no crank mystery

[St Runner]

The starting circuit is the same in the engine bay for both the auto and manual, the auto just grounds out in the park/neutral switch and the manual grounds out in the clutch switch. That 4th wire on the 98 clutch switch is the one you have to find in the wiring diagrams. Your 97 park neutral switch only has the one wire running out, the 98 probably has two. Your 98 starting circuit needs that extra wire to run.

 

[brillo_76]

That's the connector that got me. It's the key contacts. If the dimples on the contacts are gone they wont start. May not be your issue but worth mentioning when troubleshooting start issues.

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[sleepydad]

The starting circuit is the same in the engine bay for both the auto and manual, the auto just grounds out in the park/neutral switch and the manual grounds out in the clutch switch. That 4th wire on the 98 clutch switch is the one you have to find in the wiring diagrams. Your 97 park neutral switch only has the one wire running out, the 98 probably has two. Your 98 starting circuit needs that extra wire to run.

97 on left, the grey connector on the 10 pin is missing a white/red in 10 spot
<a href="https://imgur.com/sWvKXXK"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/sWvKXXKl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

and the 98 body is missing a yellow/green in the 3 spot
<a href="https://imgur.com/TrX9MKA"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/TrX9MKAl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

there is also a pink blue, grey blue on the other body connector that is missing from the 97
<a href="https://imgur.com/jnBU0uw"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/jnBU0uwl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

anything ring a bell? or am I looking in the wrong place?

 

[19963.4lsr5]

When I get to work in the morning I’ll compare the two wiring diagrams.

Is the 98 drawing a copy of a wiring manual or something off the Internet. A lot of internet service manuals are for the 01 and 02.


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[brillo_76]

Sleepy dad yes the 1998 is slightly different from the 1997 as the 98 has another 7.5 amp fuse in the circuit.


Might make it easier to print them both out so you can see the differences. Slight but a few. Any wire that says M/T doesn't pertain to you just like this clutch cancel start is not there.

St2 is fused in the 98 then jumped into one side of the park neutral switch.

Where in 1997 st2 goes directly to the starter relay.


Since it's a 97 powertrain into a 98 chassis. The wiring is all 1998.


So with this being said. Did you hook everything up with the 1998 wiring and ECU. Park neutral switch etc all 1998?

At a quick glance the park neutral switch has one wire in and one wire out.


We do not have a alarm system etc in the mix on this rig do we. If so try powering it down or unplugging it..

I am just offering some thoughts and you may have done this.

You could also probably jumper the park neutral safety switch to see if a switch happened to have failed.







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[St Runner]

Not ringing a bell but I never had to do wiring on a 98 and I can't remember anything past last week anyways. If you can find the page for the starting circuit on the 98 that should give you the wire color and where it runs to

 

[sleepydad]

When I get to work in the morning I’ll compare the two wiring diagrams.

Is the 98 drawing a copy of a wiring manual or something off the Internet. A lot of internet service manuals are for the 01 and 02.

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[MENTION=95936]heat[/MENTION] was nice enough to put it into a dropbox out there. I'm guessing it's for a 98.

Yes I have the complete 99-02 version of the FSM so it's not helping me on this stuff.

 

[heat]

[MENTION=95936]heat[/MENTION] was nice enough to put it into a dropbox out there. I'm guessing it's for a 98.

Yes I have the complete 99-02 version of the FSM so it's not helping me on this stuff.

Just passing along a (someone else's) link.
98 manuals

 

[sleepydad]

Sleepy dad yes the 1998 is slightly different from the 1997 as the 98 has another 7.5 amp fuse in the circuit.


Might make it easier to print them both out so you can see the differences. Slight but a few. Any wire that says M/T doesn't pertain to you just like this clutch cancel start is not there.

St2 is fused in the 98 then jumped into one side of the park neutral switch.

Where in 1997 st2 goes directly to the starter relay.

Since it's a 97 powertrain into a 98 chassis. The wiring is all 1998.

97 powertrain + 97 engine wire harness. body wire all 1998.

So with this being said. Did you hook everything up with the 1998 wiring and ECU. Park neutral switch etc all 1998?

yes the only differences I noted were in the pics I posted

At a quick glance the park neutral switch has one wire in and one wire out.

We do not have a alarm system etc in the mix on this rig do we. If so try powering it down or unplugging it..

No this 1998 does not even have remote entry, just bare bones base.

I am just offering some thoughts and you may have done this.

You could also probably jumper the park neutral safety switch to see if a switch happened to have failed.

How would I jump the park neutral safety switch?

