New Yorkers... Give up your guns.

[ndcent]

Then please outline your actions if for some reason trouble finds you. What will you do?

Scenario: You're walking down a street in midtown manhattan, lets say you're on 49th walking west towards the C, E station to head downtown to see a show at the Knitting Factory on Canal (does that place still exist? I digress) and some punk kid comes up behind you on the staircase with a Desert Eagle in the small of your back. He's never had a NICS check. He's never been to the range. His chances of killing himself by accident are just as high as him killing you. He wants your wallet but he's agitated because you're arrogant and think you're in a bubble of invincibility. You think to yourself you may not get home to see your wife and kids. What do you do?

Do you hand over your wallet? The little leather folder which houses not only your cash, but your credit cards, license (complete with date of birth, ADDRESS where he can find the aforementioned wife and kids), maybe even your social security card if you're that dumb).

Do you beg for your life?


Wouldn't you prefer a fighting chance? A level playing field?[\b]

People don't carry because they're scared or paranoid. They carry because they're ready. You can't control when and where trouble finds you, but you CAN control (or should be able to control) how you prepare yourself should that scenario arise.

I'm glad you can recognize that carrying doesn't guarantee you the upper hand and rather simply better chances.

 

[Brique]

Actually, in that particular scenario I would hand him the wallet regardless of whether I was carrying. If he's got a gun in my back, reaching for my piece (if I had one) would only escalate my chances of getting shot.

In other situations, things could be entirely different. I don't own or carry, but I'm a firm believer in others' right to do so.

I have a lot more to say on the topic, but I'm on my crappy little phone and there's no way I can put up a well thought wall of text from here.

 

[LINY4Runner]

I'm glad you can recognize that carrying doesn't guarantee you the upper hand and rather simply better chances.

Of course it doesn't guarantee you the upper hand. Nothing can, especially if the perp is behind you. But it increases your chances of surviving with all your organs and personal effects in tact exponentially. And the more people who carry, the less "real estate" there is for the criminals.

There is a direct correlation between CCW counties and violent crime. I have a chart at home of the FBI stats laid out in color on a US map. You'll see most of the country in a nice light blue, with very dark red areas surrounding NYC, LA and Chicago. Houston, Dallas, Austin; blue. Jacksonville, Atlanta, Nashville; blue. Seattle, Portland, San Fransisco, Vegas; blue.

 

[LINY4Runner]

Actually, in that particular scenario I would hand him the wallet regardless of whether I was carrying. If he's got a gun in my back, reaching for my piece (if I had one) would only escalate my chances of getting shot.

In other situations, things could be entirely different. I don't own or carry, but I'm a firm believer in others' right to do so.

I have a lot more to say on the topic, but I'm on my crappy little phone and there's no way I can put up a well thought wall of text from here.

I may have handed him my wallet too but with no intention of letting him leave with it. Like I said, at that point he knows where you live. He also knows you're an easy target.

Not me.

 

[nevada]

I'm glad you can recognize that carrying doesn't guarantee you the upper hand and rather simply better chances.

yes, carrying a weapon doesn't instantly turn you into a Rambo, nor does it turn you into a crazy person.
which is what hikenbike seems to think.

 

[RunninInGA]

Connecticut isn't going to turn out any better I fear.

Men wait in line to register guns before new laws go into effect - WFSB 3 Connecticut

 

[JBecker]

Connecticut isn't going to turn out any better I fear.

Men wait in line to register guns before new laws go into effect - WFSB 3 Connecticut

I wonder how many of those registered "assault weapons" are going to turn up at crime scenes? My guess is none unless they are stolen.

 

[hikenbike]

Then please outline your actions if for some reason trouble finds you. What will you do?

Scenario: You're walking down a street in midtown manhattan, lets say you're on 49th walking west towards the C, E station to head downtown to see a show at the Knitting Factory on Canal (does that place still exist? I digress) and some punk kid comes up behind you on the staircase with a Desert Eagle in the small of your back. He's never had a NICS check. He's never been to the range. His chances of killing himself by accident are just as high as him killing you. He wants your wallet but he's agitated because you're arrogant and think you're in a bubble of invincibility. You think to yourself you may not get home to see your wife and kids. What do you do?

Do you hand over your wallet? The little leather folder which houses not only your cash, but your credit cards, license (complete with date of birth, ADDRESS where he can find the aforementioned wife and kids), maybe even your social security card if you're that dumb).

Do you beg for your life?


Wouldn't you prefer a fighting chance? A level playing field?

People don't carry because they're scared or paranoid. They carry because they're ready. You can't control when and where trouble finds you, but you CAN control (or should be able to control) how you prepare yourself should that scenario arise.

Tough to answer as I'd have to be in that situation. The aggressor ALWAYS has a major advantage. There may be no actions to take if I'm already dead or dying and they can take the wallet themselves.

