North American diesels? Is Toyota listening here?

[bobbarker]

Is there any talk of the D4D motors making it into the NA T4Rs at all? Does anyone else really want a diesel like I do?

These things probably outsell any other motor in these trucks anywhere else in the world. Relatives of mine in South America have always had a diesel Toyota truck of some sort. Land Cruiser Prados are all diesels in Europe and Africa from what I've seen. VW and Audi TDIs, BMW and Mercedes diesels are gaining more and more traction in the US and Canadian markets, and the Big 3 sell tons of diesels in their full-sized trucks. Their torque and fuel economy just can't be denied.

I realize Toyota is pushing their hybrid and other technologies, but I feel like the latest diesel offerings from Toyota could be US legal fairly simply, and would be more applicable to a body on frame truck than some hybrid powertrain.

Thoughts or other rumors heard?

 

[nighthawk]

I'd love to see the Toyota diesels be offered here. I have a Rav4 and I really wish it was the Euro diesel model with the 6 spd manual. If they put that combo into a 4Runner here, that would be totally awesome.

 

[hammersc]

There definitely seems to be some momentum gaining for diesel engines in the states. I drove the volkswagen tdi a few times this year on test drives and it's hard to ignore it's strengths, as long as we (the US) don't overtax diesel fuel. My father laughed at me when I asked him to go with me to test drive a diesel compact car but afterwards he wasn't laughing he was applauding. I realize a 4runner diesel will need more cc, etc than that peoplewagon motor, but you see where I'm going with this. A very strong torque curve with increased fuel efficiency and towing power galore - and all that combined with rugged 4runner looks and capability = a very desireable truck and one I would likely buy.

 

[M1911]

Nope, no Toyota diesels in the works for USA. Toyota had been working on a diesel engine for the Tundra. Similarly, GM and Ford had been working on diesel engines for their light duty pickups. With the drop in fuel prices, all three have dropped their light duty diesel programs. Btw, VW and BMW are heavily subsidizing their diesel vehicles. Clean diesel engines are very expensive.

If gas goes back to $4/gal, we might see it.

I'd love to see a diesel engine in the new 4Runner, but it just isn't going to happen in the near future.

 

[marcz62]

CAFE standards

I don't know if they still call it that or not. But wouldn't a diesel make overall company look better on paper by increasing their over all MPG?

 

[eskimochaos]

I don't know if they still call it that or not. But wouldn't a diesel make overall company look better on paper by increasing their over all MPG?

Its all a manipulation of statistics/numbers that makes an average/ignorant consumer view one company as more fuel efficient than another.

Ford played ads last year stating they have the most fuel efficient offering of cars. The average consumer says wow, their trucks are fuel efficient too; however, Ford was only referring to their sedans etc etc.

Furthermore, the average consumer doesnt read the fine print on the bottom of the commercial when it says "4cly models onlt" etc etc.

 

[M1911]

It is unclear yet just what the revised CAFE standards are going to do. One thing to realize is that the CAFE standards are based on the unmodified EPA mpg test results, and are thus significantly higher than the EPA ratings that you see on the sticker.

In 2008, the EPA started applying an adjustment factor of 5-25% to the sticker ratings to more accurately reflect real-world mileage. The CAFE standards are computed without this 5-25% reduction.

 

[004Gunner]

Does anyone else really want a diesel like I do?

If a diesel 4Runner came out anytime soon, I would sell my left nut to be able to afford one! Apparently Toyota is about the only manufacturer not getting into the NA diesel market. My next vehicle will be a diesel Nissan Maxima unless a diesel 4Runner comes out. I have yet to see the diesel 3 series on the road. . .

 

[hammersc]

Supposedly the diesel 335d has too much torque - multiple auto magazines, both print and electronic, agree. A set of rear tires gone in like 10k mi I hear.

 

[bobbarker]

If a diesel 4Runner came out anytime soon, I would sell my left nut to be able to afford one! Apparently Toyota is about the only manufacturer not getting into the NA diesel market. My next vehicle will be a diesel Nissan Maxima unless a diesel 4Runner comes out. I have yet to see the diesel 3 series on the road. . .

