No Acceleration, 10mpg?

[BrianSD_42]

The Toyota mechanic told you to run premium gas?

All this truck needs is 87.

No Toyota mechanic should be telling you to run Premium 91 for a V6 4Runner.

 

[Ryanincc]

I can tell you that where you go, isn't as important as who is diagnosing your vehicle.

Yeah, you're right. They really haven't proven themselves to me, as my wife's car has been towed there 7 times in 3 months for the same problem. I put up with them because the price is better than most, their reputation and they are close to my house. But any place with a shuttle, or gives rides to customers, would suffice in that aspect. I just called and they said they were going to drive it with "something not connected" to see if they figured it out. I should have pulled it from them earlier this week, because now its basically Friday and if I take it anywhere else, it will be next week before they can get to it. I think Im stuck this time and will be more discerning on the problems I let them tackle in the future.

 

[Ryanincc]

The Toyota mechanic told you to run premium gas?

All this truck needs is 87.

No Toyota mechanic should be telling you to run Premium 91 for a V6 4Runner.

Since Ive been towing, Ive put premium in. The same time that my problems have arisen. IS it possible the gas could have messed up something?

 

[BrianSD_42]

Does towing affect gas octane needs of the engine?

I don't know, sorry that is new to me.

 

[tre9er]

The Toyota mechanic told you to run premium gas?

All this truck needs is 87.

No Toyota mechanic should be telling you to run Premium 91 for a V6 4Runner.

I was gonna say this myself. Higher octane typically only needed for engines with high compression/FI where detonation a concern.

 

[the great him]

Took it in to a my mechanic. Replaced the fuel filter with slight imrovement. FF was about 80% blocked. Checked plugs wires coils, all good. Cat looks good. Had to take the vehicle since the wife's is in the shop to working on her third fuel pump this month. Pick hers up in the AM and drop mine off for further digging. Can anyone tell me which sensors that will NOT throw a code? Thinking about using my Haynes to do some resistance testing. Or is there something Im missing?

Just wanted to update this for future search results.

Its currently been in the shop for a week, and Im quickly losing all faith in the shop's capabilities. They said they have ruled out the engine and drivetrain, and anything "catastrophic" and said, "it must be electrical" and willing to accept any ideas if I have any. So far, it isn't coils, plugs, injectors, fuel filter, cat or anything else obvious unless its the pump which I don't know if they checked. Could it be the main computer?

I am wondering from any of you other guys, would you continue to leave your 4Runner with your long time shop after a week with no results or would you suck up the probable outrageous cost and take your 3rd gen into the dealership? My shop has never done me wrong before and I got to them originally from two previous long time shops that were screwing me over. I am positive they have not had it in a bay this whole time as they are a busy shop. Where would you draw the line?

Since Ive been towing, Ive put premium in. The same time that my problems have arisen. IS it possible the gas could have messed up something?

do you and your wife buy gas at the same place?

reading this i was thinking cat at first... but now i am leaning more on bad fuel pump and or plugged pickup at the sump... especially with a bad filter and of the sudden after buying different gas this problem arose? where are you buying gas at? what brand of gas? i know shell has some additives that i have seen ruin some fuel pumps and filters in short time. when i worked at BMW we saw this all the time, customers would be back in like oil change intervals with plugged fuel filters from either buying cheap gas at discount stations or shell. personally i run only chevron or arco/bp in my rigs, i wont touch shell or 76. id rather run out of gas and push than put their gas in my vehicles. also when you get gas have you ever gotten gas when the fuel transfer truck is there filling the tanks? if so that means that the stations tanks are low, and they are dumping fuel into the tanks stirring up any contaminants in the bottom of the station tanks and those could get picked up and pumped into your vehicles tanks thus clogging things up. id look into getting the tanks in your 4runner dropped and cleaned out/inspected and putting in a new pump/sump. if you still are having issue time to look at flushing the rails and new injectors as you might have some crap up in the rails and in the injectors themselves

 

[sterbenlicht]

Well, sometimes a Toyota tech will suggest premium, but it wouldn't have anything to do with a problem like this. They'll suggest something like that if you have a failing cat. Sometimes lucky few are able to skate by for another year after clearing the code and switching to higher octane.