I'm kind of freaked out by all the wires but I'm willing to try stuff

 

[brillo_76]

OK. Making a lot more sense. You transplanted a 1997 engine with a 1997 Engine harness into a 1998 Chassis.. Then trying to use the 1998 Body harness and ECU to run this rig.

I have never done engine swaps that way. I always stuck with the Chassis wiring and all harnesses with the power train parts in Toyotas. Even when I swapped an engine on a 1991 Camry into a 1990 Camry. I kept the 1990 wiring on the engine.

Almost always a few changes between model years and sometimes even accessories.

I miss the old years in the 80's the rigs only had one harness for all models so you could add the accessories that were missing the base models etc as they all used the same harness and the plugs were all there..


For Sleepy Dad focus on the Engine harness and the ECU see what is different as you are probably use one or 2 wires missing or different.


As for the next swap it maybe best to swap the engine harness to match the chassis so your not pulling your hair out like you are now.

I was thinking you swapped the transmission as well as they maybe differences on that was well but that is part of the engine harness. :drum:

 

[sleepydad]

OK. Making a lot more sense. You transplanted a 1997 engine with a 1997 Engine harness into a 1998 Chassis.. Then trying to use the 1998 Body harness and ECU to run this rig.

I have never done engine swaps that way. I always stuck with the Chassis wiring and all harnesses with the power train parts in Toyotas. Even when I swapped an engine on a 1991 Camry into a 1990 Camry. I kept the 1990 wiring on the engine.

Almost always a few changes between model years and sometimes even accessories.

I miss the old years in the 80's the rigs only had one harness for all models so you could add the accessories that were missing the base models etc as they all used the same harness and the plugs were all there..


For Sleepy Dad focus on the Engine harness and the ECU see what is different as you are probably use one or 2 wires missing or different.


As for the next swap it maybe best to swap the engine harness to match the chassis so your not pulling your hair out like you are now.

I was thinking you swapped the transmission as well as they maybe differences on that was well but that is part of the engine harness. :drum:

Yea I'm pulling my hair out, the little I have left.

I went thru the E9, E10, E11, E12 and I don't see any differences. The only thing I do see is they changed one of the Symbols, but the wire color and the condition, STD Voltages are the same. so just a document change.

it has to be in the II1 and II3 plugs
<a href="https://imgur.com/bo9LmNj"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/bo9LmNj.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a><a href="https://imgur.com/4oQR5iw"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/4oQR5iw.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

if I could find out what those plugs are supposed to be plugged into for each year? 97,98 I think that would make things work? I think.

where does a guy find the wire diagrams? do you have to buy the old school paper backs or is there a site someplace where you can access them?

 

[brillo_76]

Yea I'm pulling my hair out, the little I have left.



I went thru the E9, E10, E11, E12 and I don't see any differences. The only thing I do see is they changed one of the Symbols, but the wire color and the condition, STD Voltages are the same. so just a document change.



it has to be in the II1 and II3 plugs

<a href="https://imgur.com/bo9LmNj"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/bo9LmNj.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a><a href="https://imgur.com/4oQR5iw"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/4oQR5iw.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>



if I could find out what those plugs are supposed to be plugged into for each year? 97,98 I think that would make things work? I think.



where does a guy find the wire diagrams? do you have to buy the old school paper backs or is there a site someplace where you can access them?

The wiring diagrams are in the complete EWDs.

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[19963.4lsr5]

Yea I'm pulling my hair out, the little I have left.

I went thru the E9, E10, E11, E12 and I don't see any differences. The only thing I do see is they changed one of the Symbols, but the wire color and the condition, STD Voltages are the same. so just a document change.

it has to be in the II1 and II3 plugs
<a href="https://imgur.com/bo9LmNj"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/bo9LmNj.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a><a href="https://imgur.com/4oQR5iw"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/4oQR5iw.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

if I could find out what those plugs are supposed to be plugged into for each year? 97,98 I think that would make things work? I think.

where does a guy find the wire diagrams? do you have to buy the old school paper backs or is there a site someplace where you can access them?

Durk sent me a copy for my 97. He may have a 98 also.


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[sleepydad]

Durk sent me a copy for my 97. He may have a 98 also.


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I have this one I made today


Toyota 1997 4Runner Electrical Wiring Diagram (EWD277U)

Toyota 1997 4Runner Electrical Wiring Diagram (EWD277U).pdf - Google Drive

and the same deal for 1998

Toyota 1998 4Runner Repair Manual (EWD319U).pdf - Google Drive

I combined everything into one pdf to make it impossible to find things... yes perfect sleepydad.