Weird...I haven't been following Nissan too much lately and didn't know they were going to bring diesels to the US. I'd be slightly interested in an Xterra diesel, too, but it's no 4Runner. Isn't there even buzz about Honda bringing some over, perhaps coupled with their hybrid system?

 

[JohnsD90]

Here's what i have concluded about diesels coming to america. The American Government doesnt want them here because they are actually FUEL EFFICENT and there for they would lose more money. And the american public is convinced that diesels are bad but in all actualality they get 20%-70% better gas mileage than gasoline, and can be converted to run on biodiesel which which has 1/4 of the C02 emmsions. And the only company pushing for the diesels to get in this country is volkswagon.

 

[JohnsD90]

Supposedly the diesel 335d has too much torque - multiple auto magazines, both print and electronic, agree. A set of rear tires gone in like 10k mi I hear.

no such thing as too much torque, that means the gearbox its mated to was crappy

 

[GatorGreg]

Does anyone else really want a diesel like I do?

37% of the respondents to this old poll I started last year said they wanted the diesel:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?t=40235

 

[bobbarker]

37% of the respondents to this old poll I started last year said they wanted the diesel:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?t=40235

It only makes sense. The best of both worlds. V8 torque with elevated fuel economy. But not only that, increased engine longevity. Would more than likely add a few thousand to the cost of the truck, however.

 

[JohnsD90]

It only makes sense. The best of both worlds. V8 torque with elevated fuel economy. But not only that, increased engine longevity. Would more than likely add a few thousand to the cost of the truck, however.

Yet the gas motor eslewhere is a couple thousand more than the diesel

 

[M1911]

Here's what i have concluded about diesels coming to america. The American Government doesnt want them here because they are actually FUEL EFFICENT and there for they would lose more money.

There have been several issues. First, until recently, US diesel fuel had too much sulfur for the modern, high-pressure diesel fuel systems.

Second, while we now have the required ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel, our diesel fuel still has too low (and too inconsistent) cetane ratings.

Third, EPA and CARB have pushed ridiculously stringent emissions ratings. Euro diesels won't meet these emissions ratings without additional emissions equipment, and the lower cetane ratings requires changes as well. The equipment and tuning required to meet these emissions ratings reduces fuel economy.

Fourth, diesel engines cost at least $1000 more than equivalent gas engines to begin with. The added emissions gear adds another $1000+ in cost.

Fifth, last year diesel fuel cost 30% than gas. At that time there was no economic incentive for a diesel vehicle.

And the american public is convinced that diesels are bad but in all actualality they get 20%-70% better gas mileage than gasoline, and can be converted to run on biodiesel which which has 1/4 of the C02 emmsions.

Much of that can be traced back to crappy GM diesels back in the late 70s. And no, you won't get anywhere near 70% better mileage. 25% better is more realistic. And no, modern diesels can't run on backyard biodiesel. You'll ruin your fuel system that way. New direct-injection, series-turbocharged gas engines like the Ford Ecoboost may reduce this advantage and still cost less than diesel engines.

And the only company pushing for the diesels to get in this country is volkswagon.

Audi, VW, Mercedes, and BMW all offer diesels in the US.

 

[marcz62]

Thanks

Thanks for clairifing this. I don't know much about diesels myself, except for the fact that the economics of owning one just doesn't add up. At least for right now. I have thought about buying a diesel sprinter for my company, but after talking to lots of people and seeing all of the additional expenses I would incure, I am just going to stick with my 4runner (V6) and continue to pull a trailer.
I hate to change the subject. But does anyone here pull a trailer on a constant basis? My trailer is a fairly small one, only 5' x 10' long, but when I pull the trailer I seem to never be able to put on the cruise control. I wonder if a V8 would do any better. I am getting an average of 17.5 mpg though. If any of you have a V8 what kind of mileage do you get with a trailer? Thanks.:driving:

 

[JohnsD90]

There have been several issues. First, until recently, US diesel fuel had too much sulfur for the modern, high-pressure diesel fuel systems.