That's neither here nor there though. I would take it to the dealer. The guy who said it depends on who is diagnosing the issues is completely right. I've seen independent shops give up though. At some point, they can suck it up and give you your vehicle back unable to help you. That doesn't happen as often at a big dealership, because they know they can't be certified Toyota techs and get away with saying "sorry, we don't know." If necessary, the truck will switch hands to a more qualified tech hopefully, and even then, they may call technical assistance depending on what they think the issue may be.

The only way the dealer will be able to simply give up is by either trying to charge you way more for diag than you're willing to pay and hoping you'll get it out of their hair, or by saying it's normal, or by claiming they can't duplicate your concern...which in this case doesn't sound like something they're going to be able to say.

All in all, I would definitely take it to the dealer with much more confidence that the issue will be found, BUT be prepared for the potential for them to ask for your approval of more diagnostic time money if the tech is unable to figure it out relatively quickly.

 

[Ryanincc]

do you and your wife buy gas at the same place?

reading this i was thinking cat at first... where are you buying gas at? what brand of gas?id look into getting the tanks in your 4runner dropped and cleaned out/inspected and putting in a new pump/sump. if you still are having issue time to look at flushing the rails and new injectors as you might have some crap up in the rails and in the injectors themselves

Thanks for throwing your 2 cents in. It sure drives like the cat is clogged but Ive pulled out the o2 sensor just upstream with zero effect on acceleration. I usually buy my gas at a local grocery store but Im not loyal. I don't suspect the gas itself but the pump could be an issue. The mechanic, or rather the person on the phone said that they tested the fuel pump and it checked out. I don't know how to test one so I don't know if they were just saying that. It seems like that fuel truck is always filling up the station though. A couple, months ago I did fill up while the truck was there and wondered if it was a bad idea. I figured there were filters in place but I have no idea. My gas tank is crunched in a little from where someone, sometime long ago jacked up the vehicle using it as a platform. I don't know if that was before or after I bought it though, but I wonder if something could have flaked off inside the tank, like a coating or painted sealant. As you can tell, Ive never seen the inside of the tank so I don't know. I would hope theres some kind of rubber balloon like aircraft have.
Is there a way to test the injectors? If I pull it out from the shop, I plan on doing some of the trouble shooting myself before I take it to the dealership, as a last ditch effort, so any further advice is appreciated. If I can't test the injectors, Ive heard of refurbished ones on ebay. Is it worth buying new, just buy the refurbed, or I think Ive heard you can send your own out somewhere to get fixed. Any of those a preference?

 

[the great him]

im not a fan of the ebay injectors... id just send yours our to get balanced and flow checked. thats about all your can do with them anyways -thats all the refurbished ones are, at least this way you keep your oe injectors.

if your tank is crushed in then there is a chance that your sump (the pickup for the pump) could of been damaged and thus the screen on it is not working properly and contaminants are able to get past the prefiler (screen) and into the pump and or fuel line, thus causing your issues. or enough contaminants have built up around the screen that its blocking off its ability to freely pick up the needed fuel. one way to check this would be to check the fuel pressure at the rail and the rate of flow at the rail. however i do not know the stock specs for either of those two.

it might be worth throwing a $1-200 cat on it to see if that fixes the issue. if not then you can always but the stock cat back on. and if that does solve the issue, then you know its time to start saving up for a good OE toyota cat. and you need to figure out what is going on the foul the cat, because what ever did it the first time will continue to do i again until its fixed, and you dont want to blow $1100 on a cat every other year from toyota. but i do not like throwing parts a problem in hopes of fixing it... that gets spendy really quick

 

[Ryanincc]

Well, sometimes a Toyota tech will suggest premium, but it wouldn't have anything to do with a problem like this. They'll suggest something like that if you have a failing cat. Sometimes lucky few are able to skate by for another year after clearing the code and switching to higher octane.

