these companies can't even get the relatively simple stuff right.

Is it reasonable that I can't get the brakes to lock up right now due to the rears being covered in gear oil or should a hard stomp be able to lock up the fronts? Just wondering if I can call it a day with the diagnosis for now or if I need to look more. I suppose my question will be answered when I re-do the seals though.

 

[Drcoffee]

Speed bleeders are the best part ever invented for car brakes. $12 for a pair at most auto parts stores.

For your air bubble situation, you need a second person to pump the brakes correctly. Your method isnt going to work. When you changed the cylinder did you torque the brake line correctly? You could be introducing air if its not sealed.

On the new cylinder, go to rockauto.com. You can find Aisin cylinders for a fair price and they are oem suppliers. When my axle seals crapped out, I replaced both cylinders while I had it all apart. It had to be disconnected anyway and they were 14 years old. The Aisins work great with no problems.

I have lost a lot of faith in most of the name brands I grew up with. They have all gone to china and they all make crap products. Buy japanese whenever you can.