No Acceleration, 10mpg?

[Ryanincc]

I got a brief call and was unable to ask the detailed questions about the compression, but they seem convinced its one of two things, and will know more today. 1 is the timing, despite the previous testing on that. And 2 is some kind of clutch gear, I think he said, that may have "popped off". The call was very brief but the service advisor did say they don't think its anything catastrophic like the valves, crank or pistons, and laughed when I asked if a new engine needed was in the cards. Thats all I know and expecting a call today after their mechanic that owns the same 3.4L engine will be able to work on it exclusively.

It would seem, after reading in my Haynes troubleshooting section, that their compression findings were false, or the info wasn't given to me properly, because 02SE's questions are by the book, expertly asked, and indicate a main engine component/gasket failure of some sort. The guy although very nice, is really good at getting off the phone quickly, and hard to get on the phone, so next call I will try to be better prepared.

Besides getting sick over this, Ive rekindled a long forgotten respect for one car families. Its been chaotic to say the least with school starting with the kids, wife having to pick up a second job to keep the same hours, and my own work/responsibilities... never mind the 2 possibly 3 camping trips with the popup lost.

 

[Ryanincc]

Just left the dealership after they asked me to come by so they could explain what's causing my problems. I understand what's wrong but it's difficult to explain. I asked the service advisor to write it down and he wrote "timing belt crank gear and "keyway" stripped. Causing timing to be off". They are unsure what caused the the track inside the gear and the little notch on the end of the crank that matches up to have been damaged. I suspect its when the harmonizer bolt let go and damaged the whole engine requiring the rebuild 30k miles ago and it just wasn't checked... Finally catching up with me. Price tag to replace the gear, chain and the keyway strip is right at $1200. Could be worse but I'm not happy about it. I seem to have gotten one of the few "lemons" that won't make it to 200k without major failures. But my high opinion of 4Runners has not changed.

I've never seen what the front of the engine looks like with it apart before. Sure seems like a high stress area for just a notch to keep the timing gears correct.

 

[02SE]

Just left the dealership after they asked me to come by so they could explain what's causing my problems. I understand what's wrong but it's difficult to explain. I asked the service advisor to write it down and he wrote "timing belt crank gear and "keyway" stripped. Causing timing to be off". They are unsure what caused the the track inside the gear and the little notch on the end of the crank that matches up to have been damaged. I suspect its when the harmonizer bolt let go and damaged the whole engine requiring the rebuild 30k miles ago and it just wasn't checked... Finally catching up with me. Price tag to replace the gear, chain and the keyway strip is right at $1200. Could be worse but I'm not happy about it. I seem to have gotten one of the few "lemons" that won't make it to 200k without major failures. But my high opinion of 4Runners has not changed.

I've never seen what the front of the engine looks like with it apart before. Sure seems like a high stress area for just a notch to keep the timing gears correct.

The woodruff key and/or keyway in the crank become damaged when the crank bolt isn't properly torqued. That would really only happen during a timing belt change, or an improperly done engine rebuild. If the crank bolt loosens, it is no longer applying the proper clamping force to the harmonic balancer, timing gear, etc.

When they are no longer tightened in place, those components can move on the crankshaft. Eventually that movement can damage the crankshaft, harmonic balancer, woodruff key, keyway, timing gear, etc.



In your case it sounds like a timing belt change wasn't performed properly, which lead to the crank bolt coming loose. Which was the reason for the engine rebuild. Then for some reason, it wasn't fixed properly during the rebuild, leading to the situation you have now.

If you have any recourse with the engine re-builder, I'd start there. Of course if they are so incompetent that they let their work leave when it obviously wasn't fixed properly, then you probably don't want them messing with it further.

 

[Ryanincc]

The woodruff key and/or keyway in the crank become damaged when the crank bolt isn't properly torqued. That would really only happen during a timing belt change, or an improperly done engine rebuild. If the crank bolt loosens, it is no longer applying the proper clamping force to the harmonic balancer, timing gear, etc.

When they are no longer tightened in place, those components can move on the crankshaft. Eventually that movement can damage the crankshaft, harmonic balancer, woodruff key, keyway, timing gear, etc.

That makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

In your case it sounds like a timing belt change wasn't performed properly, which lead to the crank bolt coming loose. Which was the reason for the engine rebuild. Then for some reason, it wasn't fixed properly during the rebuild, leading to the situation you have now.