I figured that it was mostly BS. It was almost free advice but i still expected a little more from the dealership, especially after working on it as long as they said they did, and the fact that the mechanic doing the work had the same engine and going as far as measuring the resistance on the coils

The only way the dealer will be able to simply give up is by either trying to charge you way more for diag than you're willing to pay and hoping you'll get it out of their hair, or by saying it's normal, or by claiming they can't duplicate your concern...which in this case doesn't sound like something they're going to be able to say.

I have considered this and is my worst fear, other than finding the actual problem is going to cost $3k to fix. Considering they have already done some diagnosing and I can't get a CEL to point me or them in the right direction, this seems a likely sequence of events. As a result of that, Im inclined to put up with the shop working extremely slow, and hesitant to raise my voice in frustration.

All in all, I would definitely take it to the dealer with much more confidence that the issue will be found, BUT be prepared for the potential for them to ask for your approval of more diagnostic time money if the tech is unable to figure it out relatively quickly.

Do you know how it works... if I just wanted the dealership to tell me whats wrong, not fix it, and let me take it? Im sure if I told them ahead of time what my plan was. they would surely charge, but if i told them i couldn't afford the fix, after they found the problem, and would be back, would i get away with a free troubleshoot?

 

[the great him]

Do you know how it works... if I just wanted the dealership to tell me whats wrong, not fix it, and let me take it? Im sure if I told them ahead of time what my plan was. they would surely charge, but if i told them i couldn't afford the fix, after they found the problem, and would be back, would i get away with a free troubleshoot?

sorry no dealer will give you free trouble shooting... that tech who is doing the trouble shooting has to be paid somehow... how do you think that is? its you man... there are no free lunches, especially when you are not gonna have them do the work, they will make no money off you. now if you wanted them to do the work they might be more inclined to work with you on discounting the trouble shooting. the problem lies though with if they do it for you then pretty soon everybody wants that and they are out of business. its bad business to give away your product. -and just so everyone is clear here, dealers do not make their living on selling cars, thats a myth, they make the bulk of their income on servicing cars. why do you think in the past 10-15 years more an more of our vehicles on the road require more and more special tools...? its so people will bring their car back to the dealer to have them work in it, same idea behind the certified used cars programs ect. you will get a much higher trade-in on your vehicle if it has been dealer maintained its whole life.

sorry no dealer is gonna fall for that

 

[Ryanincc]

im not a fan of the ebay injectors... id just send yours our to get balanced and flow checked. thats about all your can do with them anyways -thats all the refurbished ones are, at least this way you keep your oe injectors.

Good to know

one way to check this would be to check the fuel pressure at the rail and the rate of flow at the rail. however i do not know the stock specs for either of those two.

Ive put off buying a fuel pressure gauge. I guess the $50 will be worth it.

it might be worth throwing a $1-200 cat on it to see if that fixes the issue. but i do not like throwing parts a problem in hopes of fixing it... that gets spendy really quick

I wish I could throw parts at the problem. Well, i sort of already did because the shop put on a fuel filter for $80 without consulting first. Which had no improvement. But, if it is the cat after all, wouldn't i have had at least some improvement when i pulled the o2 sensor upstream?Only thing that changed was the engine was loud.

 

[sterbenlicht]

Yeah, they're going to charge you the diag regardless. Most likely starting with 1hr at whatever their rate is per hour. Then if they think it will take more time and troubleshooting, they'll call you for approval of another hour or more of time. If they already know you only want to know what's wrong and will then fix it yourself, they might even try to hit you harder on the diag while they have it. If you do eventually go that route, don't let them know that's the plan. Just tell them to call you first before making any repairs.