I wish I took electrical engineering back in college instead of get my minor in geology...

so It seem like II1 on the 10th pin wants the "from starter relay"? I think?

 

[brillo_76]

I have this one I made today


Toyota 1997 4Runner Electrical Wiring Diagram (EWD277U)

Toyota 1997 4Runner Electrical Wiring Diagram (EWD277U).pdf - Google Drive

and the same deal for 1998

Toyota 1998 4Runner Repair Manual (EWD319U).pdf - Google Drive

I combined everything into one pdf to make it impossible to find things... yes perfect sleepydad.

I wish I took electrical engineering back in college instead of get my minor in geology...

so It seem like II1 on the 10th pin wants the "from starter relay"? I think?

LOL.. I am an Electrical Engineer I can read them.

 

[brillo_76]

So you are thinking the 2 Glove Box connections II2 and II3 have something different from 1997 to 1998?

I always thought those were just engine harness disconnects. As with the other plugs for the engine harness that go directly to the ECU..

I see in the morning here on my parts rig to see if these wires change colors when they go through that glove box connector.

As I have the dash 95% out its easy to look at those plugs and verify.

I never looked that closely at those connectors so we shall see.

 

[sleepydad]

So you are thinking the 2 Glove Box connections II2 and II3 have something different from 1997 to 1998?

I always thought those were just engine harness disconnects. As with the other plugs for the engine harness that go directly to the ECU..

I see in the morning here on my parts rig to see if these wires change colors when they go through that glove box connector.

As I have the dash 95% out its easy to look at those plugs and verify.

I never looked that closely at those connectors so we shall see.

in this case because they are the 97 from engine harness the plugs are Version 1997. the connections are version 1998.

physically comparing the V97 vs V98 and connector type

1997 II1 dark grey -> 1998 II1 dark grey
Pin 1 black/white->Pin 1 black/red *mismatch color
Pin 2 violet->Pin 2 violet
Pin 3 yellow/green->Pin 3 empty *mismatch
pin 4 light green->pin 4 light green
pin 5 black/yellow->pin 5 black/yellow
pin 6 black->pin 6 black/white *mismatch color
pin 7 black/blue->pin 7 black/blue
pin 8 red/blue->pin 8 red/blue
pin 9 red/yellow->pin 9 red/yellow
pin 10 empty->pin 10 white/red *mismatch color

1997 II3 White ->1998 II3 White
Pin 1 violet/red->Pin 1 violet/red
Pin 2 light green->light green
Pin 3 black/red->black *mismatch color
Pin 4 blue/yellow->blue/yellow
Pin 5 white/red->yellow *mismatch color
Pin 6 red/green->red/green
Pin 7 white/black->white/black
Pin 8 green/black->green/black
Pin 9 black/red->black/red
Pin 10 blue/red->blue/red
Pin 11 empty ->green/red *mismatch
Pin 12 pink/black -> rest down match fine
Pin 13 black/yellow
Pin 14 red/yellow
Pin 15 brown/red
Pin 16 green/red
Pin 17 white/blue
Pin 18 black
Pin 19 pink/blue
Pin 20 white/blue
Pin 21 green/yellow
Pin 22 green/black
Pin 23 brown
Pin 24 yellow black
Pin 25 green white
Pin 26 yellow red

so just the mismatch is

1997 II1 dark grey -> 1998 II1 dark grey
Pin 1 black/white->Pin 1 black/red *mismatch color
Pin 3 yellow/green->Pin 3 empty *mismatch
pin 6 black->pin 6 black/white *mismatch color
pin 10 empty->pin 10 white/red *mismatch

1997 II3 White ->1998 II3 White
Pin 3 black/red->black *mismatch color
Pin 5 white/red->yellow *mismatch color
Pin 11 empty ->green/red *mismatch

 

[brillo_76]

Parts rig 98

Looks to me like all the colors match. I know the small connections do and It sure looks like the large ones do too.


Verify with your 98 engine harness and if they do. It maybe best to swap that engine harness over to the 98.

I try to check tonight thoughly on that large connector. I just out of time now.

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[St Runner]

97 Pin 3 II3 white Starting circuit for the 97 is all B/R So it comes out of the 97 engine harness B/R and then goes black to the 98. If you can find the color for the starting circuit on the 98 you might be able to match them up. FYI the wiring foe the 97 is unique to itself. Even the auto and manual of 97 have different wiring even though a lot of it lines up pin placement and color wise

 

[St Runner]

I also agree if you have the 98 engine harness that might be the easiest way to solve this