For the engine rebuild, about a year after I bought it, I was told the bolt that holds the harmonic balancer came loose and essentially the engine "ate itself". That shop had been screwing me over for a few years at that point so Im not surprised they explained it wrong. I don't remember a timing belt change being done on the Carfax and I hadn't done it prior to that, but still doesn't surprise me. The timing belt was also done 2-3 years after the rebuild at a different shop and Im still not surprised they did it wrong as well. What I am baffled about is why my local shop that I go to now, that checked the timing last week, said it all looked fine. IIRC, the dealership said I was at least 2 teeth off. They shop said they took the engine front apart. So, now I wonder if I need to find a fourth shop to my bigger repairs with. Unless I am misunderstanding the work that they did. I could understand if they missed the stripped gear and keyway, but the timing should have been obvious.

If you have any recourse with the engine re-builder, I'd start there. Of course if they are so incompetent that they let their work leave when it obviously wasn't fixed properly, then you probably don't want them messing with it further.

I doubt any recourse is available and I really would rather not have to cross paths with the shop again anyway.

02SE, do you have any tips on finding a good shop? Unless you think the shop I use could have missed the timing by something other than incompetence or half-ass work? Im considering just using the dealership now, given my "luck" with mechanics in my town. Thanks again, for taking the time with my issue.

On a side note, the in laws said they want to trade the Escape in instead of mine so looks like Ill be keeping mine for quite some time in the future.

 

[02SE]

I doubt any recourse is available and I really would rather not have to cross paths with the shop again anyway.

02SE, do you have any tips on finding a good shop? Unless you think the shop I use could have missed the timing by something other than incompetence or half-ass work? Im considering just using the dealership now, given my "luck" with mechanics in my town. Thanks again, for taking the time with my issue.

On a side note, the in laws said they want to trade the Escape in instead of mine so looks like Ill be keeping mine for quite some time in the future.

Unfortunately, I don't know anyone with a shop in the Corpus Christi area. You could check with the BBB, (Better Business Bureau) for complaints against shops. Social Media seems to be a popular place for people to praise or complain about a particular Business.

"Yelp" is an online review site, maybe check out any prospective business there.

As for the shop that did the "rebuild", I can't conceive of any possible way except incompetence, that you ended up with the job you did.

If the crankshaft is damaged, it will need to come out to be fixed, or replaced. Make sure they use a new crank bolt, and that it's torqued to 217 lbf∙ft.

If the Dealership will fix it properly, replacing or fixing parts as necessary, they should be able to do a decent job. Their work should be warranted for a period of time too.

 

[Ryanincc]

Unfortunately, I don't know anyone with a shop in the Corpus Christi area. You could check with the BBB, (Better Business Bureau) for complaints against shops. Social Media seems to be a popular place for people to praise or complain about a particular Business.

"Yelp" is an online review site, maybe check out any prospective business there.

As for the shop that did the "rebuild", I can't conceive of any possible way except incompetence, that you ended up with the job you did.

If the crankshaft is damaged, it will need to come out to be fixed, or replaced. Make sure they use a new crank bolt, and that it's torqued to 217 lbf∙ft.

If the Dealership will fix it properly, replacing or fixing parts as necessary, they should be able to do a decent job. Their work should be warranted for a period of time too.

The crankshaft was replaced with the engine rebuild. Could it be damaged since then? The dealership thinks the engine will be tip-top when they finish it up today. Even better since the timing cover IIRC was leaking before. And they mentioned that the ticking sound from the engine would be fixed as well. I forget how he explained that one. I am still curious about the low compression from before as well. As I understand it, the timing wouldn't effect compression.

I remember when the rebuild was necessary, the shop could have done a used engine replacement for about $600 more IIRC. I chose the original, not for price, I just figured it would be more reliable. I guess Ill always have to wonder if I made the wrong decision. Then again, the shop that did it sucked so there probably wasn't a right decision.

Thanks for the tips on a new shop. I forgot about yelp, et al. Seems that when it comes to reviews, its the bad ones that really prompt someone to take the time to write one. I just remembered my wife has a membership to angieslist. That may prove to be useful yet. Ill look into your suggestions so I can have a shop ready if I have another big job. Thank you.

 

[02SE]

The crankshaft was replaced with the engine rebuild. Could it be damaged since then?

I'm just basing my comments on what you said they told you previously.