 

[Ryanincc]

Yeah, they're going to charge you the diag regardless. Most likely starting with 1hr at whatever their rate is per hour. Then if they think it will take more time and troubleshooting, they'll call you for approval of another hour or more of time. If they already know you only want to know what's wrong and will then fix it yourself, they might even try to hit you harder on the diag while they have it. If you do eventually go that route, don't let them know that's the plan. Just tell them to call you first before making any repairs.

The first time I took it there for this issue, the previous day the service advisor told me to bring in about 15 breakfast tacos for the mechanics and they would get me fixed up. 3 days later when I got it back is when i got the prognosis of running premium and 2 cans of sea foam. I can only imagine what they'll charge this time after letting me get by the first time off the books.
At this point, Im just praying the local shop has an "AhHA!" moment and will at least know whats wrong by the time I go camping again Labor Day. I've never really had any luck with praying, so more than likely Ill be at the dealership's mercy, asking the in laws to help us out of a financial jam.... again.

 

[eplanajr]

If I can't test the injectors, Ive heard of refurbished ones on ebay. Is it worth buying new, just buy the refurbed, or I think Ive heard you can send your own out somewhere to get fixed. Any of those a preference?

I bought some of those "horrible" ebay injectors a few years ago. 30k miles later those injectors are still out performing their reputation...

I had a loss of power, but not as drastic as you mention. I also the a misfire code.

I bought my injectors from CS Performance on eBay. They came with a 1 year unlimited mileage warranty. I kept my old injectors (I suppose I have 5 that are good). So even if one of my refurbs goes out, I have some spares. I paid a little over $100 for all six.

 

[Ryanincc]

Update. Mechanic says the timing is off. 370$ to find out why by digging into and up to $1200 if having to replace all parts. I had the whole water pump/ front engine replaced about 3 years ago including the timing chain. I stopped giving that shop my business shortly after that job due to part failure and not honoring warranty work so I'm not too surprised their work failed again.

I am wondering if my towing 3000# could mess up the timing, or is it more likely shitty work on top of shitty parts that would cause this again? Last time it got replaced due to a bad oil leak, and also had been don about 6 years ago when the engine was rebuilt. What do you think? Towing or bad luck?

 

[eplanajr]

How exactly did they determine that the timing was off?

 

[Jc12]

kind of makes sense.. did they use a timing light (or newer technology if available..). Would a knock sensor be triggered if your timing were so off?

 

[the great him]

If your timing was off that much to give you the issues you are speaking of it would not just happen all of the sudden. Timing does not one day decide its going to jump and be off... Has anyone been into the motor recently say replacing a water pump or timing belt ect? I don't buy the timing being off for one min. And if I was you I'd grab my truck from said shop its in now and run.... Go take it to a good shop that specializes in Toyotas or the dealer. IF the belt some how managed to jump that much to give the symptoms you are describing then the belt would be chewed up and your truck would not run at all... I have seen these motors be one or two teeth off and still run OK, sure they seam to stumble a little bit and are a little sluggish but run OK otherwise... To be as bad as you are stating you would be throwing a code if it was timing

 

[Rabbit]

I had an issue a few months back with power loss, a low/rough idle, and no check engine light. Every so often it would throw codes P0300 (random cylinder misfire) and P0301 (cylinder 1 misfire). It took me two weeks to diagnose it, but turned out to be an injector. I am a service advisor at a toyota dealer by the way, and using a tech stream, and involving more than 1 of my techs. If your ignition system is good, exhaust flow is good, and fuel system is good, start checking injectors. If i remember right you said you got codes once for 300 and 303. Unplug the #3 injector and see if the idle or anything changes. Mine was still flowing enough fuel to keep me from getting a misfire code all the time, but not flowing enough to run right. If you get a change when unplugging an injector, plug it back in and try another one. It doesnt sound like a real sophisticated way to diagnose, and I could be way off, but its worth a shot.