Second, while we now have the required ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel, our diesel fuel still has too low (and too inconsistent) cetane ratings.

Third, EPA and CARB have pushed ridiculously stringent emissions ratings. Euro diesels won't meet these emissions ratings without additional emissions equipment, and the lower cetane ratings requires changes as well. The equipment and tuning required to meet these emissions ratings reduces fuel economy.

Fourth, diesel engines cost at least $1000 more than equivalent gas engines to begin with. The added emissions gear adds another $1000+ in cost.

Fifth, last year diesel fuel cost 30% than gas. At that time there was no economic incentive for a diesel vehicle.


Much of that can be traced back to crappy GM diesels back in the late 70s. And no, you won't get anywhere near 70% better mileage. 25% better is more realistic. And no, modern diesels can't run on backyard biodiesel. You'll ruin your fuel system that way. New direct-injection, series-turbocharged gas engines like the Ford Ecoboost may reduce this advantage and still cost less than diesel engines.


Audi, VW, Mercedes, and BMW all offer diesels in the US.

First off my 2000 VW Jetta TDI gets about 49mpg average and my sisters 2001 VW Jetta 1.8t gets about 27mpg, both are stick, so tell me how nearly double the 1.8t fuel economy (which is about 92% better) how that isnt 70% better? about 5 years ago gas and diesel were the same price and now they are to. I know those other German companies are bringing them here i meant VW has never stopped bringing them and is in the front of the crowd for diesel. Also When you have a 3.9l V8 gets average 16 mpg and a 2.5l TD engine averaging 28mpg how that isnt more efficent when both are in the same SUV and transmission?

 

[charlier180]

Has anyone here looked at the sales figures for the 4Runner this year????
YTD sales of the 4Runner are 11,457 units. July '09 sales were only 1,055 units compared to almost 3 TIMES that many last year (3,107). http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/document/July_2009_PR_Sales_Chart.pdf

Figures like that indicate that the 4Runner has or is soon to become a "nitch" vehicle with sales so very, low.
One has to wonder if the next generation 4Runner will be the last generation 4Runner?
Unless Toyota offers fuel efficient engine choices I fear the 4Runner will not have a very bright future.

BTW, last month VW sold 2,415 vehicles with DIESEL engines here in the USA.
Those vehicles included the Jetta Sportwagon, Jetta sedan and the Touareg TDI SUV.
Hmmmm, some American consumers are buying diesel equipped vehicles. http://media.vw.com/index.php?s=43&item=477

 

[M1911]

First off my 2000 VW Jetta TDI gets about 49mpg average and my sisters 2001 VW Jetta 1.8t gets about 27mpg, both are stick, so tell me how nearly double the 1.8t fuel economy (which is about 92% better) how that isnt 70% better?

That is an apples-to-oranges comparison. The 1.8t was a performance engine, with far, far higher horsepower than the TDI of that period. Comparing the 1.8t with 180 horsepower to the 90 hp TDI is not a valid comparison.

about 5 years ago gas and diesel were the same price and now they are to.

MSRP is not directly related to the production cost. VW is swallowing much of the extra production cost of the diesel engine.

I know those other German companies are bringing them here i meant VW has never stopped bringing them and is in the front of the crowd for diesel.

VW did stop bringing diesels here for a couple years.

Also When you have a 3.9l V8 gets average 16 mpg and a 2.5l TD engine averaging 28mpg how that isnt more efficent when both are in the same SUV and transmission?

Huh? 1) I never said that diesels aren't more efficient than equivalent gas engines. They are. 2) A 3.9l gas V8 is in no way an equivalent engine to a 2.5l diesel.

You are mistaken if you think I'm not a diesel fan. I am. I'd much rather have a diesel in my 4Runner if it was available.

A year ago, when diesel fuel cost 30% more than gas, paying a couple thousand more for a diesel engine that would get 30% better mileage than a gas engine didn't make a lot of economic sense. It does now.