Just left the dealership after they asked me to come by so they could explain what's causing my problems. I understand what's wrong but it's difficult to explain. I asked the service advisor to write it down and he wrote "timing belt crank gear and "keyway" stripped. Causing timing to be off". They are unsure what caused the the track inside the gear and the little notch on the end of the crank that matches up to have been damaged.

Since I'm not there to inspect parts personally, I can only respond to what you have posted. Based on what you posted, the crankshaft is indeed damaged still, or again, depending on whether it was actually replaced in the rebuild.

Anyway, it's getting busy in the Pit here at the US Nationals, So I won't have much time to reply now through next Tuesday.

Good luck.

 

[Ryanincc]

I'm just basing my comments on what you said they told you previously.

Since I'm not there to inspect parts personally, I can only respond to what you have posted. Based on what you posted, the crankshaft is indeed damaged still, or again, depending on whether it was actually replaced in the rebuild.

Anyway, it's getting busy in the Pit here at the US Nationals, So I won't have much time to reply now through next Tuesday.

Good luck.

Thanks again for all you time and help. I really appreciate it! Im going to have to google what Nationals your at. Have fun!

 

[Kenworth]

Nhra drag race, I think Indy

 

[Ryanincc]

Nhra drag race, I think Indy

HAHA. I thought he wrote that he was IN Pit i.e. Pittsburg, not IN THE Pit, and the US Nationals for gymnastics is going on now there. NHRA makes a lot more sense.

 

[Kenworth]

U find your problem yet?

 

[sterbenlicht]

U find your problem yet?

What he said.

Because I'm ready to hear that you have your truck back and that it's driving great.

 

[02SE]

HAHA. NHRA makes a lot more sense.

NHRA 60th US Nationals it is.

On second thought, I'll skip the photo.

 

[jgue467]

Bevo


Bevo's Not Cheap.

 

[Ryanincc]

What he said.

Because I'm ready to hear that you have your truck back and that it's driving great.

My bad. I didn't know there was an audience for the end result after $1181 at the dealership yesterday.

I had completely forgotten how peppy my truck was supposed to be. Acceleration is very awesome, city gas mileage back up to 16 according to the UltraGauge over a couple quick errands. It was 9 over a half tank when I turned it in. Its hard to tell for sure, but I think its been lacking for longer than the 6 months i previously thought. Just night and day difference and I would say its fun to drive again. We are going camping today, finally after missing 2 trips, so Ill get to test the towing power and MPG over an hour drive with our 3500# popup. Last trip, almost two months ago, was a struggle and got 10mpg.

 

[sterbenlicht]

My bad. I didn't know there was an audience for the end result after $1181 at the dealership yesterday.

I had completely forgotten how peppy my truck was supposed to be. Acceleration is very awesome, city gas mileage back up to 16 according to the UltraGauge over a couple quick errands. It was 9 over a half tank when I turned it in. Its hard to tell for sure, but I think its been lacking for longer than the 6 months i previously thought. Just night and day difference and I would say its fun to drive again. We are going camping today, finally after missing 2 trips, so Ill get to test the towing power and MPG over an hour drive with our 3500# popup. Last trip, almost two months ago, was a struggle and got 10mpg.

That's awesome man, glad to hear it's doing well.

 

[BrianSD_42]

$1181 at the dealership yesterday.

I actually don't think that is a terrible end result. If they wanted to roll you / f u for cash I'm sure they could have claimed a lot more.

There was one horror story where from just a few months ago where a guy had some problems that required significant troubleshooting and the dealer charged him over $2k for all the troubleshooting AND they didn't fix it AND they replaced very few parts.

Out the door at only a grand ... Could have been worse if they were shady.

 

[Ryanincc]

I actually don't think that is a terrible end result. If they wanted to roll you / f u for cash I'm sure they could have claimed a lot more.

There was one horror story where from just a few months ago where a guy had some problems that required significant troubleshooting and the dealer charged him over $2k for all the troubleshooting AND they didn't fix it AND they replaced very few parts.

Out the door at only a grand ... Could have been worse if they were shady.

Absoutely they were cool with me. Even had a spare harmonic balancer they were going to give me if they couldn't fix mine. Ill probably go back to them for most of my work now because they really treated me right.

 

[Ryanincc]

On second thought, I'll skip the photo.

You certainly have had me curious... so much so Id like to insist you show what its like in the pits . Hope you guys did well!