A gun would certainly give me a better "chance" though.....and I'm willling and more than happy to obtain the proper mandatory qualifications on a regular basis in order to carry one - like I've said ad nauseum from the beginning.

 

[hikenbike]

yes, carrying a weapon doesn't instantly turn you into a Rambo, nor does it turn you into a crazy person.
which is what hikenbike seems to think.

Wrong.

Being able to carry any gun anywhere at anytime must require comprehensive and regular qualifications IMO. That is all.

 

[nevada]

Wrong.

Being able to carry any gun anywhere at anytime must require comprehensive and regular qualifications IMO. That is all.

again, once you come up with a plan for the criminals to do that, im game. until then, no.

 

[nevada]

Tough to answer as I'd have to be in that situation. The aggressor ALWAYS has a major advantage. There may be no actions to take if I'm already dead or dying and they can take the wallet themselves.

A gun would certainly give me a better "chance" though.....and I'm willling and more than happy to obtain the proper mandatory qualifications on a regular basis in order to carry one - like I've said ad nauseum from the beginning.

then what is stopping you?

you keep saying it, but you aren't doing it, are you?

 

[LINY4Runner]

yes, carrying a weapon doesn't instantly turn you into a Rambo, nor does it turn you into a crazy person.
which is what hikenbike seems to think.

Wrong.

Being able to carry any gun anywhere at anytime must require comprehensive and regular qualifications IMO. That is all.

Agree to disagree. [MENTION=84120]nevada[/MENTION] wants constitutional carry, [MENTION=96581]hikenbike[/MENTION] wants police-like traning for the common citizen. We can all agree than more guns does not equal more crime, in fact the opposite. We can also all agree that there are some people, no matter how much you believe in the constitution, that just plain shouldn't have a gun.
I would like to see more CCW carriers enroll voluntarily in hikenbike-style training, but I cannot agree to it being forced. Like I said it'd be hard to do that without giving government too much power. Maybe if it were locally sponsored by each county's PD (since most in LE are on our side with this one) I could go along with that...

I don't know, I don't have the answers, just suggestions. Nothing is going to appeal to both sides, EVER. But we've already compromised so much. What has the other side sacrificed?

 

[hikenbike]

then what is stopping you?

you keep saying it, but you aren't doing it, are you?

Virtually impossible to get around here. CC permits go to persons specifically employed in security work and to others who can establish an urgent necessity for carrying guns for self-protection.

I'm neither.

 

[LINY4Runner]

Virtually impossible to get around here. CC permits go to persons specifically employed in security work and to others who can establish an urgent necessity for carrying guns for self-protection.

I'm neither.

Same boat. My EDC consists of a Smith & Wesson M&P Spring Assisted 4" blade. Not quite enough for the Desert Eagle scenario but it's better than wetting myself like Gov. Hickenlooper suggested.

 

[JBecker]

Virtually impossible to get around here. CC permits go to persons specifically employed in security work and to others who can establish an urgent necessity for carrying guns for self-protection.

I'm neither.

While it is still bad in a few areas, it has gotten much better over the last 25 years for the majority of America.

 

[SV_Dude]

I can see what [MENTION=96581]hikenbike[/MENTION] wants. It would be nice if everyone who cc'd would have some sort of formal training. It would also be nice if the average person took up an interest in training with a firearm. I applaud his desire for a trained and armed society. The fact is that will never happen.

I will agree that most people who cc actually have a genuine interest in firearms and do get some sort of training. It doesn't need to be a formal course but even range time is good enough. Most cc'ers go to the range frequently and practice.

I honestly don't care if everyone carries, it doesn't affect me. As long as my right to protect myself, my family or those around me if needed isn't pulled away from me then I have no argument with anyone in this matter.

 

[hikenbike]

Same boat. My EDC consists of a Smith & Wesson M&P Spring Assisted 4" blade. Not quite enough for the Desert Eagle scenario but it's better than wetting myself like Gov. Hickenlooper suggested.

Yup. This modest Ontario Rat1 is what I carry (although its in my pack and not immediately accessible) but I think this is even illegal around here......

 

[JBecker]

Knives are a valuable tool to have on you at all time, I wind up using them at work constantly. Sadly some areas have ridiculous laws on them as well.

This is what I carried today. :lightsaber:

 

[wallytoo]

While it is still bad in a few areas, it has gotten much better over the last 25 years for the majority of America.

not sure i understand the demographic. is it the right to carry? or the right to conceal carry?

because if it is showing the right to carry, rather than CC, the map is incorrect.

 

[JBecker]

not sure i understand the demographic. is it the right to carry? or the right to conceal carry?

because if it is showing the right to carry, rather than CC, the map is incorrect.

Sorry, that is for concealed carry. I believe the website it originated from is called right to carry. The map has been updated recently to show Illinois getting shall issue. That's right, it is now legal to carry concealed in Chicago for in state residents after meeting the states requirements. Bout time.